X Dark Matters Spaces interview — 4 Sep 2025
https://x.com/DarkMattersHost
Compiled from JIBLE 6.0 Q&A extracts (no YouTube caption file; the live was on X).
Always verify against the original Spaces recording if you have it.

Q1: Do you have any safety updates or suggestions heading into winter?
A: If there's snow, just don't even go. Don't put yourself at risk. That's a statement of safety more than anything. As we move into the winter months, I think some of the southern states actually become more palatable. The same warning goes to the southern states--if it's too hot out, just don't go. Always take somebody with you and make sure you have all the ten essentials.

Q2: You said that you wrote the poem specifically so that AI couldn't solve it, but humans can. In what ways is the poem written to be interpreted by humans and not AI? Like should we be looking for more metaphorically speaking instead of more literally?
A: It's a good question, and I think it's probably the right question to be asking. The way I see it is creating a puzzle for an intellect that dwarfs our own is a paradox. So whether or not I've succeeded in my task is TBD, but time will tell. At its core, I really wanted to design something that embraces the core of what it means to be human. There was an astronomical amount of thought that I put into that aspect of designing the treasure hunt. I don't think it's a good idea for me to divulge the tactics that I used because I think that that gives away too much. And in some ways can actually fuel the ability for AI to progress. So I'll have to punt on that.

Q3: How helpful do you think the book is for your hunt? Do you do need the poem and the book or just the poem?
A: You do not need the book to solve the poem. The book is there for someone who has read the poem and is having trouble for whatever reason. Having the surrounding context of the author can be helpful because I hid the treasure in a place that means something to me. The best way to have that context and understand what's important is to read what I've written. But by no means mandatory--the poem is on the website and can be solved in isolation.

Q4: Is there any chapter that has special meaning?
A: Every chapter has a purpose. I say chapter, [but] it's really more like short stories, kind of anecdotal experiences, but each story has a purpose. I can't think of one in particular that would have zero relevance or importance, but I can think of a few that are relatively more important than the others, but I'm a little reticent to call those out explicitly at this point. Q: More like the ones that are most meaningful to you. A: The Postal Pilgrimage is one of those chapters. Also Poseys on the Road is probably one that comes to mind. Not necessarily core hints per se, more just around a deeper message I was trying to convey no matter how well I did.

Q5: Would you be willing to eliminate a chapter in the book that does not have clues?
A: There are no hints in The Legal Lowdown. It's meant to convey pure legal language and to make sure people understand the rules.

Q6: What can you tell us about this gnarly Niven guy, and maybe why you're so fascinated with him.
A: Oh, you're talking about the rancher from the book. I'm trying to recall which story that's in. Is that the Posey Land, or...it'll come to me. Q: Yeah, he's mentioned a number of times. A: Yeah, he is an interesting character. That's about all I can say.

Q7: Your Quarterhorse that you hid behind was named Meghan. Was that Quarterhorse a Pinto?
A: No, it was not.

Q8: Is the location of the checkpoint somewhere you discovered while hunting for Fenn's treasure?
A: I think that's a little similar to a question that was asked earlier, but I do realize the distinction. It's in an area that is meaningful to me, but it's--I don't think I want to provide any clarity. It's a spot that I've known for quite some time.

Q9: Is the exact location or general area of the checkpoint or the treasure mentioned in the book?
A: There are some some useful chapters that might help you better understand some of the landscapes or general areas. I don't want to go too much into details.

Q10: Regarding the checkpoint, is the time of day important or critical or involved with the checkpoint?
A: For the time of day, I haven't specified either way that that may or may not be important.

Q11: Is the checkpoint the same location you figure out where the treasure is?
A: I'm not going to be providing more clarity on that one yet.

Q12: Can you share which line of the poem the checkpoint is located in?
A: I'm not going to not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q13: Is the checkpoint something that can be discovered by other means than boots on the ground?
A: I don't think I'll clarify to that degree, but I think I mentioned earlier, there is an absolute requirement to be boots on the ground at some point. You are not going to solve the entirety of the treasure hunt from home. But there is a large portion that you can, a significant portion that you can solve at home as well. So there are kind of two components to this, but the checkpoint itself, I haven't specified.

Q14: Were "some people" in your recent [social media] post about 200-footers actually searchers? [re:"some people" having been within 200 ft of the checkpoint"]
A: I haven't specified. I think my statement stands as is.

Q15: You've referred to what the cipher or technical clue refers to, and that's the container. Are you going to release any information as to what the technical clue or cipher is referring to or vice versa?
A: Yeah, just for clarity that the technical clue is not referring to the container. The cipher is. So they're kind of two distinct things. I think if it gets to a point, especially with the technical clue, I think it's just one of those things that is going to leak. Just the nature of it. It will probably spread fairly quickly. I'm very surprised that it's just been relegated to this one person so far, but they've been doing excellent job of keeping a lid on it. But I think it's only a matter of time and at that point it will be pretty obvious to everybody. So I probably won't even need to say anything, but I will when the time comes. And for the cipher, it's probably in the same boat. I think that one's not quite as definitive as the technical clue. But I think people will catch on to that fairly soon as well. And if it gets to a point where it becomes a bit more ubiquitous in knowledge, then I'll, might as well just say something as well. But now is not quite the right time for that.

Q16: What is something about the treasure that you haven't mentioned yet that you've thought maybe you should mention? (Paraphrased)
A: I haven't identified what the container is that the treasure is hidden inside. Mainly because I think it would give AI an edge as time goes on, and that's something I'm trying to avoid, at its core making this a human adventure, which is a bit paradoxical if you think about it. But at this point, I'm just not quite ready to do that. (Paraphrased)

Q17: Is there any facet of using X-ray vision to figure out where the treasure is?
A: There's actually been a number of people that I think has that line of thinking. The only thing that I'll stress here is that you don't need any specialized equipment to find the treasure.

Q18: Is there any tool or equipment needed to locate the treasure before being able to retrieve it?
A: I've mentioned you don't need any specialized equipment, and I guess that begs the question, what is specialized? I would consider X-ray vision goggles to be specialized equipment. But I wouldn't consider like hiking gear to be specialized equipment. Q: [Besides specialized equipment] do you need any tool or equipment to spot the treasure before retrieving it? A: I don't think I'm gonna specify any further, but nothing specialized.

Q19: [About "wasting" vacation days for botg]
A: I will say that going out and being in the areas that I've intended for you to be in are a vital part of the treasure hunt. You will NOT solve this in it's complete entirety from home. It's not possible. But there is a significant portion that can be solved at home that will give you a base level of confidence for you to go and check it out.

Q20: Are there any clues or hints in the poem in a physical location that you have to pay to enter?
A: Land designations and laws and anything that might impact free access is fluid. It's changing. So what I can say is that at the time that the treasure was hidden and at the time that the Netflix series was released, you did not necessarily have to pay. Again, it's a somewhat fluid situation, so I don't want to provide too much more clarity there, but I hope that helps. Q: When you said "necessarily" is that for the entirety of the poem or just parts? A: There are definitely parts of the poem where on the date of the Netflix launch, you did not have to pay.

Q21: Can you be more specific on the fee to enter? Because for example, a lot of people debate going into Yellowstone after hours as a loophole, which is still illegal. The free park days, the Montana conservation pass requires you to pay $5 just to hike or recreate on a lot of state public lands. So trying to get some more clarification on that.
A: I know that people are using the notion of having to pay as a way of reducing the search area. At this point, I'm not willing to provide any further clarity there, but I might consider that in the future.

Q22: Do you have any advice on what searchers should do differently?
A: I think that maybe some people might be focusing too much on, like for instance, oh my gosh, do I have to pay or not? Now, I understand if you're in a financial situation where that might hinder your ability to search certain areas. But I think most of the places in the U.S., the fees are low enough where it's not a complete barrier of entry. But I guess what I'm getting at is I think maybe there's an overemphasis on things like that as opposed to just focusing on solving the poem itself.

Q23: Is the exact location or general area of the checkpoint or the treasure mentioned in the book?
A: There are some some useful chapters that might help you better understand some of the landscapes or general areas. But I don't want to go too much into details.

Q24: As far as the elevation, you said it was below 11,000. Are you going to alter that any time soon?
A: If the treasure has not been found by the time that March of next year rolls around [talks about a potential book-signing event in Tucson], that's probably the venue where I would consider eliminating a state [or] restricting the elevations.

Q25: You've mentioned that solving all the clues in the poem would lead a searcher to an "X marks the spot" or an exact location. How large of an X would that be, like 5 foot by 5 foot, 50 foot by 50 foot or like a football field?
A: If you've solved everything that the poem has to offer, you will have an exact location. You won't, I mean, my gosh, football field, no. Even the size of the average American kitchen would be a little bit on the large side. No, you're looking at a targeted area.

Q26: You said that your map will help guide us. I was just wondering if you would specify which map would help more-- the map in the book or the one on the website, and if it helps guide us just with the land area or through the poem itself.
A: The map displayed on the website is higher resolution and quality and you're able to zoom in better, so it's probably just generally more useful. I did want to make sure that people that might not have internet access and might just have a physical copy of the book that they could have a similar experience. So that's why the map is in two places. I won't provide a heck of a lot of clarity here, but one of the ways that the map may be useful as you're reading the book and I mentioned a location, I tried to call out the vast majority if not all of those locations on the map itself so it's just kind of an easy way for you to get some context to understand what region we're talking about and the general surrounding area. But I think that's all the clarity I'm willing to provide right now.

Q27: The poem and the book are called Beyond the Map's Edge, and you have said that the treasure is hidden within the map you provided for us, not beyond the edge of it. Is there a secondary map you are referring to that the treasure is hidden beyond, or is "beyond the map's edge" more of a metaphor or state of mind or something in these forms?
A: I think all of those statements are correct. There is no secondary map. The treasure is hidden within the boundaries that are in the map that I published. You don't need a map that covers a larger space in order to find the treasure. And the treasure is definitely hidden within the bounds of that map.

Q28: On the map on the website, the locations that are specifically called out, do those have any significance on where the treasure could be located? Possibly a hint or clue to where the treasure is located or area?
A: I don't think I'll clarify, but what I will say is the map is, is generally useful.

Q29: Did someone figure out the two clues on the Netflix episode?
A: The two that I mentioned at the Dillon book signing Q&A that I felt were pretty obvious have since been discussed multiple times. So I think most people are generally aware of them at this point.

Q30: Three items that are in the Netflix series, as to what exactly they are--we have a copper canister that's in your pronghorn room behind your elbow. There's a debate on whether it's an urn, a humidor, or something different. There's also the sticks that are on the same desk in that room that look like bamboo that are metal-tipped that look to be either a collapsible fishing rod, walking stick, or a combination, or neither. And lastly, the small circular container that's on the large desk [near?] you when you page through Forrest Fenn's book. It contains sliced shells, and we were wondering if there's also bones, like a rattlesnake skull, in there or if those are all shells.
A: The first one, yes, it's a humidor. For the second one, I haven't specified exactly what those are. And for the third, the vast majority are shells. It's possible that there might be some small bone fragments in there, but if there are, it would be in the minority and that would not be intentional. Actually, that would be a little strange. It's meant to be shells.

Q31: Is there any clue in the Netflix documentary that tells you about any segment of the treasure trail. Not necessarily the complete treasure trail.
A: A segment. Interesting way to phrase that. I think there are some allusions. They may or may not be obtuse in nature. But yeah.

Q32: Is there any hint you can give us [as to whether] when you're setting the clock, was that actually intentional or not?
A: The clock times...I think at this point, it's pretty clear to people that the clock was very prominent and there were various times shown and they do have some meaning. To my uncertain knowledge, no one has figured out what they mean yet. But I like to think that people are getting close. That's about all I can say about it.

Q33: "Return her face to find the place"--is the place in her face or is it within her gaze? And if it is in her face, Justin, would you be willing to say where like eye or temple or something like that?
A: I'm not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q34: One of the lines that really stumps a lot of the searchers is the stanza that starts with "In ursa east his realm awaits." It's not capitalized, so we're thinking it's probably having to do some kind of ursa major or ursa minor. Could we use "ursa east" to be something like an anagram and maybe it's something like "use a star"?
A: What I can say is that the poem was written deliberately, so the choice of not capitalizing was intentional, but that's all the clarity I'm willing to provide at this point.

Q35: "Return her face to find the place"--is the place in her face or is it within her gaze? And if it is in her face, would you be willing to say where--like eye or temple or something like that?
A: I'm not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q36: So, "as hope surges" is our first actionable clue; does the first stanza lead us to the first actionable clue--solving the first stanza?
A: Virtually every line in the poem is helpful. So just because "as hope surges" is the first actionable clue, doesn't mean people should discount the earlier lines in the poem. They are helpful context.

Q37: "Return her face to find the place"--can you give us an idea, even if it's just a range, of how far "her face" is from "the place"?
A: Interesting question. It's probably not as far as many people might think.

Q38: In the Dillon Q&A, the bride question was really convoluted. Like, "is the bride alive?" You said, "yeah," then "is the bride live?" And it got really like discombobulated. Is there any way to clarify that?
A: The main intent that I wanted to clarify in that session...I don't want someone to get the impression that the bride is a person that is alive today that you can interact with. That is not the case. What I'm trying to prevent is...treasure hunters hassling people that are alive and well right now.

Q39: Is "double arcs" not something you'll see, but a directional bearing?
A: Interesting. I think I'm going to have to punt on that one. I don't want to give too much away, but good question.

Q40: Are there any anagrams in the poem?
A: I haven't specified.

Q41: Is "return her face" referring to the bride?
A: Oh, I'm somewhat tempted to answer this, but I think it would--it might give away too much. I think I have to punt on that one, but I appreciate the question nevertheless.

Q42: Exactly how many clues are in the poem?
A: I think I said there's at least 10.

Q43: You mentioned you'd like to think of the hunt rolling out in stages, but also that someone could mow through it in no time. What is there to further roll out? Is there anyone you know of that has mowed through it?
A: I see there being discrete stages of a treasure hunt where there's the planning, the execution of the hiding, the actual treasure hunt itself, and then the post-treasure hunt world. I see Forrest Fenn's treasure hunt as a key study we can improve upon. In terms of stages during the finding portion of the treasure hunt, I do think there are some stages even within that category. I won't elaborate too much on what that means. It's not requiring anything from me. It's just more the nature of how I put the treasure hunt together. As it stands so far, things are generally on the rails, minus a few acute, unfortunate cases. Nobody has really blasted through it. Hypothetically, that is possible. But there are certain aspects that to my uncertain knowledge have not been solved yet and will, I think, just take a bit of time and effort.

Q44: Will you eliminate a state?
A: Eventually I might eliminate a state. I don't see that being quite necessary yet. People are making good tangible progress across the board.

Q45: The first stanza and the second stanza, you said that they had been solved. Were you talking about the first stanza or were you talking about the second stanza, where "hopes surges clear and bright?"
A: Certainly the first stanza. Let me think for a moment here. I want to make sure I'm accurate. So the first stanza has by far and large, at least a large portion has been solved. The second stanza, at least half of it has been solved.

Q46: You've mentioned there's a lead searcher. How do you think this lead searcher is doing? Do you think this person is knocking on the door?
A: My memory might be a little fuzzy, but I don't recall ever using that terminology. I don't know that there's really a lead searcher per se. But I think that there's maybe a certain, categorically, a certain line of thinking where the people that are in that camp are probably making more tangible progress than others.

Q47: To your certain or uncertain knowledge, has anybody reached "double arcs on granite bold"?
A: To my uncertain knowledge, no, nobody has figured out what the--has figured out "double arcs on granite bold." And I might even go so far as to say that there might be a bit of a slight over-emphasis on that portion of the poem that a lot of people are doing today that might not be totally justified.

Q48: Can you explain what you mean by "uncertain knowledge"? Like, have you read everything you've ever been sent to inform your answers to questions?
A: So, generally, there are certain cases in which email is not guaranteed delivery. So, for instance, a message may have been lost or undeliverable for whatever reason. Maybe somebody mistyped the email address. There's probably a plethora of situations where a message may not have made it to me. But if the message did make it to me in my inbox, whether that's Messenger, Instagram, DM, email to support@treasure.quest or justin@treasure.quest, in person-- any of those forums, or even even snail mail, I have read it if I've received it. And all of the answers that I'm providing have that in mind.

Q49: Are there additional books as seen in the documentary or mentioned in Beyond the Maps Edge that will help us in our search?
A: Yes, there are. I'm not going to mention the specific titles, but yeah, I think that's fair to say.

Q50: Did you leave man-made items that searchers can collect?
A: I'm not willing to provide any further clarity on that at this point, but I'll consider [it] for the future.

Q51: Does 42 really mean anything? I see a lot of speculation online about the 42 written on your [tail] light on your truck in the series.
A: I don't really want to comment too much on that, but what I will say is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a fantastic book.

Q52: You mentioned that prior to the hunt going live, you had written out this guess as far as what type of person you think will find the treasure. Would you be willing to give us like one to three traits of that hypothetical person?
A: Somebody had asked what character in Lost, the TV series, would be best positioned to find the treasure. And I originally said Sayid, but I'm changing my mind. I actually think that Hurley might be better positioned. Q: [Later follow-up] Why the switch? A: Just around psychology of the person that I think would find the treasure. I just think that Hurley's psychology aligns more with who I would anticipate might find it.

Q53: You previously had mentioned that there was obviously an optimal solve and then most likely (unintelligible) or more difficult solves. Are you able to clarify how many potential solves are in existence as of today?
A: I know I could gather some statistics on that, but it's an overwhelming amount. And it's kind of--at its core, it starts with the way someone thinks or goes about thinking about the poem and the book and the series, and then from there it just kind of branches or spiders out into so many different combinations. But certainly, hundreds of thousands of potential solutions have been presented at this point.

Q54: Does the number 42 written on your tail light in the Netflix documentary have a connection to Lost?
A: No, the 42 does not have a connection to Lost.

Q55: In the book, there is only a couple places where it's named Big Hole Valley and Big Hole River where the H is capitalized. If the Hole from the poem is not one of those, wouldn't that be a red herring?
A: I have not placed any intentional red herrings. The thing about it is you create a poem and at its core, it is a form of obfuscation, right? I mean, otherwise I'd just say "go here and get the treasure." So, you know, there's clearly obfuscation going on throughout the poem, but, you know, in the book itself and the best of my abilities, I haven't built in any red herrings to throw people off deliberately.

Q56: Is there some kind of portion that that points towards something maybe biblical?
A: I'm not part of any formal religious organization, but I think it's fair to say that I am a spiritual person.

Q57: My question is regarding clues: between Netflix, the book, the poem and the website, what would be the best odds for a hunter to get the treasure, out of those four?
A: Certainly the poem is the most helpful. That is what it's designed for is to lead someone to the treasure. [Then] there's some supplementary information. If I had to order them in terms of most important to relatively least important, number one would certainly be the poem. Second would be the book in any of the formats. Third would be the series. There are some hints in the series I was able to sneak in and those hints are probably in two categories: one are hints that are a little bit more direct in helping someone understand how to find the treasure, and there are other hints in the series that are meant to help as you read the book. So, top of the line would be the poem followed by the book followed by the series.

Q58: Is the number 42 is related to any kind of Bible verse?
A: That's not something I want to provide clarity on at this point.

Q59: Is your logo inspired by the angzarr [symbol]?
A: Yeah, the angzarr symbol was--I chose and modified it intentionally. I can say that.

Q60: Do you have any advice on what searchers should do differently?
A: I think that maybe some people might be focusing too much on, like for instance, oh my gosh, do I have to pay or not? Now, I understand if you're in a financial situation where that might hinder your ability to search certain areas. But I think most of the places in the U.S., the fees are low enough where it's not a complete barrier of entry. But I guess what I'm getting at is I think maybe there's an overemphasis on things like that as opposed to just focusing on solving the poem itself.

Q61: One of the differences in the audio book says, "You taught me the difference between reality and fantasy isn't a wall, it's a map waiting to be drawn." To your knowledge, has anyone drawn that specific map?
A: Interesting question. I'm struggling with how to answer this the way I want to. Just give me one second here to formulate this. I guess the short answer would be no, I don't think anybody has done that.

Q62: Is the number 27 relevant to any aspect of the treasure hunt?
A: Maybe.

Q63: I've noticed a handful of Beatles connections--that's the band--and with you referencing that Lewis Carroll line and coupling that with knowing that Lewis Carroll heavily influenced the Beatles with songwriting, the album, art and themes, is there is there a Beatles connection to the hunt?
A: At this point, I'm not willing to shed any more light one way or the other, but I think those are interesting observations.

Q64: I came across something that's called a post sundial. Could I, in my search, use the sundial to possibly find the vicinity of where I should be looking?
A: That's not something I'm going to clarify.

Q65: Is the periodic table at play for anything. Not specifically [unintelligible] but should we be focused on that?
A: Is the periodic table at play. I'm fine with keeping that in play. I might provide more clarity in the future. But for now, I'm not going to not going to specify any further.

Q66: When did your treasure location start to hold significance: as a young person, during the chase, or during another era of your life?
A: I think if I nail that down, it might give away more than I'm willing to give away. But it's a place that is important to me, and it's a place that I've known about for quite some time.

Q67: When did your treasure location start to hold significance: as a young person, during the chase, or during another era of your life?
A: I think if I nail that down, it might give away more than I'm willing to give away. But it's a place that is important to me, and it's a place that I've known about for quite some time.

Q68: I have typed so many things in at the end of your website to your own and I'm curious if I'm just wasting my time?
A: You mean like extensions to the URL--I don't think it's worthwhile to just type in random things. That would be that would largely be a waste of time. But if there was--I'm not saying whether or not the website has any ability to actually-- you know, it's probably for the best that I just eliminate that. There's no need for you to type in special path parameters or query parameters. That's not going to get you anywhere.

Q69: [Are] there any secondary websites that contain clues that are attached to your website?
A: Are there any what attached to the website? Q: Are there any clues on a secondary website that are linked on your website? A: Secondary website...? Ema: So for example, there is big discussion about the Saddleback [leather briefcase] and stuff like that. You might have heard of that. Q: Yeah, I want to phrase this right...Anything that is linked through the website may ultimately contain something of importance. That being said, I just want to clarify, Saddleback is a family-owned small business. I don't want people calling them and trying to beg them for hints or anything like that. The Saddleback website itself does not contain any hints. I've been a long time supporter of Saddleback leather... I hope everybody supports them, but no, there's nothing specifically on their website, Saddleback, that is meant to be a clue.