Transcripts

MW Six Questions — Owner of the Forrest Fenn Treasure Chest (22 Aug 2023)
https://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-justin-posey-owner-of-the-forrest-fenn-treasure-chest/

Q: When did you first join the Fenn search?
A: I started searching in 2012. I consider myself merely a steward of the chest.

Q: Enjoy most? End of the chase?
A: Adventuring with friends and family. The end of the chase was the end of an era. I do not regret it. Take the ticket and relish the ride.

Q: LLC / Tesouro Sagrado?
A: Basic legal protection and temporary anonymity. Name chosen hastily.

Q: Negotiation?
A: More than a year with Jack, attorneys, LLC members, and the Fenn estate. Most taxing negotiation I've endured.

Q: What you still have?
A: Treasure chest, dragon bracelet, a few coins, dust, and flakes. LLC retained around 21 items after auction issues.

Q: Missing items?
A: Emerald ring with the family. The "something special" for the finder remains unknown to me.

Q: Olive jar?
A: Likely Forrest's autobiography. I was not the most suitable custodian to unveil it.

Q: Nine Mile Hole Fenn meanings (Fenn solve, not Justin's hide):
WWWH: Madison Junction
Canyon down: Go down Madison Canyon
NFBTFTW: Drive your car
HOB: Cross the river below the Brown trout hole (NMH)
Meek: You are not on a trail
End nigh: you are almost there
No paddle up creek: No need to go upstream
Heavy loads water high: water upstream is deep with boulders
Blaze: mark on a tree, or Fenn rock

Q: Jack timeline?
A: Photo forensics: unearthed late summer 2019. Contract said retrieved June 2020, not discovered. Speculative: left over winter, Puerto Rico residency, reclaimed 5 Jun 2020.

Q: Under the wood lining?
A: I am enamored with the notion of mystery. If I move forward I intend to share it with everyone or with no one at all.

hey guys I'm froggy and we have the man
who needs no introduction Justin with us
thanks for being with us Justin happy to
be
here all right so uh we're just gonna
get right into it if that's okay with
you it sounds great let's do it all
right now that you've been uh both a
hunter and we heard all about that on
the documentary and a Hider what's more
exciting for
you well that's a great question you
know I I spent 10 years looking for
Forest treasure I enjoyed every minute
of it and and even before Forest
treasure there was other treasure hunts
that I was involved with to a certain
degrees not that I ever found anything
but uh but you know it's a very
different perspective I think what I
like most about this is I'm able to
incorporate all the things that I think
would be great in a treasure hunt into
what I created so if I were to go out
and look for a treasure this is what I
would want uh and I hope other people do
too that's awesome um
I'll say this as uh so now that you've
done your your time as a hunter and a uh
a Hider if you go back to doing more
treasure hunts looking for stuff do you
feel like you can think a little bit
differently get in the mind of a Creator
a little bit
easier uh I think that's probably true
you know it's like anytime I would do
treasure hunt light forests uh there was
so much time spent in trying to get in
his mindset and understand you know
where he would hide something why he
would hide it there uh and to try and
piece that together so yeah I don't know
if that quite answers your question but
uh yeah no it does it does
yeah right on um oh here's a question um
as you're creating the treasure hunts um
how do you balance difficulty are you
trying to make it just as hard as
possible or are you leaving like I'll
put a little bit of lwh hanging stuff
for someone to grab if you're able to
speak on that at all you know I I think
anybody could create an impossible
treasure hunt like they could go out
somewhere you know bury something or
hide something super well and have such
obscure clues that it would just never
be found right I actually think that's
easier to do um and so I think the right
balance is how do you create something
especially in a vacuum where you can't
talk to anybody else you do this all
kind of all in your mind uh how do you
ensure that it's approachable uh but you
know still challenging uh but but
something that can actually be found
that's been my big challenge uh so I I
hope I've done it justice I really don't
know how long it's going to take it
could be over here I don't know today it
could be another week I I really don't
know how long it's going to take um I
don't have any expectations around the
length of the hunt but um I've designed
it in a way where you know there are
some easier things to find that will
help help you and then there's also some
things that are a little bit more
challenging to discover as well so I
like to kind of think that that'll roll
out in in stages but I mean someone
could just mow through it in no time
also I just I don't
know thank you thank you for answering
that um let's see uh oh so this is a big
one that's publicly uh your big treasure
hunt have you made any smaller hunts
like uh for friends and family have you
done something in the past uh maybe even
all the way back to when you were a kid
with your brother did you ever hide
stuff around for him to
fine you know I I enjoyed treasure
hunting so much when I was a kid I would
hide things for myself to find and I get
out of here look back on that like that
wasn't probably the brightest idea but
uh you know it's just like the act of
Discovery and so my my actually I think
I talk about this in my book a little
bit but my mom got me this basically
this Treasure Hunt game and had these
Scrolls that you'd hide around the house
and it would lead you around to uh to
different locations and uh I would just
go and hide them uh and then my friends
would come over and we do it together
but I just kind of like be in the
backdrop watching so I guess that's
probably close to uh close to what
you're describing as as as what I got
but it was uh it was a fun experience
well and I do remember the chapter we
talking about like obviously Christmas
gifts and I think that's something that
that's probably most people's earliest
Recollections of a treasure hunt like
Christmas looking for where your parents
put the put the gifts at y
absolutely okay here's a fun one uh can
we talk about Victoria
Peak we can what would you like to know
about Victoria Peak so that that chapter
really I mean man the spunk of a kid to
sneak onto a military base and uh try to
get a tour and sneak off that's
wild well it wasn't my probably my most
Shining Moment but uh uh it was uh it
was just enthralling when I was a kid I
mean I just I remember distinctly the
first time I heard about it and all the
years that transpired after that and
just everything that went down and going
to the you know the the OS Family
Partnership convention meeting in in uh
bo I think that was in Albuquerque uh it
was I I couldn't think of a more
exciting way to grow up around something
like that so it it it just absolutely
captured my heart and I think that's in
part maybe why I decided to do this
Treasure Hunt is I remember that feeling
from my youth and I hope there are other
people out there that can get get that
same feeling from what I put together
not to say that it compares to Victorio
peak in any way but it's something well
have you uh so has have you moved on
with your heart have you laid it to rest
or do you still have plans maybe to get
back there do you still think there's
something there to be
found uh I'm not short on ideas um okay
mention this at some point you know
uh I like to believe that there are
alternate entrances to that Cavern I
think there's enough evidence to suggest
it only makes sense for a big cavern
like that to have multiple yeah yeah uh
and so I've been working on another side
project I shelved it for a little while
because I was doing this treasure hunt
thing right uh but uh I like to think
that there are other entrances and the
way to discover those might be through
uh bats you know each evening uh bats
leave their uh their shelter which can
be a cave in search of food and I
actually got this idea when I was a kid
because my parents took me to Carl's bag
caverns in New Mexico and it was right
at nightfall and my dad brought an
umbrella and I thought this is so
ridiculous like what it was there's not
a cloud in the sky and I was embarrassed
that he was bringing this umbrella like
Dad what are you doing you know and so
as Nightfall approached he opens his
umbrella and he's holding it there and I
was just mortified at the time and then
it was just like an explosion of bats
coming out of the cave and of course
with bats come guano and it just kind of
rained down you know and he had the
umbrella it's like wow okay that's
pretty legit uh but my point is how this
relates to the story is um you know if
you look on Doppler radar you actually
will see anomalies at night and there
are large bat colonies that are coming
out of caves and so they're for weather
but you can actually use them to see
uh large cave systems and so I thought
if I could design something that's more
localized that you could say mount on a
truck or a vehicle and you can take it
from location to location it's more
sensitive but has a smaller range uh
maybe at night you could actually detect
uh some sort of small colony of bats
exiting a Cave System you know that
might technically be off off off of the
uh the range boundary of you know the
White Sands Missile Range and maybe you
could find something there I don't know
the Beast uh the Beast version three or
four will have the radar on there well
funny enough I actually sold the Beast
uh no you you let go of the Beast I did
um I did
actually yeah I mean just after uh you
know after Tucker passed I just I
couldn't I couldn't get in that truck
anymore without just seeing him there
and it just killed me uh so anyhow I I
ended up selling it to a really good guy
so okay it's gone to a good home it's G
to a good home well I look forward to uh
staying close to your socials uh as the
years go by and seeing if we can see
something posted about Victoria Peak
that'll be that'll be cool coming up
another
adventure all right uh now that we're
talking about the book uh I've got a few
questions on certain stories in the book
you mind if we go into some of those not
at all let's do it all right uh okay the
first one for me raccoons have you ever
thought about owning a raccoon seriously
since that
day well I actually had a pet raccoon I
don't think I mentioned that in the book
um yeah kind of a crazy story I don't
know when I was a kid just I was
sleeping one night and my dad woke me up
and um said let's go and I didn't know
where we were going you know and my my
brother and I and we we hopped on our
bikes there in in 49ers Country Club in
Tucson and he took us to this location
at the edge of the tree line and um
there were apparently some baby raccoons
that he knew of and he decided to is
going to get one I can't really talk
about the ethics of that that's not I
mean that's debatable but uh he ended up
uh getting two baby raccoons and they
came home to live with us and we
actually raised them so uh I did have
one that's awesome man what what was the
name you remember uh Rascal Rascal I
mean there's not
a have you ever read the book Where the
Red Fern
Grows I have
that's uh that's always uh whenever I
think of raccoons I always think that
was one of the I read it at an early age
and had a really big impact on me yeah
sometimes when I think of Tucker I I
picture a blood hound like uh H yeah I
think there is a bit of a resemblance
there of course Disney did the the movie
as well but I always preer the
book uh okay here we go um when you
drive today uh and if you can't say
because there might be law enforcement
watching do you still use the
speedometer or do you trust your uh m
marker method well I think it's
something ingrained in me by now so I do
find myself on the highway from time to
time you know checking the mile markers
in the mile post so uh yeah it
happens here's another one uh this was
another one of my top stories from the
book The uh your uh your gift was it
called Posey's Revenge at the gift uh
store where you the scents from all the
candles got you are you still sensitive
do you have a lot of candles in your
house right now no you know it's funny
there's
there's a very distinctive smell from
that candle and every once in probably
like five years I'll catch a whiff of it
and I immediately get nauseous and I've
just gota like run from the area uh I
don't know what the smell or the scent
is but it's uh it doesn't agree with my
body for some
reason all right note to self candles is
Kryptonite all right we got that
down um all right speaking of another
incident here um in the story where you
uh were you and Tucker which thankfully
he was okay uh but where you got hit by
the bike uh in bellw in the Seattle area
what happened with that did you uh did
you ever find out who did it did it were
there bystanders that watched it or you
remember no you know it happened near
Nightfall and uh you know it was was
over as quickly as it began uh it was
you know through and through a hit and
run we never never figured out who that
was you know I think back then there
maybe today people would have like ring
doorbell cameras or something it might
have caught something like that but not
back then yeah do you still uh bike bike
a lot a decent amount I do I mean not
nearly as much as I used to um I'm
mainly more into hiking and you know
backpacking and fishing and that that
sort of thing these days but uh uh from
time to time okay oh the next one we can
go to fishing um all right so you
mentioned a lot about uh fly fishing
have you ever been offsh
fishing I have uh a number of times and
it's almost never been a good ending for
me I get no violently seasick
unfortunately okay you know yeah I think
a few times off the coast of Hawaii and
then uh off the coast of Oregon a few
times and also down in in Mexico as well
uh and each time it just it gets
me so so fly fishing you know you're on
your own two feet it's a little bit more
stable that's that's kind of a thing oh
yeah certainly yeah I mean there was one
particular incident at see where um this
was actually off the coast of Hawaii my
dad had just caught some uh Ono fish and
on board it was just horrible to me at
the time like they're they're cutting
off pieces of this fish and eating it
raw on the boat I mean the fish is
basically still moving uh instant throw
up like I
just that situation no I I much prefer
Inland fishing especially trout
fishing trout fish okay trout that
that's your that's your your go-to fish
trout it is yes yeah one one one time in
my youth I fancied myself a bass
fisherman but I think the net result of
that is that it's not for me I'm more of
a trout guy so I'm I'm very uh uh
ignorant to tr to fly fishing I've never
been fly fishing I've been offshore once
or twice I've I've done I guess the
traditional reel a couple times fly
fishing to me just seems really
complicated it just I don't know it just
it seems really tough I think it
partially depends on what you kind of
grew up with you know it's like you try
and learn say skiing as an adult versus
you know you see the little kids zipping
up into the mountain or down the
mountain all the time and you know I
think some things are just kind of
easier to pick up at a younger age uh
but I think often times I mean there are
Advanced techn technicalities and
technical issues with with fly fishing
but you know the basics of it is really
not not that bad I think it is pretty
approachable but I can imagine how it
can be frustrating for someone just
starting out I think it just takes the
right guidance that's
all is there a story with a a bass that
got away for a reason why you want to
stick the trout or it just came up empty
a couple times no when I was a kid we
went to Table Rock Lake in Missouri okay
and I was so excited about it uh because
we were going to go bass fishing for the
first time and of course I had read like
30 books on bass fishing and I felt like
oh I'm just bash bass fishing
extraordinaire like it's gonna go
awesome uh and so the uh the the morning
of my dad overslept and I was just
beside myself and I came in and of
course I was balling my eyes out you
know I was probably like I don't know
nine or 10 at the time I'm not sure and
he felt terrible so he jumped up he's
like no no we're going bass fishing so
uh you know we went out on the boat and
we spent all day uh and actually we were
with my uh one of my uncles who is a um
actually a competitive bass
fisherman and we didn't get a single
bite the whole day you
know I don't know just that that first
experience for whatever reason just kind
of turned me off I I'm probably the
world's worst Fass
fisherman all right we'll stick in the
trout then uh okay here's here's another
big one hard-hitting question right here
uh the story about the uh the beino
Betrayal why did you eat all the beino
why not just dump out the
pills well you know
it's the genius of Youth um I had it in
my mind that I needed to take I should
take the pills because you know I didn't
want any sort of uh flatulence issues
later on in the evening so it's like
that's what this is for like God you
know it was one's good a handful is
better yeah so exactly it was just just
like more of anything must be better
which clearly is not the
case yeah I I cracked up that and from
the Discord channels that's that's a fan
favorite is that one oh boy yeah just so
you know people enjoy the uh the imagery
of you bending over in pain so that's
fan favorite you know I do what I
can all right uh so this one um this
one's more probably me than the
community that wants to know I I'm uh I
served in the military I really related
or really found the story of your your
grandpa Wayne interesting especially uh
you know the the stories you were
telling um about his time in the big red
one uh and then the wild thing about him
crossing the ring cones with just like a
knife and a canteen like are there so
you do talk a little bit about him and a
little bit about that are there any
stories that you remember that he told
you that you can share with us here um
any either either in the War uh you know
serving in that unit or crossing the
ring cones like any stories he told
about that
yeah well first off thank you for your
service I didn't I didn't realize you've
been part of the military so that's very
cool um yeah there's a lot of stories uh
you know most of them were from the time
that he was a fishing game warden in
fact actually I think I mentioned it
maybe in the book uh you you do you do a
couple times yeah he wrote his own
Memoir and that is uh boy what is that
called uh where in the hell did you come
from it's the ups and downs and in and
outs of of of being a game warden uh and
there I think there's some pretty pretty
incredible stories in there and some of
them uh you know he has a kind of a very
matter of fact
storytelling way about him so uh you
know I I knew him well and I even
struggled through that
book uh just because it's I think a
little little dry reading if you if you
will but um yeah I mean there's some
pretty incredible stories like when he
was a fishing game Mor he was uh this
was in Southwestern Montana and he was
overlooking this this Ridge through
binoculars watching some some fly
fishermen I think down in the valley
either that or some some Hunters I don't
I don't recall which and his uh he
bumped the the manual shift lever in his
vehicle while he was there and he didn't
notice it because he's looking through
these binoculars so the uh the Jeep
started slowly rolling forward and it
went over the embankment and uh down the
mountain side and of course the the
binoculars were around his a strap
around his neck and they just beat him
to hell as the oh my God you know as the
vehicle tumbled down to the bottom and I
think he was stuck down there for quite
a while uh and at some point just I mean
we're talking the middle of nowhere uh
just Serendipity that some uh somebody
was driving by and they happened to
notice the tire tracks going off the off
the road and they stopped and uh looked
down there and he hollered up to them
and it's the only reason I think he
survived that incident but there's a lot
of actually stories like that in that
book um you know at some point I think I
i' I've considered doing a a revised
Edition uh to kind of tighten it up and
and focus on some of the more
interesting stuff but yeah there's a lot
there okay I think yeah I think I'll
have to check that out someone did uh
post a link to that earlier we were
digging into it you know as as the
community does digging into things right
um are there any plans so you mentioned
about the revised Edition possibly but
do you have any plans to do um like a
part two to uh you know beond the map's
Edge or like
another what would you call it like an
inary book or
something yeah it's funny my neighbor um
keeps telling me I need to do a u the
unedited version of of Beyond map Edge
but I think that might be a little too
politically un incorrect I'm sure there
was some stuff that you know your editor
had to figle a little bit of ch a little
bit oh well the editor I mean Matt
really saved saved that book it was a
deplorable mess before he got involved I
I have a penchant for uh similes and and
metaphors and uh a little bit of
literary flourish if you will uh taken
to the extreme so I appreciate that he
was able to kind of Co the herd there a
little bit but uh yeah I mean I I don't
think I'm the world's most proficient Au
author so I I I think I'd be loathed to
to try and create something else so I
probably not but stranger things have
happened well hey people enjoy it from
what from what I mean I agree it's a
pretty easy read um so whether you or
the editor both you guys can take credit
for both that together it's uh it's a
pretty easy read well hey and if you
don't enjoy it you get uh you get some
kindling I might have cost you 40
something dollars
but uh okay uh so a couple more
questions here because we're getting to
the end of things um looking back uh
looking back on this whole experience so
far we're still early into it but
looking back on your uh 90,000 journey
to hide stuff with a broken tibia
looking back on the puzzles and all the
effort you put into that is there which
are you more proud of your the final
spot that you decided or the puzzle
itself
wow if you were to sit back and think
like you know what like that spot is
just the best spot or this puzzle so you
know well crafted like is there one that
takes precedence one of the
other I think I'm equally pleased with
both equally great spot and a great
puzzle yeah um I think they're
both yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty happy
with both okay I'm good I'm I'm I'm
hoping somebody uh hopefully it doesn't
go decades I don't want it to be found
too soon I I want to I I enjoy the
buildup I enjoy this uh the suspense and
everything so there's any correlation
between how long it takes for someone to
craft a puzzle versus how long it takes
someone to solve it you you might be in
luck I I think Forest spent like what
did he say 10 years working on poem yeah
I came up with the bulk of that poem in
about four to six hours
so uh you know uh I don't know if that
comparison helps anybody but
well I wrote that down in a marker CED
it and uh if I had a soundboard that
would be a soundboard
[Laughter]
section uh okay um as of a short
question right here as of today this
very moment would you do it all over
again if you go back to the start still
still enjoying the process I am you know
there's there's been
some uh some speed bumps along the way
you know I really I I was happy to to
write the book I'm not not as uh I
really didn't want to be in a position
of actually selling it it's like you
know go to Barnes & Noble or your local
bookstore or something like that I just
think with some of the supply chain
challenges you know having to you give
give people an Avenue to purchase until
that gets resolved has been uh a little
bit of a a pain point for me but um I'm
happy to do it like it's it needed to be
done so uh you know beyond that I think
actually things have been running uh
very smoothly so far of course it's
early so not going to would but uh I'm
very
hopeful okay and the last question here
is um let's talk for a few seconds about
uh what does the future hold for Mr
posie for for Justin I mean um are there
any more Netflix documentaries on the
road for anything else you allowed to
say that no there's nothing in the
pipeline um you know I I really do see
myself transitioning to just being a
bystander uh I feel like I've said
everything I want to say I think that
the announcements that have gone up have
given a good round of initial Clarity I
don't plan to do a lot of you know
interviews or anything like that uh it's
more just it's out there you know enjoy
it while it lasts and and and have a
good time uh you know I think there's a
few people that had reached out early
that had asked uh to do an interview and
uh yourself included which I'm I'm happy
to
oblige yeah I think after this initial
round my uh my my time in the spotlight
is over just you know go and have a good
time all right so no plans for you know
Good Morning America you know Inside
Edition Justin on the spotlight uh not
yet not at this moment no there's no
plans for anything like that I mean if
there's some sort of media outlet that
wants to you know collaborate on
something that I think would be
genuinely
useful uh I can't imagine what that
would be offand I'm certainly not
opposed to it but generally speaking
I've said what I want to say yeah I can
see how it would get kind of uh tiring
to hear this same five questions by
everybody where's it at is it here can
you tell us you have to oh no yeah it's
it's not that I'm you know and I I think
more anything it's what's important is
that all the information is kind of in
one place and I feel like the more
interviews that happen uh the more risk
there is for that information to kind of
just spread out all over the place it
just makes it harder I think you know
just me being in the shoes of a a
Searcher for so long it's hard to keep
on top of all that it's like oh well he
said this over there and said that over
there I think at some point someone uh
in the forest Fen Chase had created a a
word uh well it was some sort of
document that you could pay for and it
was all of the words from forest Fen
from like a multitude of interviews and
just different sources and it was great
to have all that together but the mere
fact that someone had to create that I
think is kind of problem atic so uh I I
prefer to avoid that all right well hey
thank you for your time and if anybody
uh you want to know his website is
really great uh treasure. Quest and uh
like he said he puts all the information
right there um thank you Justin for
coming on well thank you froggy
appreciate your time all
right all around for blunder do you need
some help to be your
best there's something that you're
trying to find but you're about to lose
your mind so come on listen in est's
quest day is Quest the show where he'll
be sharing Clues day is Quest will chase
away your Searchers Clues he solving
puzzles with a smile he'll help your
theories pass the trial he's welcoming
you here to be his
guest now listen close and you'll be
told the clues to every High to go so
come on listen in to este's
Quest come on listen in to EST
[Applause]
[Music]

TODAY / NBC News — Joe Fryer — 27 Mar 2025
https://www.today.com/popculture/justin-posey-treasure-hunt-clues-poem-rcna198334
Also: https://www.today.com/popculture/gold-and-greed-true-story-forest-fenn-treasure-rcna197431

On TODAY, Posey discussed Fenn's hunt and his own.

"It's just a way of paying it forward, what Fenn created for thousands of us."

Joe Fryer asked if he knew whether all the clues he hid in the house interview setup had made it onto Gold & Greed.

"I feel confident that they are," Posey told Fryer with a smile.

"Let's just say whoever finds it will not be disappointed," with a grin on TODAY.

On Fenn's hunt, to Fryer (second TODAY piece):
"It was about solving this puzzle that combined poetry and history and wilderness exploration. It was just about deciphering the clues. And it almost became like a meditative experience."

Friends and family would categorize him as eccentric. Grandfather was a Montana fish and game warden.

Neither Netflix nor the director knew if house clues made the cut; Posey said he feels confident they are there.

Okay, everybody, here is the big show,
the man himself, Justin Posey. Thank you
for coming on, Justin. Um, so no intro,
no song. We're just going to go right
into it. Justin's got some limited time,
so he cannot do the full hour. Um, so in
our Discord, we took a bunch of
questions. We have them in no particular
order, and we're just going to kind of
rapid fire and answer what you can.
Okay. Uh, that sounds great. All right.
So, first question is just in general,
how's the experience been so far?
Because you had Netflix, now this
treasure hunt. You said you're getting a
thousand emails a day through the
website. Uh, how's the experience been?
It uh, sorry, my monitor is Mine did
that, too. What's going on? There we go.
Okay, that's a little bit better. Lots
of monitors. Okay, there we go. Uh, no.
Yes, the response has been quite
overwhelming. Uh, far beyond what I ever
anticipated. So, it's been it's been a
bit of a challenge to just kind of keep
up with everything. Um, you know, I know
a lot of people are reaching out. They
have a lot of questions. Uh, I think
most of the what I wanted to say I think
is on the website. I'll do my best to
keep that updated in the coming days.
Uh, but beyond that, I'm just I'm
excited that everybody's excited because
that's really what it's all about.
That's awesome. Okay, so the first
question of course will come from me
because this hits home for me. We know
that you're a pretty smart guy. You
talked about X-ray vision. I didn't even
understand that. Um, and so do you need
to be techy? Do you need to have kind of
that I don't know programmers knowledge
like in the span of you know redneck up
to super PhDs could everyone solve this
or is there going to be some something
more to it that you may need to learn?
Yeah, that's a great question. You know,
I've I've done my best to design this in
a way that is accessible by anybody. You
don't need any advanced degrees. I think
any reasonable person that spends a
little bit of time, maybe a little time
researching online and, you know,
watching the series, reading the book to
kind of get a baseline understanding of,
I guess, me. Um, you know, I think it's
on equal footing. It was really
important to me that that no one had a
leg up over anybody else. And so, you
know, very specifically, I I avoided any
sort of advanced information as long as
as humanly possible. I waited as long as
possible to register the ISBN for the
book to make sure that people didn't
didn't know that was coming ahead of
time since it had a description in it
about, you know, the the treasure. And I
also um you know, the the poem didn't
even go into the book until the moment
it went to the printer for printing. So,
no one saw the the poem ahead of time or
anything. So, I think everybody's on
equal footing here uh to the best of my
abilities. And I don't think that um I
don't think anybody has a leg up over
anybody else and I think that anybody
can solve this. Okay, follow-up
question. You kind of answered it, but
some people are saying they're finding
things in the code of your website,
treasure.quest. Is that necessary?
Should people be looking into the
background of the code or anything like
that? No, that sounds like fun, but uh I
can put that to rest right now. There's
there's no hidden codes in the website
itself. um you know not nothing that
would require like a you know an
engineering degree or computer science
degree or anything like that. Awesome.
Okay. So in the forest Fen poem um there
were nine clues. Are you can you say is
there a certain number of clues in your
poem? Well that's a good question.
Um, I
think I think yes. Um, and I'm trying to
recall how many there
are. Uh, you know, I'll update the
website with that. Um, but I don't want
to say something that is slightly off
because there's a few in there where
it's like, uh, would you consider that
one clue or two? And um I know people
will split hairs on this later, so I
want to be really cautious about how I
answer that. So yes, I can answer that,
just not right now. Okay, that's
awesome. Um so would you say the poem is
a stepby-step map, pointtooint kind of
like Forest Fends was? Oh, do you mean
like consecutive order or Exactly. Or
are the clues contig contiguous or are
they consecutive? Do you go in order,
point to point? Yeah, that's Yeah. And
you know, I'll preface this by saying,
you know, it's important to me that
everybody has kind of equal access to
the information. So, I'll I'll certainly
update the website with this information
later. Um, but yeah, I think it's fair
to say the clues are in consecutive
order. Wow. Awesome. Good. Logical. So,
we're scouring the book just like we did
for TTOC. Can you give us a ballpark
number of are there 550, 500? Like, how
many hints are we looking for in this
book? because we can see every page, 10
each page, but can you give us a
ballpark of what we're looking at?
Oh boy, that's another good question.
Um, I would say several. There are
several. It's not like there's just one
specific page in the book. Uh, there
there are several sprinkled throughout.
Okay. And you know, we're treasure
hunters, so we're going to ask these
people, so just answer what you can. So,
you said there will be a 30-day clock
that starts when somebody finds it,
which sounds like you know when somebody
finds it in order to start that 30-day
clock. Are you the only one that knows
when somebody's fi when somebody does
find it? Or does a steward also will the
steward also know when somebody finds
it? Um, you know, it's not something I
can actually expand on. I don't want to
give too much away there. Um, but I
think it's fair to say that there there
is a countdown and, you know, people do
need to come forward within that 30-day
window in order to collect the uh the
Bitcoin proceeds. Okay. So, a couple of
the safety questions that we got. Um,
can you say whether the chest is buried
or you have to cross water?
Yep. Good questions.
Um, I'm I'm I'm not going to say whether
or not it's buried, but what I will say
is if if you know where to go, it
wouldn't matter either way. Um,
yeah, I think that's fair to say. And
also, we'll analyze the heck out of that
one.
Uh, yeah. And then in terms of the water
crossings, no, I mean, nothing nothing
dangerous required. Okay. Okay.
Um, can someone find it without using
the map that's in the book or on the
website or would you recommend using
that map?
Uh, I think the map is useful. Um, I
think I'll leave it at that. Okay. Okay.
Um, so we know you're not going to or
you haven't said what the value of your
treasure is, but can you tell us how
many gold coins are in there? Oh my
goodness. Yeah. I' I'd actually have to
check the inventory to be certain on the
number there, but there are many. And
there are all I think almost exclusively
all of them are at least 1 ounce or
larger. Um, you know, the exception
being something like, you know, the coin
from the Lydian Empire. Uh, they didn't
make 1 oz gold coins back then. So,
that's uh that's quite a bit smaller.
Um, and you know, the 1652 Oak Tree
shilling is um, you know, it's I think
it's comparable in size to the 1oz gold
coins, but of course it's it's not made
of gold. But almost
exclusively, you know, everything in the
treasure is is gold. Um, you know, there
of course there are some gems and so on
and some other goodies I I I stuffed in
there as well. Uh, but I I pretty much I
filled this thing to the gills and it is
just I couldn't fit anything else in it.
It is just overflowing. Nice. Wow.
That's great. I'm gonna take a take one
real quick. I don't think we should do
super chat tonight. That's what I was
going to say. Um, and we thank you for
all 400 of you joining us right now. We
know this was kind of last minute to say
exciting. So, there'll be a lot of
people replaying and questions that come
in. We have a set of questions and we
know we have limited time. So, we're
just going to kind of get through them.
If we can get back to super chats,
usually we go right away to them, but we
can't tonight. Okay, Mike, go. Okay.
Will the solution take you to an exact
spot or more of a general area?
Um, if if you've solved the poem in its
entirety, you will end up at a at an
exact location. Oh, I love that. Thank
you. Yeah, we're all we're all cheering.
Okay. Um, can you say um how far you
have to go? Some of us have to get in
shape and things like the forest hunt. I
went one mile and Forest said not more
than a mile. Can you say how far from
your car you're going to be hiking? A
mile, five, just kind of outer perimeter
so someone can make sure to prepare
appropriately for safety. Yeah, I know
there's been actually several questions
about this. First off, I I realize
there's a lot of people have been
reaching out and messaging me. Uh I'
I've received thousands and thousands of
messages, so I'm not ignoring you. It's
just it's not actually physically
possible for me to get through all of
them. Um, you know, I have limited time
during the evenings and weekends to uh
to dedicate to that sort of thing. So,
I'm not I'm not ignoring anybody. Please
know that. But I did see a few
questions. There were some folks that
have uh you know, disabilities or um are
otherwise not in a position to hike
great distances. Rest assured, you don't
need to hike any great distance. Um, in
fact, I go so far as to say that um
um you don't you don't need to you don't
need to hike more than a mile to figure
out where the treasure's at. Oh, more
than a mile. Awesome. Another great
answer. Thank you. Okay, we know that
from the steward we get half of the
Bitcoin password. Uh does the steward
have other treasure items for the
eventual finder? There there are some
additional items that the steward has.
Yes. Nice. All right. Wow. Okay. And it
kind of answers it with it, but I want
to get a little bit more specific.
Advanced ciphers that you and Mike might
find enjoyable. Some of us um don't. Are
advanced ciphers needed or did you kind
of answer that with the question of this
is for everybody or are those fair game?
Yeah.
Um I think it's I I think I'd answer
that by saying there there's one hint
that I just couldn't help myself. uh
that I think maybe arguably could
require a slight bit
of of technical knowledge possibly
uh but just one and it's you know I
wouldn't call it necessarily a critical
hint or anything like that but it was
just something I wanted to have a little
fun with so there there is something
there uh but it's just one okay okay say
a cipher maybe not an advanced cipher
yeah that that's probably probably more
accurate
So, here's a big one. People want to
know if there are any red herrings.
Maybe did you intentionally put a red
herring either in the poem or the book?
Yeah, it's funny. I mean, you think
about the act of creating a poem. Uh I
mean, it is, you know, for a treasure
hunt, that is a way to to obuscate. So,
at its core, like there is some
obfuscation, of course. Uh but you know
I I spent 10 years looking for forest
treasure and I I can imagine the
frustration that would would mount for
anybody who was really invested in
something and it it turned out to be a a
a red herring that was on purpose. So
rest assured I haven't created any red
herrings just to mess with people or
anything like that. Um you know I mean I
think that's all probably left up to
interpretation. Somebody might look at
it and say, "Well, you you did that on
purpose." But, uh, from my perspective,
no. I I haven't created any intentional
red herrings. Another great answer.
Okay. Can we assess this location 247?
Um, or do we or maybe the location might
have hours or things um that we would
need to worry about not being accessible
247?
Uh, as of March 31st at 8:10 p.m.
Central time, 2025, uh, no, there there
shouldn't be any restrictions in that
regard. Okay. Um, do you have to pay to
get into the location?
No. Okay.
Um, this was a huge one for Forest Ven.
Will you give the complete solve after
it's found, including the Netflix hits?
Yeah, it's a good question.
Um, I don't see why I wouldn't. I can
imagine. I mean, you know, just being in
the position that I was in and many of
us uh throughout the forest ven hunt, it
was pretty maddening at the end to to
really want to understand what the what
the solution was. And, you know, I know
there's not going to be any pleasing
everybody. No matter what the solution
is, there will be people out there that
say it's horrible. It's the worst poem
in the world. That's fine. Uh, but what
I do think is important is that people
have some degree of closure. So, yes, I
do plan to do that that and that's why
Beyond the Map's Edge is a great hunt
because you've been on the other side.
You've been a uh a hunter, right? You've
been in that position. Uh I have. Yeah.
Yeah. So, so here's a big one. The the
LLC transfer from Texas to Wyoming and
the jurisdiction of Wyoming. Why did you
have to move it to Wyoming? And of
course, there's some people that think
that means the treasures in Wyoming. I
don't know if you can speak to that or
not. Yeah, there might be some confusion
there. So there was no LLC transfer to
Wyoming. Uh as part of this endeavor, an
LLC was formed. And from day one, it was
in the state of Wyoming. Um and you
know, there's a number of reasons why it
was it was set up that way, but uh there
was no transfer from Texas. Okay. Wow.
Can it be found in wintertime or do we
need to worry? Maybe we're we're at a
hard stop right now on another big hunt
that's going on because of snow. Um, can
we Is it a year round accessible boots
on the ground? Uh, you know, I I don't
want anybody doing anything dangerous.
So, if there's if there's snowy
conditions, you know, you're you're not
going to you're not going to have much
luck. So, I would completely avoid
searching in the snow or any bitter cold
conditions like that. Uh, what's most
important is keeping it safe. The last
thing I think we want is any sort of
injuries or or even worse than that. Um,
certainly don't want to spoil the fun
for everybody, you know. I mean, I I
think that it's important that people
play it safe on this one. Okay. Is the
is the property that you abandon just
out there in some remote location or is
it kind of hidden like a geocache?
Oh, well, I mean, the container that
it's hidden in, whoever finds it, you
you will immediately recognize it. And
anybody who has watched the series or
read my book, uh, they'll know right
away. And no, it's not some replica of
the Fen chest or anything like that. Um,
you don't need any knowledge of the Fen
treasure hunt to be successful here.
Everybody's starting on the same foot.
And um, yes, it is it is extremely
recognizable. So, it sounds like it's
not
hidden. Is that what you said or maybe
not? Maybe. Okay. All right.
Okay. Can you tell us ballpark how many?
Like so you put hints in Netflix and
then some of them because you didn't
know what would hit the cutting room
floor. How many are we looking at and
did any of them not make it in that you
thought really would have been helpful?
You know, kind of what what did that
process look like? Because it sounds
fascinating. You know, that was a pretty
unique challenge. Uh I had zero creative
control over this process. uh you know,
just like everybody else, I was a
participant in the in the documentary
series. And uh you know, that's hard
because I didn't know what scenes were
going to be edited out. I didn't know
what was going to be in focus. I didn't
know what the frame size was going to
be. Uh there was a lot of things I
didn't know. Also, I didn't know what
order the scenes were going to play in.
And so, I think that creates a a unique
challenge. So, yeah, I think it's fair
to say that not everything that I wanted
to be in there landed in there just
because I didn't have any
say. But I I think it's there are some
really good hints in there. Um, and I I
you know, I kind of struggle looking
back on it like what is a better
reference like if I had to choose
between say the book and the and the
series. Um, and I think overall I would
say that the the book is a better
resource for people. Uh, but there are
there are some good things in the
series. All right, if you guys stick
around after Justin leaves, we're going
to we've come up with a few. Discord's
come up with a few. We're going to share
maybe three or four hints that we think
are hints. Justin can confirm like we
think they're hints and they're pretty
clever. Okay, here's a big one. I think
um so there are some people that are now
researching your family and that's
because your grandfather's amazing life
is in the book. You talk about your
father, your brothers. Are you okay with
that? And is that necessary to do any
research on them outside of the book?
Well, you know, when I when I wrote the
book, I do talk about my family,
especially folks that have have departed
since well, even before the book was
written. And and so I think that that is
that is fair game. Uh it's not like you
need to
go, you know, finding people that are uh
friends or family in my life and
dragging them down or anything like
that. not anything like that. Um, but
you know, I think anything that's that's
mentioned in the book is fair game.
Okay. Um, now you had a very special
bond with your brother. Um, if he was
still here, would you have done this
hunt with or created this hunt with him
or is this because of the journey that
you had with him? Yeah, I I think a
large part of this was um I think you
call it a tribute. Uh, so I don't know
if I would have done it if he was here
or not. I mean, I think that would kind
of depend on how I mean, if everything
ended the same way of the the Fen
treasure hunt, then I might have. Um, it
it certainly crossed my mind many times.
Uh, but uh the situation with my brother
was certainly enough to to push me past
that line and and be resolute in saying
that I'm doing this. Nice. Nice. Okay.
So, I'm going to expound on this one a
little bit, KPro, and I don't know if
that's later. Um, the problem with
Forest Fen's poem is we would never know
if we had the right where warm water's
halt until we had the treasure chest.
That's what Forest said. In your poem,
is there any kind of clue verification
built in? Will we know we have the right
first clue or the second clue or you
don't know if you're in the right spot
until you find the chest?
There
is I think for a lack of a better term
there is a checkpoint
um that will give you zero doubt that
you are trending in the right direction.
Ah well then we got to hit that for I
yeah that was you're you're being
phenomenal about your answers. Now is it
a checkpoint for us or is it a
checkpoint also for you or you will know
if somebody is that far along? It's a
good question. Yeah. All right. That
might be the answer, he says with a
smile.
Um, can you rule out any structures?
We've learned so much from forest hunt.
People destroy things unfortunately. Can
you rule out it's not in a structure so
people aren't going into place? Yeah,
absolutely. And that's something I
should have done before. I apologize. I
I need to update the website with this
all of this stuff. But okay. uh at the
treasure is not associated with any
man-made structure and there is uh it's
not you know hidden at a structure or
anything. You don't need to touch a
structure. Great. That's great. That's
great. I'm going to skip the next one,
KPro, because I think you answered that.
Uh how much is solvable from home with
research before you go boots on the
ground? Yeah.
Um a fair amount. Okay, good. Okay.
Okay. Um, does the book contain actual
clues or hints to the clues in the poem?
Likewise, does the Netflix series
contain actual clues or hints to the
clues?
So, well, um, you know, so, first off, I
I think Forest had a distinction between
a clue and a hint. There was there was
some sort of I don't, you know, and just
so people are aware, a clue is a hint.
Hint is a clue. It's all kind of the
same to me. Um, so I I think it's fair
to say that there
are there are
some hints in the series that
will guide you in the book. How's that?
Okay. Okay. That's exactly. Yep. And I
think he kind of answered the next one.
He did. He did. Um, and the next one as
well. We're almost to the end here.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk about an item
that was maybe special to you or that
maybe you regret putting in the chest?
Yeah, there was um there's a small
collection
of of something in there that I I placed
deliberately um but means a great deal
to me. Uh and I think it's more
sentimental than than any sort of value
beyond that. Um, I don't regret putting
it in there. Uh, but it really was a a a
core piece of me. Would you want it back
from the eventual finder?
Uh, I don't I don't think it's fair to
put, you know, requests on the the
finder.
Um, uh, to, you know, I mean, that's
totally up to them. Yeah. Okay. And I'm
going to jump around a little just
because of the previous stuff. Mike, um,
you said 60 pounds. Does that include
the weight of the container or is that
the contents of the of what the treasure
is? Yeah, I mean before I hit it, I I
actually literally put the whole thing
on the scale and just tried to get a a
ballpark number if I were to call
collect correctly. It's actually a bit
north of 60 pounds. Um don't quote me on
that though. Uh um No, but I I think uh
it it does Yeah, I mean it certainly
includes the container. Yeah. Okay. So,
you weighed the whole thing. Okay. I
did. Um, the person that finds a
location, the location that whispers of
personal lore and secrets, is it true
that the person that finds the treasure
will have come to know what those lore
and secrets are?
I think so. Okay. Okay. That's a piece
of it.
Now, if you It seems to me in the
Netflix um series, it some may be
interpreting some of the edited
information that came out in episode 3
that you did not actually purchase
Forest Fen's chest. You did not auction
it. You had to go to plan B. Some
conspiracy theorist says, "This confirms
there's the actual chest is still out
there." I think it's a pretty easy I I
think um explanations, but I think
important that people hear uh from you.
Did you purchase the test? Did you
actually auction it? A and what maybe it
was just editing or any explanation you
can give. Yeah, I realize that might be
a little confusing to people that were,
you know, aware of the entire sequence
of events. So, you know, I think the
documentary was accurate in the sense
that it said that there was an initial
round of negotiations that ended up
falling through, but there was kind of a
continuation of that negotiation that
that picked up, my goodness, many months
later uh that culminated in a purchase.
And I think uh at that time, the thought
was we'd like to give a lot of these
pieces back to the people that that
searched for it for so many years. I
know myself searching for it for that
long, uh, having a piece was was really
important to me and I think that, uh,
some others felt the same way. Uh,
unfortunately, we couldn't just give it
away. Uh, but I think the auction was
was the best course of action. Yeah, it
was great. Well, for I mean, we had a
whole party in here, so we're on the
last couple questions. We know we're a
couple minutes over where you guys where
you could be. So, just couple more and
then we'll wrap up. What's your favorite
constellation? Somebody asked.
you have one or I can answer that. Yeah.
Um so you did just from a from an equity
standpoint. Um Matt um Smell the
Sunshine was your editor. Um you had an
illustrator. Um the Netflix producers
etc. all may have a small piece of
information a little bit in advance. Is
anyone precluded um from searching or
you have an agreement with them? you
know, probably not best if you search
because there might be the perception of
inequity or is it kind of everybody
you've planned for it so everybody it's
fair game. I I did plan meticulously to
ensure that not any single person had
any significant leg up over anybody
else. So I you know some folks might not
might not like this answer but from my
perspective it's a free-for-all. Anybody
can go and do it. Um, now I think there
are a few folks that are involved that
just for their own personal reasons
would don't want to because uh they
understand the optics of that, but I
don't think it's fair for me to go to
them and say now you're excluded because
uh they they don't have any special
information.
Okay. All right. Um well, thank you
Justin. I think that kind of is it. Is
there anything you want to tell us?
Anything you want to say? Is there a
question that we should have asked that
you're surprised that we didn't ask? No,
I I I think I knew that you guys would
be asking the the pointed questions uh
given your background and and and heavy
involvement with with Fen's Treasure
Hunt over the years. So, I appreciate
the time. I'd love to stay longer. The
issue now is just the uh the supply
chain issues with the book. I'm sure
people have realized a little
challenging to get a hold of it right
now. Yeah. Uh so, I'm working with some
of the suppliers this evening trying to
get things up and running again so that
there's there's better access. But uh I
do want to be clear with people. Uh you
know the website will be updated with
this information and um you know I I
think that was one of the frustrations
when I was a fan treasure hunter is that
there was just all these different
avenues of information and it was hard
to kind of keep track of everything. So
I do think it's important for it to be
somewhat s centralized. So at a minimum
I'll be linking to things that that I
think are of of importance or um um you
know other people may find important. So
yeah, and I will email you all these
questions and whichever ones you want to
put up with, you know, to make it fair
for everybody, that's you do what you
want with them, I guess. I appreciate
it. Yeah. Thank you guys for your time.
It's good to talk. Thank you guys.
Treasure Quest, everybody.
Treasure.quest. Um, and of course,
Golden Greed on Netflix. Uh, pretty
awesome. Pretty awesome. Thanks for
doing the treasure hunt and thanks for
joining us. You knew the questions we
were going to ask. You came on anyway,
so thank you. Well, and to be fair, he
didn't know the particular questions. He
just knew we were going to have hard
questions. He didn't get We didn't give
him this list up front is what I mean.
Oh, right. No, no, that's right. He knew
we were gonna ask some appointed right
back. I did. I did. Thanks again,
Justin. Thank you guys. Good luck. So,
everybody stick around because we are
going to Let me do this.
Yeah. Yeah. So, we found some hints and
clues or whatever you want to call them.
And Mike's like, "You did in past and
future, so I want to share it with
everyone." So, which is amazing that he
wants to do this. Breaking news,
everybody. I know I think a co I only
know of a few people that have discussed
this. I don't know if anybody's
discussed it publicly, but we're going
to show you what it is. And and more
important, we're going to show
screenshots and then we can discuss what
do you think it means. Can we just take
a hot second? Yeah. And thank you for
everybody that did a super chat. Sorry
we couldn't get to them, but Justin's
time was limited. We wanted to get
through the questions. So, can we just
take a second? Yeah. Oh my gosh. The
amount that he answered was shocking to
me. Yeah. Again, like Justin's not gonna
And that he's going to put everything on
his website to ensure that everything's
echoable. Like, oh my gosh, that was
awesome. That was awesome. And just so
everybody's aware, treasure.quest, you
can go get the ebook and you can be
reading the book tonight. The ebook is
available. He's having some supply chain
issues with the physical book and he's
working on them. Um, thanks Diana. We
appreciate that. So everybody make sure
you subscribe because me and KPro, we're
going to have Lou be on. We're going to
get Cynthia on. I hope we get the Hurst
on to talk about Netflix, which is a
part of this. I just want to know, did
they have any inkling that there was
going to be a treasure hunt? Did you see
what Rudy said? Thanks, Rudy. So,
everybody, please subscribe. We're
definitely going live whenever there's
breaking news. And now, let's get into
Netflix. Justin confirmed there are some
major I think he said major hints will
help you. Did he say, and again, I'm
going to rewatch this five times. Uh,
did he say it helps you with where to
look in the book? Okay,
wait. Netflix question. The hints help
with. So, anyway, there are some good
hints in the Netflix doc. Not everything
got in, but there were some good hints.
Wait until you guys see what we found.
It's so exciting. And Mike, we're given
Are we given all four of our big
clothes? Let's do combo lock. That's the
big one for me. The big one for me. If
you don't know, we're Cody Brown is in
the chat. Tony, you know that's not you.
In episode three, almost at the very end
of episode three, and I can give you the
actual minute mark. Uh, episode 3 at 40
minutes and 27 seconds. I'm not actually
going to show it, but I'm going to give
you
screenshots. Episode 3, 40 minute and 27
mark, he does a combination lock on his
safe and he shows not one, not two, not
three, but four numbers. Okay, those
four numbers mean something. Those four
numbers are not random. So, let me show
you some the screenshots and let's first
let's agree what the numbers are because
I've gone back and forth with some
people to say, is that the number? So,
let me show you what I did a screenshot
of and you guys can tell me. So, this is
the first number. Okay, he stops on 41,
42. He stops on 44. Okay, first number
is 44. 44. What's the
next? I'm writing it down. 44. Look, we
might know where we're going with this
one. Yeah. Then he go second number he
goes to is
uh 26. Okay, it's pretty clear 26.
Third
number. Third number he goes
to one. One more. The last number is the
interesting one. And this is the one.
This is the point of contention. The
last number he goes to from what I see
is right here. Now what does that look
like to you, KPro? 10.5. Mike, it looks
like it's right in between 10 and 11. He
doesn't go to 10. He doesn't go to 11.
He goes in the middle. And it kind of
lingers there for a second in Netflix
when you watch it. You guys can all
check this out yourself. Uh why is that
important, Mike? Well, if you look at
those four numbers, okay, I believe it's
in between 10 and 11. If you look at
those four numbers, let me bring it
up. Sorry, I don't want to get it wrong.
The four numbers are 44, 26, 1, and
10.5. In between 10 and 11 is 10.5. And
another way you could read that is 44,
26, 01,
10.5. That's latitude, longitude. Does
anybody know where latitude longitude
leads? Anybody? If it is 10.5, that go
ahead, tell them. Nine mile hole. Nine
mile hole. Can you believe it? Nine mile
hole, guys. That's our starting point. 9
mile hole. If it is 10.5 and it has to
be 10.5 because it's 44.26
uh north and then it's 110 and then the
five uh for west I believe it is. So 44
26 01 you could say 1 or 01 10.5 but the
one and the 10.5 you put them together
is 110 and then the five after that that
is a GPS to 9 mile hole and that is
pretty freaking awesome. If I mean I
don't feel that's coincidence. Think
about this. If this is his tribute for
kind of Ode to Forest, that's where he
got his inspiration. He takes from Nine
Mile Hole where the treasure one was and
begins his journey. It's a hint. It's a
clue. Breaking news. Let's clarify
something here. Jared says, "I logged it
as 10, but also being in the middle is
wrong. It's one or the other. Safes
don't work like that." Right, Jared? He
wasn't actually opening his safe. He was
giving us some hints and clues is our
opinion and again you may say no that's
not right but how is it 4426 which is
the latitude for 9 mile hole and then
one
10.5 110 10 and five is the longitude
crazy Jeremy's got a good question if it
is 9 mile hole GPS is it just an Easter
egg or does it mean something more
that's what I think it's our starting
point I think we're he's already told us
we're taking this contiguous journey or
something like that we can word smmith
that later we're starting on a journey I
think We're starting it also 9,000
miles. I think we're starting 9,000
milei journey at 9 mile hole. 9 mile
hole. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it
means start at 9 mile hole. I think one,
it could be just a really fun Easter
egg, but couldn't that also be Everybody
I think that deserves a thumbs up.
Couldn't that also be a hint that maybe
GPS numbers are used in the book? That
that might be one way to find the
treasure. Frank, it's a hint. He says
there's hints in Netflix. He used a safe
combination to give GPS coordinates.
What's that a hint to? GPS coordinates.
I mean, I think it's brilliant. I mean,
Justin, that's pretty cool. Okay. Some
people that I'm going to bucket into
certain things they see naturally. I'm
going to say with Davio, it's music and
periodic tables. And I will say with
you, it is GPS. Every
single anything you see, you see GPS. It
may still be in there. It is an amazing
coincidence if it wasn't in there, but
amazing. Okay, that's just for starters,
guys. Rudy Green says, "The starting
point point is in the poem. It's not in
Netflix." Netflix is a hint to something
in the book or something for the poem.
Yep. What does it mean? Does it mean
nine mile hole is more important than we
think for the poem or for the book?
Yeah, it's point it's pointing out nine
mile hole. The question is why? How is
that a hint? And that's what we will
talk about in future shows. No way. It's
a coincidence, says Craig Carter. Okay,
that's the first one. I did just get a
text from my daughter and hi, she's now
watching. Um, she will not be
commenting. You guys will not be
interacting with her, but she said,
"Mike, you guys better not give away my
clues." So, we're going to be very
mindful. Anything you've given us, Sam,
I don't know what Sam's clues are. Okay.
Nicole Cherro says, "But why would he go
back to the same area?" I don't think he
physically went back the nine mile hole.
That's not what we're saying, right?
Karl, when you say it's a starting
point, I don't mean we're supposed to
physically go to Nine Mile Hole. We're
talking about either in the book maybe
the chapter about nine mile hole is is
important or something in the poem
relates to 9 mile hole but we're not
saying that we all should travel to 9
mile hole correct so I just wanted to
make sure that's clear actually he does
open the safe in another episode and
that is true but it doesn't give the
full four like this particular yeah yeah
Ken says you don't have to pay so you
don't have to pay to get into
Yellowstone I mean we're not saying what
he hit is at nine mile hole or in
Yellowstone we're not saying that he did
say you don't have to pay right and you
do have to pay to go into Yellowstone. I
know you don't because you're military,
but Well, yeah, most people do. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. All right.
Because he wouldn't have said anything.
Will Willitude, he wouldn't have you
wouldn't you may have smiled or
something, but he's not going to confirm
that. Yeah, we kind of There was a lot
of people that asked questions like,
"What is the where is the location?" We
know. We didn't We kept those out. He
was so great. Um Okay. Okay. Next. I
found this one so I feel comfortable
with sharing. So there is in episode one
when they are inter I don't have a
picture for this sorry I might okay I
might go ahead um the ern no in episode
one you see um Justin starting to talk
about his grandfather being the wildlife
wild fishing game warden or charact
whatever the terminology is and there's
a picture of his father his grandfather
there's a white rock in front of it and
then there's something blue on the side
that that has actually been talked about
or you see him at that desk a couple of
times and it's always white rock blue
side on episode three during the I think
it was the watch party or maybe it was
afterwards no it was during the watch
party episode three that same
configuration on and Justin's wearing
the same thing but there is what we
think is an urn it is a copper looking
cylindrical thing so why did that scene
change
there you Yeah, that's the question. Why
did it change? Now again, Jared is I
think's having some trouble. He says,
but he does actually open the safe
earlier and 44 isn't the first number.
Do you think Justin would give his real
combination
in the real safe? No, he would not. That
is set up for Netflix. Okay. It's set up
as a hint or a clue in our opinion, but
he's not giving the real combination to
a safe. So, yeah, it's definitely set
up. Is it in It's It's a GPS to 9 mile
hole, guys. It just is. Emma, if you
want to email kowazars@gmail.com,
um, he might be able to bring it up as
we're talking about it because we have
two more. Oh, just wait. The biggest
one, the biggest one that actually Oh,
she's going to kill me. This, but enough
people have talked about this. I'm going
to give first person that found this was
my daughter. Um, when she found it, we
died and then now it's been put up on
Discord and things, but she found it
first night. U, but let's go. coffee
mugs on the famous the famous picture up
of the um coffee mug. Yep. There we go.
Yeah. So, sometimes there's one coffee
mug, sometimes there's no coffee mug,
sometimes there's two coffee mugs. Some
people are saying the handle of where it
is. I'm not sure about that, but I just
want to say in general, the coffee mug
seems to stand out because they prep it.
We had um a woman named Rebecca in our
um she has been involved um for years in
the documentary business or making I
don't know movie movie sets. They prep
all of this to make sure stuff is not
sitting out. So anything that is sitting
out I think stands out. So there you
have it. And the coffee mug is there.
So we don't know right. What does it
mean? We don't know but it is it is
suspicious. Woman man699 says Justin
said no knowledge of Fenh Hunt is
necessary to participate. Correct. But
Nine Mile Hole is in his book and in his
book has hints to the poem as well. So
again we're thinking I thought he said
Netflix can help you where to look in
the book but I could be wrong. We're
going to have to rewatch this. Um okay
now this is the big one and some of you
already are talking about it. The lock.
This is the huge one in my opinion.
Huge. Huge. And we're giving it to all
of you. So good job Sammy for finding
it. And now enough people have known.
No, the lock loc. Oh, the combo lock.
No. What? The Oh, the lock lock.
Actually, now I got it now. The lock
lock. However you lock. The actual lock.
I see what you're saying. Yeah. So, do
you have the picture I sent you? I do
not. But I have this picture. Okay. Find
Well, first do the first picture that
you just showed a minute ago. You sent
it to me when the lock is not there. Oh,
see I don't I don't have that picture.
Okay. Where do I need to send it to? Cow
lasers. And just to show you guys what
we were talking about with the coffee
cup later on in the program, two coffee
cups, intentional, we don't know what's
going on. There was one coffee cup. Now
there's two.
Um, and let me just go back. Somebody
said the opening scene in episode one in
the combo is he goes to 52 or 53. What
if that is the opening is the beginning
number for GPS because later he did GPS
of 9 mile hole. What a 5253 is the first
number for the latitude. That's all the
Is that Alaska? Is 52 or 53 up in
Alaska? Top of Montana. It's just a
guess, guys. Again, we're we're
spitballing here what the clues could
be, what the hints could be. Um, but
yeah, nobody is saying to go to Nine
Mile Hole. We don't have to go to Nine
Mile Hole. It could be a hint to the
book. It could be a hint to something
else. Could be a hint just to a fishing
hole because in the poem is the word
hole. Cast your line in the hole. Maybe
it's just saying it's saying it is a
fishing hole. things like that. Okay.
Did you email it? I did. Okay. So, you
guys are gonna see. So, we have the the
the setup of his office with the six
monitors around him. Peter Lukako.
Lukako, sorry. Who wants to bet Jack
Stew finds it? You know, Jack said he
wasn't going to look for the forest fen
box in that other treasure hunt, but
Jack hasn't said anything about this
hunt, has he? Not yet. No. Decided not
to do a Medium article. Interesting.
Anyway, yeah. Will Jack be looking for
it? Probably. It's Jack. He'll probably
look for it and then I'll move it, you
know. All right. Okay. So, we have the
monitors around Justin. So, bring up the
one without the lock on it. So, we're
going to be looking on, if you're
looking at the screen on Justin's left
side, there is a bright blue picture.
Um, Michael, bring it up.
So, you said show it without first.
Without it. Okay. So, this is you look
in this area, right? Yeah. Oh, I'm
sorry. It's not the bright blue. It's
the one to his left elbow. So, it's a
picture of, you know, the beauty of the
forest. So, you look at that picture and
give me a second. Okay.
Uh, I'm trying to see how you
No, that's not going to work. Okay. I
don't
What's going on? I sent you three
pictures. Why can't Right. But they're
in one, which I think. Are they in one?
Oh, no. Okay. Give me a second. I'm
downloading. So, show the the um the
rock picture, the first picture first.
Yeah, the one. Yeah.
Picture of the rock, right? Yeah. Oh, so
you zoomed in on the TV screen, right?
Yes. Okay. So, here we go. There we go.
This is zoomed in. Yeah. Go ahead,
Capri. So, that um So, I would want you
to show the other one. So, if you see
that same monitor, this lock shows up um
inter sprinkled throughout the three
episodes. Sometimes that lock is there,
sometime that lock is not. Sometime that
lock is there, sometime not. All
throughout the episode. So go. There's
three pictures I sent you. Can you bring
up each one, please?
Chad Bird, didn't he say as of right now
it was accessible? Yellowstone 9 mile
hole can't be accessed until I
Chad Bird Smarty Pants. Not saying go to
Yellowstone 3D
bronze. After four years of hard work, I
have listed only I listed my only Forest
Fan inspired bronze chest for auction
with the Jack Stew signed collected
works bookmark. Hard to let him go, but
there's bills to pay. Is that on eBay 3D
bronze or you got it on the website? Let
us know and we'll uh we'll show a link.
If you want to email it to me, yeah,
I'll show the link. Thank you for the
super chat. And okay, let's go to KPro's
next
picture. This is the one without it,
right? Oh, this is the one that says
about spaces. I don't know. I don't know
what I'm showing.
Okay. So, you can see down I want you to
put your cursor to the right of the
white coffee mug and where that lock's
going to show up. So, right there, guys,
you can see it's not there. Now, go to
the next picture. And he says all the
space, that's a question I meant to ask
him. If all the clues in or hints in
Netflix are in his house, which we think
because he said that, we think it is.
Yeah. Said that once he says stuff I I
don't know like did you really mean it?
Yeah. And there's the lock. Magically,
it just appears. So appears there and
some scenes it's not. What does that
mean, Kapro? And all throughout. So it
seems like this one was a really
important one. I think to unlock where
you are trying to find this treasure is
hidden in that picture. That picture is
up on his Instagram and where it is
located. Everyone keeps telling me,
including Mike that has Instagram,
they're going to tell me where he has
put this picture, and no one has been
able to provide that. So, I'm hoping one
day I get a penny back and someone can
tell me. He has posted this particular
picture on his Instagram with a
location. I'll have to look because I
haven't tried. I know everybody keeps
saying that. So, one day I will get it.
Um, I'm throwing a penny out there.
Someone throw one back at me. Chad Bird
with the $5 super chat. Another Easter
egg. Three peaks drawn on his truck
window. Three brothers mountain. I don't
know if it'll be that simp simple, Chad,
but maybe. I mean, we're all spitballing
here. Um, so yeah, that lock is there
sometimes and sometimes it isn't. And
I'll show you a picture that you didn't
send, Capro. And then Are you saying
Canyon State Park, Wyoming? Is that
picture with the lock? Is that what
you're saying?
Is the lock on the screen on the front
of the screen? Positive. Woofs. I will
tell you it is in front of the screen
because then if you also go to where
Justin puts the meteorite down in his
vault, you will see that same lock
there. Is that important? There's one
that's breaking news. I don't even know
if Mike knew that. He didn't even listen
either. Edwards does have a good point.
He says earlier tonight, Justin said the
documentary wasn't in the order they
filmed it. That explains why the times
on the clock are out of order and why
the cups change and the lock is there
sometimes isn't there other times. Well,
the lock he would could have just left
it there the whole time. Seems like he
physically moved it, but and that we
don't know. We don't know what we don't
know. So maybe he'll clarify. Maybe he
won't. But uh Okay, thanks 3D Bronze.
We're going to show 3D Bronze's eBay
auction. They might al together guys.
But it's Yeah, go ahead. You can resay
it. But no, no, I'm not saying it.
Everybody else got it. You're not
listening. What I want to show is at the
end of the dock, he opens his his uh
safe and from the inside, here's the
meteorite. There's the lock right there.
Right there. Yeah, that's what I just
said. Yeah. So, okay. He wasn't
listening, but he had the same idea and
he great lines think alike. That's all.
I don't know about
But we haven't talked about the biggest
clue and that's when he changes the
clock, right? Yeah. Go ahead, Ken. I'm
gonna get to your question. He if you
guys watch the Netflix doc, out of
nowhere, he just goes up and he moves
the hour, the minute hand all the way
around. He moves it ahead almost an
hour. Why? That's out of just nowhere,
but they put it in. Minutes. Minutes
mean GPS, Mike. It's a GPS solution.
That's why it could be. Okay, this is a
good question and I have some inside
secret knowledge. Not really, but I'll
tell you the little bit I know. Um, this
is regarding the his truck has a topo
map wrap on it. So, here's the deal. Um,
it was
2020
223. Delacy I think was 2022. No,
2020. I don't know. Whatever year De
Lacy was, I guess it would have been
2020. Um Cynthia, myself, Justin, his
friend Tyler joined the last day. We're
hanging out and I didn't want to hike. I
was already tired. Um I did not want to
hike the last day. And he's like, "Do
you want to hang Do you want to hang in
the truck with Tucker?" That sounds like
if you were an average person, that
would have sounded like, "Oh, you had to
sit in a truck. No, I got to sit in this
beast of a like it's like a hotel room
in there. He has a refrigerator. ious
satellite phone. He had everything in it
and I hung with Tucker all day. Back at
that time that topo map wrap was not a
part of his truck. So only since 2020
did that wrap get put on. So is it a
hint? Is it a clue? Maybe. Well, you
can't find it. Don't go to his house. He
doesn't own that truck anymore from what
I understand. So, but would would he
have known that there was enough enough
out there for that to do you think that
too map being a wrap on Justin's truck
is a hit? I I mean, he had the idea to
do it, but remember he says in his space
in his home that's outside the home. So,
does that count? I I don't know what to
think of the Toppo. At his home or in
his home? What did he say? Because at
his home could be the Well, the garage
the garage isn't in his home
technically. I think the garage could be
Yeah, that's one of his spaces. Yeah.
Yeah, that's Yeah, driveways. His space.
It says, uh, what does it say? It says
within all the spaces you guys have
filmed in my house. That's what it says.
Within all the spaces you guys have
filmed in my house. See, I'm going to
rule out the driveway then. So, if you
guys don't know, there is a forum for
this discussion.
Hinttoofriches.com. Hinttoofriches.com.
Everybody, we redid the forum. It's got
space for the Netflix episodes, what the
clues are. It's got space for forest fen
discussion. Somebody just started up
what the best song in the chase is. You
know that long thread that was on Thor,
the old hint of riches. The chase song,
what chase song is for you? Somebody
started it up again. And then also the
the book, the map, the poem, everything.
Hint of riches.com. If you get an error,
which some people are, just type in
hint. It'll come up. Chad Bird with the
super hint. What does that mean? Hint of
riches. H I N of type. Okay. Chad Bird
with the $10 super chat. The times on
the clock it changes from 606 to 403.
Bench shows 12:03 all times. So there
you go. Chad Bird is doing the work for
us everybody. But when I agree with who
said it earlier when Justin said it's
out of order and he didn't know how they
were going to edit it. Do those times
mean anything? I don't think the times.
I think it's something either him moving
it or just in general the clocks because
I've heard in the book once I get the
book either ebook or otherwise Mike um
that I think it's in general either time
minutes it could be GPS it could be it
actually puts times in the book I've
heard once I actually get the book one
day well you do realize this KPro let me
show you this I hope everybody else you
I'm sure everybody realizes but I'm
going to show you uh check it out the
very first line of the poem and this
treasure quest. Can you find what lives
in time flowing through each measured
rhyme? So right there is time and in
Netflix he moves the minute hand almost
minutes of GPS. What does it mean
though? That's that's probably the
million-dollar question. What does it
mean? Multi-million dollar question.
Okay, another another one. Did we talk
about this? He doesn't say look for
clues. He says look and
listen. Listen for clues. My theory on
the the the the lock that is sometimes
there and sometimes isn't. When the lock
is there is when you listen to what he
says. That was my theory. Maybe you guys
blow it out of the water. But that would
be a way to say, "Hey, the lock means
there's a clue in this little segment,
this little clip." Is it right or not?
But I think that's one valid way to do
things like that. I I have not gone
through to say what does he say when the
lock is there and try and put it
together. Okay. So, here's Okay, you
guys you guys have to thumbs up. We only
have what? 18 thumbs up. I'm now number
19. Um, here's another one. See, Nikki
likes it, but I don't. I think there's
something more to it. Um, I think it
could be the lyrics that are at the end
of the episode three. That is a song
that he specifically wrote um or worked
with a group of people for the that is
the Netflix song for Golden Greed. Um,
hey Mike, did you know that there's more
money now in Bitcoin? In the Bitcoin?
Let's check it out. Let's check it out.
Let's check it out. And we're gonna show
3D Bronze's uh auction on eBay. One cup,
one clue, two cups. You gota You got to
refresh on YouTube. We have 91 thumbs
up. Cra. Oh, okay. Yeah. Thank you
everybody. No, if I refresh it makes
everything. So, was the video good for
everybody? It was a little jerky on my
when I was watching the playback. It was
fine for me, but somebody in chat said
he keeps freezing up. Yeah. I hope
that's not when this process is
hopefully it's good. Okay, think about
this. We went I think 22 minutes. He
needed to limit to 20. We got so much
information in 20 minutes.
Good job, Mike. Uh here is the Bitcoin
wallet, everybody. And it's got $35 in
it. Now, we know that Dave from the
great US treasure hunt put in like $8
worth of Bitcoin. Anybody can go here
and donate. If you know about Bitcoin,
you can send money to this wallet right
here. So, anybody can just make a
donation to the eventual finder. You
can't pull it back out. You can only put
it in. It's a one-way thing. But this
increased from the $8.50 or so to $35.
We we should have asked him. I don't
know if that's because Justin put a book
sale in or if a searcher or somebody
donated. So, it is at 35 bucks. Jared,
who's I think a techie techie smarty
smarty said, "I changed the video
quality to 480p and it never froze after
that." So, it might be the individual
person. I don't know. Thanks, Amber. We
appreciate that. Thanks. YouTube likes
that. The thumbs up for the algorithm,
you know. So, here's Edward Henson is
going way deep. Hang on. Way over the
crory bridge. Rearrange the audio, the
Netflix audio in the correct order based
on the jumbled clock times. That would
take a little bit of work, but for a
million dollars, I would probably go
down that road just to see. I mean, but
that means but that would mean Justin
had creative control and all that's in
there on purpose, which is possible. I
don't know. But that is an interesting
idea. Edward, I mean, this is KPro
called it. If you guys are new to our
show, because we have, you know, 500
people that joined to watch to listen to
Justin's interview. KPro called the
treasure hunt and called the hints in
Netflix like four months ago, was it?
Three months ago. Yeah. But it was a
hail Mary. I I thought pretty
confidently about um that he was going
to do a hunt because that was in the Ben
Wallace article, but it was a total hail
Mary based like wouldn't it be cool? So
I just doubled down on it because what's
the worst that can happen? Mike was
gonna be able to play naughty sound
clips. Um so it was Yeah, it was
awesome. That was a long shot that
worked out. I wish that was a parlay or
something at the because I would have
really cashed in. Yeah. But gosh, I
can't even tell you what my favorite
part of the It's huge that he said there
might be one little cipher in there. He
couldn't resist putting one thing in
there. So, what does that mean? And the
confirmer that there's some kind of a
checkpoint. What does that mean? I mean,
that's huge. That's breaking news. He's
never said that before. Well, that he
says he's going to put up on the
website. How many clues? Like forest
clues. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He And it's to
make it fair, he doesn't want to do it
here. He'll do it there, which is pretty
awesome. and that it's step by step. We
are going like down a route. I thought
that was huge. Um he said there's
several hints in the book. You know, we
had this debate. Um Oh, okay. USA China
sent the pick truck. The truck of the
pick the pick of the truck. Sorry. What?
Um he's you are being sent stuff. Or did
you send it to me? USA China sent it to
me. I will only have to get it. Somebody
asked for a sideby-side comparison on
the combo. So, here we go. Tiff
Thompson, if that's your real name. Here
we go. Uh oh. Can I do it this way? Oh,
I'm going to do entire screen. Yes, I
can. Boom. Check it out, everybody. So,
this is the one. Let me zoom in. That's
the one. Isn't that between one and one
and a half? If we want to really be No,
because it's at an angle, I think. But
this one for me, to me, it looks like
it's in between. Now, if this is wrong,
I wish Justin would just confirm that
no, that is not GPS. These numbers don't
mean anything cuz this rabbit hole, you
know, you could go down forever. To me,
this looks like it's on a one and this
looks like it's between 10 and 11. Could
be wrong. It could be nothing. It's
possible. So, do you think it's
interesting that he said um he wouldn't
answer whether it was buried? Almost
like forest. So, maybe for legal reasons
he didn't want to say it, but it
wouldn't matter either way to knowing
where the we're getting to exact
location. That is so much better than
grid searching. Like, okay. Um, I'm
going over the answers. Um, can someone
find it without looking at the map? No.
He says that it's useful to be able to
look at that map. He talked about exact
location. How can you get better than
that? Exact location, Mike. I know.
Yeah. Yeah. If you solve everything,
it's right there. Ciphers in the poem.
That would be my initial guess, but we
don't know. It does say something about
Well, let me bring it up instead of
saying something about Let's actually
read it. It says if you know how to read
the words or something like that. Let me
see me go to it real quick again.
Treasure.quest. Um, okay. This is the
first stanza. Okay. Can you find what
lives in time? And Netflixy moves the
hour, the minute hand. Flowing through
each measured rhyme. Wisdom waits in
shadowed sight. For those who read these
words just right. Read these words just
right. Scream cipher to me. Uh, in some
way, shape, or form. Now, would he give
us a hint to the cipher in the book?
Well, and Jeff Green says, "Not in
water." Says it on the website, right?
But we asked, "Do you need to cross any
like Forest Fen? If you were in that
hunt, you know, supposedly if you
believe in NM Hole, you had to wade over
the Madison River to get to the
location." He ruled that out tonight as
far as I'm concerned, but I'm going to
re rewatch it a hundred times. Oh. Oh,
here's a big one, Mike. I think so, too.
That's true. less than a mile. He said
to find it from your car is less than a
mile or that you have to He said it's
not a great distance. He's going to say
not more than one mile. Boom.
Breaking news. So, what we need to do is
we need to transcribe this and post it
on Discord, post it in the Grand
Adventure, put it on hint. Well, there's
a transcript once it once it processes
and comes up do a transcript. That's
true. Well, this video will always be
here. You guys can rewatch it, make your
own notes, etc. Um, we appreciate
everybody coming and I'm I'm reviewing
I'm let let me just soak this in a
little bit. Go ahead. So, are there any
advanced ciphers? There's one that
arguably could be considered slight
technowledge
needed and but it's not critical.
I don't know. I don't know what to make
of this. Okay. No red herrings. Love
that. No. Love that. No intentional red
herrings. We make everything do a red
herring. Like the combo safe. You know,
I think this one was big. As of March,
whatever today is 31st, 8:30 p.m.
2025. It's accessible 247.
That's a huge one. You don't have to pay
to get in. It's accessible 247. So, it
is not in a place that has hours,
doesn't that? That means not a national
park, right?
Right.
Can you Yeah. That boom. That's why you
subscribe to the C lasers challenge.
Wow. Uh that's pretty that's pretty
huge. He doesn't see why not sharing the
full solution. Oh. Oh, and the transfer
of the LLC. That's puzzling me because
that's somebody posted the picture. He
said he didn't transfer it. He said he
didn't transfer it. He just created it
in Wyoming. Is that That's what he said.
But Chad Bird, but didn't it say
transferred by written agreement? We saw
some picture. I call him out on it. You
have to our our internet slle in
Discord. Go pick that up. Chad Bird says
there are only two holes that matter to
him. Easy, Chad. Oh, nine mile hole or
the hole at White Sands. A couple of
other things. Ursa is a reference to the
big dip dip dipper and the bride is
Cassiopia. Well, no wonder who wouldn't
answer the favorite constellation. Well,
you know the funny part, Ursa, the main
point is Polaris, and Polaris is the is
the one star that connects the Little
Dipper to the Big Dipper. Where do you
think his Montana home is? Polaris,
Montana. Coincidence? He has a home in
Polaris, Montana. Yeah. Is that right?
That's what you just said. Everybody
knows that.
JBR says, "I mean, if you have to get to
Alaska, then I hope it's free to get
in." Yeah. I mean, obviously, we're
going to have to pay travel expenses. We
have to fly to Alaska or whatever if it
is in Alaska. But a lot of people are
like, "Why would he put Alaska on his
map if it's not in Alaska?" Yeah. And
Ursa is a bear reference because if you
This is Zeus's mistress that had the kid
and he was protecting him from the wife.
So, he made him bears and then threw him
up into So, for the mythology people,
you're going to go crazy. The astrology
people, you're going to go crazy. You go
crazy. You go. Okay. Ursa. Emma, our
friend from treasure hunt with us. Emma
says, "Ursa can be the little dipper."
Ursa just means bear in Latin.
You see, you see, okay, Ken, Oklahoma,
do you think he clarify one mile from a
non four-wheel four wheel drive road?
Here's what I think. Wherever you're
parking, he means once your feet are on
the ground from your car, you're not
going more than a mile. There you go.
Ursa is not capitalized in the poem.
What does that mean? And hole is good
point. And hole is good. Good point,
Suzanne. Okay. Hole is proper. We went
with the brown. The home of brown if for
the forest fen people. That means hole
is a named location, right? A proper
name like nine mile hole. Probably isn't
nine mile hole, but it could be. Okay.
Can it be found in wintertime? If did
you see he kind of dodged this question,
but did answer it. He said, "If there is
snow, don't search." He didn't say,
"There's not snow." Right. See? See?
Yeah. That's true. See, horn horn the
the horn horn the five horn thive beyond
the map's edge may not be on the map at
all. Get it? It's beyond the map's edge.
Exactly. Heard that one. Is the chest
just out there or is it like a geocache?
that he's saying it's not the replica,
but it's something we will immediately
recognize. So, speaking of a replica,
everybody, we've got breaking news. The
Treasure Hunt Amusement Park, that's
right, 3D Bronze, you know them, you
love them, has put up a replica chest on
eBay,
$16,000. But wait, Forest Fen Treasure
Hunt inspired bronze chest and Jack
Stoof signed bookmark. You guys don't
know, Jack Stoof is the one that found
Forest Fence treasure, sold it to Justin
through an LLC. Jack Stoof signed
bookmark. And look at this work. This
beauty right here. Uh, and this is
bronze, right? Yeah, this is uh treasure
hunt inspired bronze chest. Wow, that's
pretty awesome. I have one of those. My
honey got me one. Yes, I didn't pay
anywhere near that, but that's between
us. Uh, yeah, pretty awesome. I mean, if
you really were His has a key. His has a
wood lining. Yeah, his is probably Yeah,
it's 3D bronze 2022. 3D Bronze did that
himself. One of nine, everybody. Wow.
And this is an auction. You can do a buy
it now for
25,01 or you can do the auction which
ends Monday on our show Monday. So, we
will bring this back up Monday. 3D
bronze. I hope it sells 3D bronze. I do.
Okay. Okay. So, Mike, yes. I don't have
the book yet, so I couldn't know. How
would you know? He's saying forest fence
searchers do not have an advantage and
it is a container that we would
immediately recognize and it's not the
chest or replica chest. What did he say?
He said if you read the book, you will
know what it is. It's something in the
book. The book tells you what you're
looking for. What is it? Which book?
Beyond the map's edge. No. What is it in
the book? Oh, we don't know. That's the
trick. That's You have to find it, Mike.
You have to find it. So what I think is
if you solve some things uh in the book,
he's going to tell you what I think it's
pictured in the book somewhere, right?
It could be. And you know, one day when
I have accessibility to the book, we
will. Okay. How many hints? Stop rubbing
it in everybody. All right. Check it
out. This is a link to the eBay auction
for Mr. 3D Bronze right here. And K
probably need your phone when we're when
I get your video so I can upload the 3D
bronze treasure hunt that the kids had
fun. Robert says he tells us in the
book. Great. Tell me. I won't tell
anyone. Not the 470 people watching.
That's what we do. It's his truck. It's
his truck. Mike, you have to find his
truck. Well, what about that earn? What
if it's a We did buy digital and Mike
was going to give me the Kindle access
once he is through the book and it's
been days. You have to come down here
with your little laptop because it's
through this book hollow. It's different
than a normal Kindle. Can't just I have
to upload it with a file. It's a whole
thing. Capram, but I will give it to you
tonight for sure. And okay, another one.
Some are now researching your family
like your grandfather's amazing life. Is
it necessary for the solution? And he's
like, well, and you also asked him, I
think you asked two-part question. Yeah.
And it kind of confused it a little. Um,
I think he basically said, yeah, knowing
more of them might be helpful, but he
really just talked to he wasn't bothered
by it, which the question was really
more does it does it help for this
solution. Okay. Um, the N is in our
disc. Like a regular mom. I'm a cool
mom. I am a cool mom.
I'm a treasure hunting mom. Okay. We're
married if you guys don't know. Go
ahead. Well, someone said, "Why is she
so mean to him?" Because I'm married to
him and that's what wives do, I guess.
Okay. Um, so yeah, thumbs up. Thank you
for Justin coming on. Oh, no. I have
more. Oh, more. Hang on. This is the
biggest one. We can be here all night.
This is the biggest one. And we're
getting to the end, but do you have clue
verifications built in? He says he has a
checkpoint that we will know 100%. And
then Mike asked, "Will you have it?" And
he smiled like the canary cat canary in
the mouth and didn't answer. Maybe I
should have asked the next question. The
next question that I didn't ask was in
our treasure hunt, me and did me and
Capro did a treasure hunt for spend
coins and some other awesome things. In
our book, we had a phone number you
call. We have a website you go to. Huh?
I didn't ask. Why didn't you put it on
the list? It is. It's there. I skipped
over it. It's there. We had a phone
number you call. We had what I call uh
checkpoints where we would know how far
along you are in the puzzle. There may
be something like that in just a
checkpoint that he knows about a website
you go to, a phone number you call to
get a voicemail, a return email. I mean,
there's different ways. Why didn't we
ask that? Why did you skip? Because I
didn't think he would answer. I mean, I
just didn't think you would say it.
Gosh says the book is available now. Is
it on? Let's go to Amazon and take
on the map edge. So, here's the thing,
guys. You probably don't know this, but
down below we have some Amazon affiliate
links you could use to order the book if
you want. We get a whole penny for each
one, guys. We have all the treasure
hunting books, including The Thrill, the
Chase, The Secret, all that stuff. And
also down below in the description is um
our Discord, our Facebook group, hint of
riches.com and
unchartedcollectibles.com where go check
that out if you would like a collectible
for these. I have more. I have more.
Okay. Um and yeah, we could do this in
the sneak easy so everybody can chime
in. Um but I thought it was huge. He
said no man-made structure. It's not in
a man-made structure.
Um then we started getting into repeats.
He asked that question about lure and he
said yes. I didn't even understand the
question. Um so maybe I think that was
Cand's question so maybe she can help us
out there. Um can you talk about did you
regret putting anything in? He said
there was a special and then he stopped
and then he said collection. Collection
of what?
Justin 60bs. He says it's north of that.
Was the answer 60 included the container
or not? It included the container. It
did. Okay, it does include the
container. Whatever that I mean, get
whatever that means. I mean, how else
would he wear uh what do he weigh it? I
should say Treasure Hands said, "Just
checked and not available on Amazon.
Ordered on Barnes & Noble, though."
Yeah, I ordered on Barnes & Noble. It
still hasn't shipped, but I ordered it
like Friday. You know, the other one
that I wish we asked and we didn't and I
think we were just over on time. I
wanted to be respectful. He didn't
include traditional chapters. He did
these stories. Why? Was there a specific
reason? because chapters are
traditional. Um, I don't think I do have
that one. Spark plug, Sparky. Treasure
in search of the Golden Horse. I have a
lot of books linked. I don't think I
have that one. Good call. Uh, we have
some live audio and he
wouldn't the hell does that have to do
with treasure hunting? Oh, after this
show, you know what it has to do. We
bring you the break. Where did that come
from? Mike, that sounds like Bendy.
Bendy Bendy Jones. Shout out to Steve.
He just sent that to me. So, this is
what I need. I need somebody that can
take sound clips off of Netflix. I want
the one of Justin saying, "If somebody
offers you a ticket to ride, you get on
the ride." Or something like that. It's
at the end of episode 3, the ticket to
ride clip. If you can send that to me, I
would appreciate it. Okay, so you got
all the secret hints. Justin, I mean, he
gave out more information than I ever
thought he would ever I would have ever.
Um, it's amazing. It's awesome. Go into
our Discord. We just gave a bunch of
pennies. We talked about the GPS lock,
the earn, the coffee mugs, the lock on
the screen. This should be found by
tomorrow, guys. And just remember
though, it's going to be a little bit
different. Justin's going to know. Oh,
we should have asked him. Is he gonna Is
he gonna announce when it's found or
after the 30 days? I thought it said it
would be on the website. The countdown
would be on the website, but I could be
wrong. That was actually Hank Hill,
everybody. Not uh not Billy Bob
Thornton. Chad Bird's going crazy
tonight. Thanks, Chad Bird. Uh, hole is
very possible because of an ode the home
of Brown. The container is in the video
several times. Didn't answer if it was
buried. Why do you think it's 30 days
where warm waters halt? So, you're
saying the container is in the video
several times. What do you think it is?
No, that's the that's the one he said
it's not in and it was just holding that
like kind of flimsy leather thing. Yeah.
Clarifies this on the website
treasure.quest. The briefcase that is
shown in Netflix is not the container
that the treasure is hidden in. He did
not want to show the container, so he
just used that saddle bag briefcase to
do it for Netflix. Okay. Right now, why
do you think 30 days?
Um, I don't know. Well, well, what what
say? Put it under your bed for 30 days
and think about it. But if the steward
has other treasure items and he
confirmed that he does, how do you not
say, "Hey, because you can be anonymous.
You can be anonymous." Yeah. Here's my
thought. Um, 30 days is long enough.
Like, if we found it tomorrow and we
wanted to check with an attorney
or check with a friend or whatever, that
gives us a couple of weeks to work
through that. And at the absolute most,
after 30 days, he's probably saying,
"You're never going to contact me." So,
I'm willing at 30 days to cut it.
Because I'm assuming he's not going to
give the solution till after that window
is up. So, he didn't want to. Two weeks
would be too short. Two months would be
too long. One month, 30 days. Boom.
Right there. Imagine. Does he Does he
say how much the meteorite weighs? I
don't think he does. Oh, but it's the
one in his hand that Yeah, they show a
picture of it, but I don't think he said
how much it weighs, right? Yeah, they'll
contact lawyer, financial advisors, etc.
Debbie knows. Yeah, knows how long did
it take you for your 100 grand.
Uhhuh. Yeah, it's the incentive to
report the F. I did find it interesting.
It's not just Bitcoin. That's what do
you think that Steuart is holding other
than Bitcoin and why? Oh, he said he
couldn't fit anymore in the in this
vessel. I want to know what the vessel
is. Do you think it's You know that dog
statue inside the dog statue?
I thought he said if you read the book,
you'll know. But again, I'm need to
rewatch this. Obvious. He said obvious
recognizable to all. Everyone loves the
Netflix videos from all accounts. So,
will they make more treasure hunting
stuff? I don't know why Hollywood hasn't
made a big treasure hunt in the movie
theaters. Like, I don't know why this
hasn't been done years ago. I know there
are some issues with certain legal
things, but I don't know why it hasn't
been done before now. But a big thank
you to Justin Posie for making it
happen. Someone noted they said we don't
encourage anyone to treasure hunt. They
don't direct you to Justin's website.
They don't say that he has a book.
Basically, it's like a little mystery
that you then jump on the internet and
you could find pretty quickly. I'm gonna
say um just to be honest, and this is
not a slight towards Justin, this is a
slight towards Jared and his team.
Um documentaries typically are factually
based. There are so many factual errors.
I do not um I do not think when they say
everybody loved Netflix, um there were
parts and times that I think everyone
was frustrated. That's either in it or a
part of the hunt. like representing that
Justin didn't actually buy the chest.
How could you factually get it more
wrong? The Rudy part that suck. There
was a lot of factual inaccuracies. If
they would have called themselves a docu
drama, but um I think one searcher that
I think one searcher put it perfectly.
It's kind of a professional
embarrassment rather than a knock on any
of the participants because it was how
it was edited and things and just it's
factually incorrect. And a documentary
being factually incorrect. It's kind of
like if you had a murder mystery but
nobody was murdered. It it wasn't in
that regard. I would say it's less
than ideal. Okay. So David because we do
have some new people. David says what
WTF is there's treasure inside. Are
there two treasure hunts for millions?
Yes, there are. And we've done a bunch
of shows on there's treasure inside. And
treasure inside also has a forest fen
box that has the olive jar and some
other forest fan items. So, there are
two different treasure hunts going on.
Both inspired by forest. Yeah. Yeah.
Both inspired by forest, but different.
So, there's treasure inside is a totally
different thing. And uh we'll pro we'll
get back to there's treasure inside
eventually, but this is the latest. This
is the greatest. This is in Netflix. Me
and KPRO, if you didn't know, we were in
Netflix as well. some of the YouTubers.
So, this is the one we're going to work
on. Chad
Bird going crazy tonight. If we all
pitch in 10K, we can rent time on a
supercomput to crack the Shaw 512 that
can location. I feel so bad for the
Hurst boys. Um, that is a good point.
Does is the That's a good point. It did
sound like Justin in the uh treasure
quest frequently asked questions, it did
make it sound like the digital
fingerprint might be the location. So,
you're not going to be able to crack it
with a super computer. You need a
quantum computer that's 20 years down
the road. Okay, you guys want to hear
something funny? My daughter comes
downstairs and she says, "I have a
problem with this hunt and if this is
what it means and you explain it to me
how I'm thinking it, I'm not
participating." And I said, "What?" And
she said, "He wants my fingerprint
before I can get the treasure." And I
said, "Fingerprinting?" She goes, "I'm
not giving my personal information." I
said, "Where does he say that you need
the fingerprint?" And so she read the
thing that said the digital fingerprint.
She's like, "Well, that's what it means.
I'm going to put that on the the digit."
Be a teenager again, folks. She's so
cute. I love that. Not your fingerprint.
Yeah, Netflix documentaries are not true
documentaries. That is a good point. I
didn't realize that. I thought
documentaries meant documentaries.
They're Okay, so they're kind of crappy
documentaries. Got In my opinion, I gave
the Netflix documentary a B+. I think
it's a good story. It's just not
factually accurate in all aspects.
That's all. I thought they implied he
bought the chest. He did, but he used
this LLC to do it, Dan. And then they
auctioned off most of the items. No, but
I don't think they implied that. They
implied the opposite. In episode three,
Justin said, "I was planning on buying
the treasure chest and all the items and
rehide it, but now I'm going to plan B,
and they never shored that up at the
end." So, I know a lot of conspiracy
theorists said, "See, you guys bought
fake stuff at auction, etc." No, it was
just really poor documentary making.
Um, David Sant, you you're lucky to have
that wife. My wife got me both books and
now my life is treasure hunting. So, he
got Beyond the Maps Edge and TTI. That's
pretty awesome. There's so few. And some
people have asked me, are you now no
longer working on TTI? I can't. I have a
location. He JCB has put a hard stop on
his hunt until snow is melted. So I will
be going boots on the ground. Oh. Oh
yes, I will. Um what am I enthusiastic
about? One that I can actually work on
it. Not get started then just stop. So
if you are new to to there's treasure
inside. Definitely watch our video from
a couple months ago on the past and f on
the past and future box with the word
search because we did break the secret
message that's in the word search. Um so
yeah, check that out. Okay. Can I buy
the documentary without having to
without having to subscribe to Netflix
for several months? I don't think so. I
think you have to. Now, you can do a
it's what $5.99 or $7.99 and you can get
a 30-day free trial. If you're a brand
new subscriber, you get a 30-day free
trial. Just watch it and then um yeah,
cancel the subscription. What does that
mean? Yeah, Louie is in here. Louie is
in our chat and watches and we're hoping
to have Louie on next week. So,
hopefully Monday's show. I haven't
confirmed it with him yet, but we will
get Lou be on here. I want to hear about
Netflix, how they filmed. I want to hear
what he thinks of this new treasure hunt
as well. Look at Look at Buck's I don't
have anything from you, Buck, but Buck
said he sent you something. He's the he
he's the master wizard of clipping
stuff. All right. I heard there was or
is a free stream. Duke, know what we
did, and it's completely legal. Um, we
did a private um, it's almost like a a
watch party at your house as long as you
had under a certain number of people,
which we did and we didn't monetize. We
and I think all but two people had one
had watched it already, so they already
had Netflix, but we went about every 10
to 15 minutes and then we cut it off and
talked about it. It took us five and a
half hours. It was amazing. Um, yeah. I
want to know what kind of snake bit
Lou's face off and almost lost an eye.
Yeah, I don't know. Um, my understanding
of Justin getting the friend treasure
that he was trying to buy it and then it
was put up for auction and he was able
to purchase items. No, Burker Kerr, he
is the one that put it on auction at
Heritage. He is the buyer and then he
sold all of it but a few items. So, and
he kind of confirmed that tonight, but
we knew that because we got invited to
go down to Heritage. We were able to
view it. All of that. Go ahead, Mike.
Thank you Chad Bird once again. Thank
you all and to Justin. I really think
the clues point to the fact JP starts
his poem where forest fence ended and
ended where forest start. That's the
nine mile hole connection. Could it be
that on a map that's like your starting
point? That's your what you think? Yes,
that's interesting. Yes. I need to
reread the poem in that context and
reread the book. I've only read about
half the book. I have not finished the
book yet. So, all right. Steve just sent
this. It's kind of long, but do you want
me to uh want me to play? It is. So, I
don't know. That's another funny clip.
It's about 30 seconds. Oh, that's long.
But okay. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah.
There's Lou B in the one of the in the
house Netflix golden Japanese rat snake.
So, does that mean it eats rats?
I liked how when you were going back to
get the treasure lub you had sandals on
for your boots on the ground when you
had the flat tire. I thought that was
funny. Anyway, all right. Here we go.
Thanks to uh thanks to Was it Steve that
sent this? Yeah. Thanks to Steve. There
we go. Live audio. Yes. Hello. I'm
calling in on the Forest Fin hotline,
and I was kind of wondering if Jerry
Lewis was available to speak to. Well,
anyways, I'm just calling to let you
know that some snot-nosed kid with a
global positioning satellite beat me to
the punch, found the treasure, and now
he's trying to sell the dang thing. Do
you know how hard it is for an
80-year-old lady from Jersey to get on
an airplane, fly out to Bosezeman, rent
a car, go down to Yellowstone National
Park, and then lose an aluminum walker
in the Madison River. Well, tell Jack
that he owes me a walker with tennis
balls. All right. Thank you, Forest Fan
Hotline. And we do have a phone a phone
line. Sometimes we open up the phone
lines. Not tonight. We're going to speak
easy, guys. So then everybody can
chitchat. Everybody can weigh in. super
secret clues. What did we miss? Justin,
we're gonna be analyzing your facial
recognition where you
pause. Can we borrow your code? And
yeah, that was awesome. Okay, everybody,
thank you for tuning in. Thank you for
thumbs up, subscribe, comment, share,
all that fun stuff. 500. We were over
500. Haven't done that in a long time.
That's the power of Justin Posy's hunt.
I wanted to ask him how many books sold,
but I meant to ask him that as well. Uh,
so down below in the description,
there's a link to Discord and one of the
Discord channels. says, "Let's talk
about it." We all jump in there. It's
audio only and people talk about uh the
J the Justin Posie interview and uh of
course makes sense to me. Justin has
written many guide books that you can
only see on Goodreads but can't buy. The
only one in the US is for Montana. Get
Can you provide a link? Good sir.
Wow. Okay. Okay. He's $10 super chat
from Chad Bird. He's standing in the
meadow near the junction looking back
west. Turn around from east. Do you mean
that picture of Justin and his dog
staring out? I'm not sure what you mean
more by that. He's standing in the
meadow near the junction. All right.
Thank you for the super chats, guys.
Okay. I need to have dinner. Uh and
we're going to be in the speak easy. Uh
Craig Carter says his new AI program's
already in development. Yeah, speak
easy. Be there or be squared there. This
was an impactful day. This was an
inflection point. He answered so many
things. Thank you, Justin. You info and
no Justin he'll have the answers all or
he'll link to this on the website by
tomorrow to make it fair for everybody.
He'll probably write a code that makes
it all first picture in the book. Okay,
Chad. Thanks. All right, everybody.
Thank you. We go live Mondays,
Thursdays, and we go live whenever
there's breaking news. So, we will see
you next
time. Appreciate it. Thanks, Justin.

MW Six Questions — Beyond the Map's Edge (2 Apr 2025)
https://mysteriouswritings.com/justin-posey-six-questions-on-beyond-the-maps-edge-treasure-hunt/

Q1: When did you decide to make a treasure hunt?
A: I had idle thoughts of hiding a treasure throughout the search for Forrest Fenn's treasure. I got serious about hiding the treasure around the middle of 2022, and I hid the treasure in 2023. Creating this hunt has been therapeutic. The poem contains at least ten clues. Ten breadcrumbs leading to my container of wonders.

Q2: Advice for new searchers? Trail or off trail?
A: No fancy equipment needed. Previous treasure-hunting experience? Irrelevant. The treasure isn't lurking near any trail. I didn't want hikers accidentally stumbling upon it.

Q3: How will searchers know they have the correct meaning?
A: My treasure hunt has a built-in checkpoint. I tried to balance exactitude with the requirement to actually leave one's house.

Q4: Clues in the book and Netflix?
A: There are some good hints in the series, but I needed a safety net in case Netflix cut my clues. I had exclusive creative control over my book, so I put many eggs in that basket. Someone technically might be able to crack the poem in isolation.

Q5: Did writing the book bring closure? Safety?
A: Writing Beyond the Map's Edge was a surprisingly cathartic experience. Nothing dangerous is required. Review the Safety Guidelines. Nature demands respect.

Q6: Surprises? How long will it last?
A: The response has been far beyond what I ever imagined. I hope the hunt lasts at least a few months. Beyond that, I'm ambivalent about its timeline. Trade your computer screens for hiking boots, if only temporarily.

Hey guys, exciting news. We have a
special guest tonight. We have Justin
Posie here from Beyond the Maps Edge.
Let's jump right in. I'm Emma. I'm Jam.
And I'm Justin. That's awesome. Welcome
to Treasure Home with us. We're so
excited. Thank you so much for making
time with us. We know it's been a crazy
crazy ride. Well, thank you for having
me. Yeah, it's good to be here.
Absolutely. Before we get started with
the super hard-hitting questions, we
want to make sure we ask a question
that's super important to our community.
And we know that when when we ask this,
it gives you an opportunity to really
nail it down. Is there anybody besides
you who knows where the treasure is?
There is not a soul that knows but me. I
am the only person on the planet.
That's important to know. People should
not be bothering your family, especially
when other I mean they could bother you
clearly, but they should not be
bothering any of your family, any of
your friends. They don't know. Don't ask
them. Don't bother them. He signed up
for the hunt. They didn't. Let's put
that to bed. Yeah, it's true. It's
actually I mean, there's not a soul
alive that would be able to help
anybody. So, this is uh everybody's on
equal footing here.
Excellent. Excellent. Now, this is an
important question. It's probably the
most important question for both of us.
We're going to actually ask it together.
Where's the box?
Who says it's a box? Oh, you got it. Oh
my gosh. Oh my gosh. We have a
long-standing bet that we intend to tell
you about throughout this process. Yes.
I'm hoping I don't lose. Well, listen.
If that's if that's where we are and it
might not be a box, let's ask a less
conspicuous question, then. It sounds
like the printing process was a little
bit difficult. Um, is it okay to ask how
many books were printed in your first
round? You know, that's a great
question. I actually don't even know
myself. The the way that the the
printing process works, especially with
the wholesalers, is that the the
reporting is delayed. And so, at this
point, uh, I don't have any accurate
numbers. I mean, I think it's safe to
say that there was, you know, at least
6700, if not if not more books. Um, my
my best guess might be
around, you know, uh, maybe maybe as
much as 1500. It's really hard for me to
say right now. Really? Yeah, I bet you
there's more than that sold. Oh, it's
it's it's possible. I noticed that it,
you know, it peaked the or was in the
Amazon top 100 best sellers for a little
while. So, uh, yeah, all that reporting
is delayed and of course the royalties
and all that get delayed as well. So, I
suspect I won't have exact numbers until
uh you know, maybe maybe as much as a
month or two out. We we'll have to see.
For what it's worth, we were sure you'd
sold at least 100,000. Oh my goodness.
Wow. Yeah, that would we expect you to
sell that many. So, we really do. We
really do. That would be pretty wild. I
have a question. You mentioned that if
someone will there's a checkpoint built
in and when you get to it, you're 100%
going to know you're there in that
checkpoint. Is that a boots on the
ground checkpoint or is that a I before
I go boots on the ground, oh my gosh,
myself's right on point because of this
checkpoint. Now I feel comfortable going
out. That's not something I've I've
specified. Um,
I might reconsider that in the future,
but for now, I'm I'm going to have to
avoid answering that one. That's okay.
You're welcome to come back anytime.
Yes.
So, we're both obsessed with your book.
We may have read it several times each.
We are currently breaking it down um
into little chunks. We thought we'd do
it in thirds and then we started
realizing as we dive in like we don't
call it chapters, we call them stories.
Like each section is a story, right?
Because for us it's like getting into
the mind, knowing the man to solve the
puzzle. Are there clues in every story
or are some of them just stories that
are informational to get to know you?
Yeah, I mean, you know, I I originally
wasn't even planning to write a book,
you know, and and the the only there's
two reasons I chose to write it. One is
that, you know, I think it's fair to say
that someone would have to get to know
me a little bit to make sure that
they're on equal footing with with
everybody else. So if you know somebody
had been my friend or a family member
over the years then I didn't want them
to have any sort of substantial leg up.
Um and the other reason is because I had
no creative control over you know the
Netflix series and so yeah I wanted to
make sure if if you know worst case
everything got cut out uh there was some
sort of avenue for me where I had some
creative control where I could actually
convey some hints. And so that really
was the two main uh purposes for the
book. So no, I mean I don't think every
story in there uh has a hint, but it's
fair to say that they're they're they're
sprinkled throughout. The stories are
great. I'm really enjoying them because
they're just they're just fun
excitement. I mean, it's just good
times. Do you have a favorite story in
the book? Oh gosh. Uh thought about
that. Um they're so good. Yeah. Well,
yeah. It's funny because I I actually
wrote the majority of this within, you
know, like a few week time frame where I
just kind of banged out a lot of Oh,
wow. a lot of stories. Uh and and the
book was going to get a little unwieldy.
It already feels like it's a little big,
but I suppose worst case it might be
good kindling for somebody. I hate for
them to have to pay money for it, but
standalone book. So, yeah, I actually
liked it. There was a number of stories
that I I actually ended up cutting uh
just because I felt like it got a little
large. Um so, you know, um of the
stories that remain, boy, my favorite
one that that's kind of tough. Uh I
guess I have a bit of an affinity for
the uh the postal pilgrimage, but it
might not be for everybody. Oh my gosh.
We actually we we we actually we're
going to cut another video tomorrow. Uh,
and that's we're at that spot. I've been
dying to talk about the postal
pilgrimage because I don't know how like
I'm allergic to bees. So, when a bee
gets near me, I stop and I kind of hold
still and people panic around me and
it's this big. I can't fathom two
snakes. I would I would have freaked. I
would have freaked. I've had a a
lifelong fear of of snakes ever since
that incident. Actually, I've had a few
other snake incidents after that as
well. It's my biggest fear of boots on
the ground is snakes. one too because of
her and my oldest sister. So, spear
snakes now. Thanks a lot, guys.
We didn't traumatize him. We We future
life educated. We future life educated.
Okay, this one's an interesting
question. And Mike Kazar is the one who
kind of posted it to me. He said, "When
when the treasure is found, will you
post a 30-day countdown on your
website?"
Uh, yeah. I think I will. I think that's
only fair. That's Oh, I love that you
always think about things from being so
fair. That's so huge. Yeah, it it's huge
because it says you don't want people
out there hunting when something's been
done already. And I think obviously
that's part of your experience. Yeah,
that's
um you know, I think Forest used to say,
you know, do you want somebody who you
know, went to college for 10 years uh in
a mechanic school to work on your car
versus somebody who's actually been
working on cars for 10 years. Um right,
you know, the best that I can muster is
that I spent 10 years looking for a
treasure. of course I didn't I didn't
find uh but I think along the way there
was a lot of of thought and
uh it was really mainly around what what
I would do to prevent some of the
frustrations that I felt throughout the
experience and and and I think that's
one of them you know I mean there's
still some kind of controversy I think
swirling around that ending in terms of
when it was even actually found versus
retrieved and so on and I I prefer to
avoid that if possible. Yeah. I'm sure.
I'm sure. Speaking of that hunt and uh
Tucker, everybody loves Tucker. He could
out there. You can't bring him to Nine
Mile Hole. Do you regret just being
like, "Ah, I'm going to bring Tucker
anyways. I don't care about the rules."
You know, I Yeah, another great
question. Um my worst fear was doing
something that would get me banned from
the park where I couldn't search
anymore. Um, and so, you know, I mean, I
think it'd be pretty conspicuous, uh,
pretty much any hour for, you know, a
dog to be crossing the river right
there. You know, it's a pretty popular
spot for for tourists to stop along that
stretch of road. So, it just, you know,
was a it was a risky endeavor and, you
know, it's not something that I think,
you know, Tucker could cover in like one
outing. So, right, it would have been a
dangerous proposition. Yeah, that's
interesting because so we're very I
always joke that we're freshman we're
freshman treasure hunters. So we're like
I mean I I think we're what three months
old in our our treasure hunting world.
Um I didn't even know you can get banned
from a from a state park. I mean I
believe if if anybody could do it, it
would probably be me. I'm really good at
getting banned from things, but I didn't
know until this moment that that could
happen. But I do have a quick followup
on that 30-day uh question. So, your
website says that, you know, and really
our goal here is to protect hunters from
making a dumb mistake. You know, the
website says that if you don't don't
tell you within 30 days that you'll lose
out on the Bitcoin, but it also says you
could lose legal rights for the
treasure. The reason I asked this is
what I don't want is somebody to think,
"Oh, I just don't I don't need the
Bitcoin. I've got this massive box or
container or if you're asking him,
bronze statue of treasure." Um, and I'm
not going to tell anybody about it, but
is that really there also to protect
somebody from losing their rights to the
treasure?
Yeah, there's some there's some
additional legal paperwork that's on
file with the steward that would be uh
quite important for the finder to have.
So I, you know, I, you know, I can't
control every variable in this equation,
but I think it's fair to say that it
should be apparent through um, you know,
the documentation that's also included
with the the treasure itself that
they'll need to contact that steward.
And additionally, there's some other
items that are kept with the steward uh,
as well that would be of interest to uh,
to whoever finds this. Fantastic. That's
awesome. You know the name of the book
Beyond the Map's Edge, the poem Beyond
the Map's Edge. So, it begs the
question, is this treasure beyond your
map's edge or is it actually on the map?
Please tell me it's not in Alaska. No,
don't have to tell me. I'm just saying.
Yeah, that that's actually been a pretty
common question. Um,
you know, that the treasure is
absolutely hidden somewhere on the map
that I've I've published. So, you know,
somebody's looking in another state or
something like that. Yeah. I mean,
you're
Yeah. Dang it. Exactly.
That's fair. Okay. So, this next
question I have is Oh, you had no
creative control in Netflix. I can't
imagine how completely frustrating that
had to be because you're hiding clues,
right? My real question is, and we've
had this asked over and over and over
again, is that clock actually moving?
Um, is it Oh, you mean like is it was it
a functional clock? Yes. Was it? I mean,
I know it's a functional clock, but was
it functioning during the filming of the
show because um it was at 419 in quite a
few scenes. It seems almost impossible
to be at 419. That that might have been
a little uncanny, I think, is all I can
say.
I love these answers. I love them.
They're so great. I love it.
So you're you are an a lifetime clearly
treasure hunter for big treasures too.
And are you actively trying to solve any
current treasure hunts? You know, not
limited to but like the JCB there's
treasure inside.
Yeah, I'm actually um I've gotten quite
a few messages from from different
people that are searching for different
treasures around the world. Um, yeah.
So, you know, there's there's the world
is your oyster, so to speak. There's a
lot of options out there. So, you know,
ever since Forest Treasure Hunt, um, you
know, I've been wrapped up in some other
hobbies, but, you know, there hasn't
really been a particular treasure hunt
that's re resonated with me enough for
me to say, I want to jump on top of
this. I did some reconnaissance. I went
down to a few other countries and um uh
yeah, just some extended travel to to
kind of decide whether or not, you know,
just get my feet wet and decide whether
or not I wanted to spend time on some of
these. Um and there's there's a few kind
of on the back burner, but I haven't
committed to anything right now. That's
awesome. That's fair. And that's super
fair because as what we're learning is
that it does kind of become all
consuming, right? like you talk in the
in the the series about, you know, you
you had a regular job. We have regular
jobs, but uh I he lives on the West
Coast and I'm on the East Coast, so as
you imagine, the second I'm off, I'm now
a treasure hunter. And so sleep has
become optional. Um and I don't know how
some people make it work. I would love
to do a treasure hunt in the UK if you
know of one. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's I
mean there's there's a lot of options
out there. Um, yeah, it's also kind of
interesting with the land designation. I
think parts of the UK are a little bit
challenging. Um, you know, just because
of a lot of private land, I think, but
um, yeah, there's a lot of variables
there. So, it's it's just it's tough to
choose. Yeah. Oh, I hear you. So, my
next question is not it's not really a
hard question. I know these have all
been real dingers. Um, but it is kind of
it's a two-parter, but I'll ask it in
two parts because one of them is part of
our question and one of them came from
Discordan. Um, for us it's you talk
about the compass for you being Brandon,
Tucker, your dad, and your grandpa, but
in the site you recall it as Brandon,
Tucker, your dad, and grandpa, but in
the book it's Tucker, Brandon, your dad,
and your grandpa. Do they each designate
a specific site on the compass?
Um, I you know I think anything related
to that I think the book is probably the
best reference. We'll put it that way.
Oh, that's good. Okay. And Chasing
Indies. Wait, no. Let me get Chasing
Indie. I don't want her to feel like I
didn't do her question justice. Okay.
I'm gonna read it because I would
butcher this. Okay.
Regarding the four points of the
compass, do each of the points help you
find the starting point, wisdom, the
bride, the brother, the babbling brook,
the grandfather, and the exact spot
you're seeking, the wagging tail.
Uh, it's a good question and I think one
that I will have to punt on. Nice. Do
that. I, you know, it was I was trying
to read that exactly as it's written
because I'm like, I'm gonna butcher
this. I'm gonna butcher this question.
She would have
You talk about excitement and
anticipation when you're out hunting,
finding the next clue, possibly finding
the treasure, and the the the excitement
it builds inside of you. Are you waking
up every day going, "Oh my god, is my my
treasure found today?" I mean, what's
that like every day? Yeah. I feel I feel
resolute. You know, it's it's going to
be found when it's going to be found.
And it could be something that happens
as we're talking right now, or it could
be something that happens in a month or
goodness, even longer than that. really
I really don't know the timeline. It's
just it's so hard to say. Uh but what I
have seen is just a huge influx of of
messages. Uh and you know it's just so
many that I'm just not able to keep up.
So I I do peruse them. Um you know
there's there it's fair to say that
there are certain of course areas and
and maybe some keywords and so on that
I'm uh uh a little little interested
more than others. Uh so I you know I I
keep an eye on those sorts of things. Uh
but beyond that I just feel kind of uh
almost like a spectator at this point.
You know I don't uh it's just going to
happen when it happens.
I guess then I have to ask an important
question. What's the container?
No. Did I not sneak that in there
properly?
No. The ca the container is
uh I think I mentioned maybe before it's
it's extremely recognizable and it's
something that uh you know I mean when
someone sees it there there will be zero
no doubt. Yeah. Well, let me ask you
this as a followup to that. How much
does that bronze Tucker statue weigh?
Oh. Oh, the one that Yeah. So, I think
it's in the the Netflix series and it's
sitting on the ground. Yeah, that thing
is heavy. Uh oh, man. Thank you. Thank
you, Justin. Thank you. There's a number
of people who think that that's where
your treasure is, like it's a stuffed
piggy bank. I'm like, that thing's got
to be at least 100 pounds before you add
treasure. Yeah. I actually I haven't
weighed it, but my guess just ballpark
is
probably 70 to 80 pounds. Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And it's hollow, too. It's not like
solid bronze, but it's uh it's very
heavy. Yeah, it's hollow. It's hollow.
70 to 80 pounds. He said minimum 60. He
just mentioned he buried this treasure
with a broken leg.
I just want to bet Justin, just so we're
clear. And KPro, I can't wait to tell
her, too. Um, but you buried this
treasure with a broken leg. How I mean,
how hard was it to carry a treasure over
60 pounds from your car with a broken
leg? Yeah. Yeah, most a mile, but still
that's far. It Yeah. So, I mean, well, I
haven't specified whether or not it's
buried, so I'll say hidden. You you you
displayed a treasure that we will all
recognize somewhere while having a
broken leg. It could be the bronze
Tucker sitting on top of a buried
treasure. We don't know. He's not giving
it away. It took several trips to hide
this. Um, that's fair. You know, I'm I'm
trying to recall the count.
Um, oh, let me do a little mental math
here. Let's see.
At
least at least four trips from from my
car. Oh my god. Wow. You didn't have to
have crutches or anything. I hope so. I
don't know how you did that. It was It
was not easy. I'll put it that way. Um,
and when I say my car, it wasn't
actually any of my vehicles. I think
that would have been uh tracked far too
easily. So I I found other means. You
just ruined someone's soul who said they
followed your truck. No, we just found
out he took a horse from Texas all the
way to wherever he You know what? I
would have thought it was a horse from
Texas to Alaska. That's what I would
have thought the whole time.
That'd be quite the endeavor.
He's like it only took seven years.
Seven years to hide the treasure. Yeah.
Then someone finds it first day. Oh man.
All right. You were asked a question.
This is gets brought up all the time.
People debate about it. You got asked a
question about a cipher. And the
response was you couldn't help but add a
technical clue. Now I'm in IT, so I'm
like technical clue. That's not a
cipher. But everybody else thinks that
could possibly be a cipher. Is it a
cipher or is it a technical clue?
Um, I mean there's kind of there's
really like I mean there's really two
elements at play and I think
um one of them would squarely be
consider considered a a cipher of sorts,
but it's it's certainly not any sort of
advanced cipher or anything like that.
Um it's thank god I would consider it as
very approachable. And then you had me
at the poem for the technical part.
Yeah. And then the other the other
element to this
um you know I think arguably could
require a little bit of of technical
knowhow but there are other ways to
uncover it that uh would require very
minimum sort of technical knowledge at
all. And you know, it's not something
that is a super critical clue or
anything like that, but it was just
something that I I couldn't resist.
Yeah. All clues are good clues till you
have a container in your hand. So, but I
do have a follow-up on the cipher. Would
it would it be more the cipher more
towards the poem or the book?
Ah. Um I haven't uh I haven't specified.
Okay, that's fair. Hey, that is totally
fair. Mhm. Um, my next question is one
we get, which is like as if we would
have a clue. We're like, "Oh, yes. We're
going to be interviewing Justin." Will
you be doing any book signings? Oh, wow.
Yeah, I actually gotten that question a
lot. I at first I thought, "Boy, I don't
want to tank the value of anybody's book
by signing it." Uh,
uh, but uh, yeah, I mean, so the the
illustrator Michelle at some point
mentioned she may be available uh, you
know, domestically here in the US. And
so, uh, I was I'm co coordinating with
her and I think we can we can work out a
date. Um, I don't know any particulars
yet, but I'll I'll certainly announce it
as as ahead of time as I can to give
people sure if they really wanted to
actually, you know, travel somewhere or
something wild like that. But, um, TBD.
Yeah, that's a great answer. That's
great. I think it's great. This is the
best time to be a treasure hunter. It's
exploding. There's just huge treasure
hunts popping up all over the place and
they're fun. Like this is a fun treasure
hunt. Everybody I'm talking to is just
really enjoying themselves. Thank you so
much for doing this. We really
appreciate it from not just me but from
the whole treasure community. We really
appreciate you. So
here's here's why I think people asked
us tonight. We're going to be giving
away three Beyond the Maps Edge books.
And the first thing people ask is are
they signed? And I'm like, "No."
Unfortunately, I got these from Barnes &
Noble. One day he will be signing books.
So maybe possibly you can get these
books are emlazed with gold leaf. No,
these are just Noles books. They are
not. Do not say that people. Listen, I
know I should. That was a joke. That was
a joke for you people out there. There
is no I have no gold. All my gold is
fake. Read your legal stuff about the
giveaway. I have to read a legal
contesting. So, this contest is not
sponsored by YouTube or Justin Posey.
We're solely responsible for the contest
and delivering the prize to winners.
Unfortunately, you must live in the
United States primarily because we don't
know how to ship a book without dealing
with all the legal paperworks and
potentially tariffs. Maybe in the
future. Maybe in the future. We'd love
to find a way to get it to you. Our goal
is to encourage people to treasure hunt
with us. So, if you could rep respond to
this uh show by 5:00 p.m. Pacific
Standard Time on on April the 10th, 2025
with the word Tucker. We will put your
comment through a randomizer and three
lucky people will get one of these books
sent out by me on Friday.
That is super cool, you guys. Super
cool. I I just I still think it's funny
how many people have a copy of the book
before I've gotten a hold of one. So,
A lot of people are struggling. They're
waiting and waiting. They're so excited.
Mine's written in. Nobody wants mine now
either. It's like all my little notes,
my chicken scratch. And yeah, we It's I
mean, we knew that people were going to
struggle. The moment that I heard about
the book, we actually we were watching a
KPro and Kellazar live and they were
talking KPro knew. She's like, I think
that there's a treasure hunt coming. I
think that there's a hunt before anybody
else really was sure. And I'm like, and
then the moment Mike said, there's a
book you can pre-order. I jumped on and
I ordered five. immediately.
Immediately. I got two at my house. One
went to him, one went to my mom, and the
other one will be delivered to me
sometime. And I'm okay with that because
I have what I need to read what I need
to read. And then of course, we got the
ebooks because there's a slight
difference. I heard from a guy. I know.
Now I got to I got to go page by page,
find the difference. It's more work.
Well, we're very grateful for all the
time you've given us. We will get this
posted. We will not, just so everybody
out there in the YouTube world knows, we
did not, we did all this together live.
We will not cut anything. You will see
it in its entirety, but we are really
bad at it this side of it because I
glitch on occasion and we just don't
want to risk being live and having a
glitch happen. So, thank you so much for
coming. If you ever are bored and you're
like, I just want to talk to some fun
people who are a little wild and crazy,
call us. We're here for you. Thank you
guys so much. Yeah, it's been a real
pleasure being on the show. I really
appreciate your time. No, thank you for
making it work for us.

The Hollywood Reporter — Tony Maglio — 9 Apr 2025
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/justin-posey-treasure-clues-update-forrest-fest-netflix-doc-1236186094/

Justin Posey told THR:

He made the decision to set up hidden clues "pretty early" in the Netflix process. He is a subject, not a producer. The book is "selling well."

"There are some good hints in the series. There are much better hints in the book."

Hints in the series can "help you with the treasure itself," and they can "certainly help you with the book."

On value: "I'm trying to avoid some of the mistakes that Forrest had made as part of his treasure hunt. The big advice that I've gotten from attorneys is never, never say a value, because that actually gives a basis for a lot of legal issues down the road. For instance, if I said it's valued at this amount, and someone took it to an appraiser and that appraiser assigned a different amount, then there's basis for lawsuits."

"I think it's fair to say that it's substantial. Just one of those gold bars alone, based on the price of gold today, is pretty close to $100,000 a piece."

"A lot of older historical items" in the chest. "One of them I paid $50,000 for alone — years ago. I don't know what the value is today, but quite a few things like that."

There's also a meteorite.

Early Netflix investor (2003). Squarely middle-class family. Fake gold bar on Christmas as a kid.

"At least a couple hundred people" searching. "I've been getting over 1,000 messages an hour." Shut down DMs on X and Instagram.

"I realized it was going to be on Netflix, but I never expected to hit the Netflix top 10 — especially worldwide."

Too soon to say if anyone is genuinely close. There are "definitely" hunters who "have had some good thoughts."

Exclusive to THR: "You don't need a high-clearance vehicle to find the treasure."

Okay. So, so what I was starting to say
before was a couple weeks ago Justin
asked me if I would ask the questions
for the Q&A and I said, "Are you crazy?"
Because you never know what I'm going to
say. And he assured me that he was good
with it. So, it's like I am honored to
be the one to ask the questions. But
what Justin doesn't know is for every
question that he says he won't answer,
I'm going to hit him with a shot of bear
spray, which I have. which I have and
and
I'm going to start in the center of his
body like I myself and then we will work
from there.
Thank
All right. I think we're gonna start
with the question. I actually want to
I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I I am
kidding.
Uh I actually want to say a lot more,
but I know we're pressed for time now.
Got a little behind schedule today. So,
thanks for being patient. I really
appreciate it. Uh but we'll fire off
some questions here and see where we
land. Do you want to start with some of
the questions or would you like me to
read them?
Um here we can share. Yeah. Okay. You
stay you stay seated and I can stand.
Can we do that? See you sit. Sit. I'll
sit. Okay. We'll see.
We'll we'll see if this works. Okay.
Okay. Don't be.
Okay. Forest F clue was WW. Can you tell
us what is your first clue in your poem?
[Music]
Yes.
Uh, I won't go for the bird, but I want
to make sure I get it right. So, I want
to look at my own poem to make sure. Can
I take a look at it? Is there somebody
has a book handy by chance? Hey,
okay, I want to make sure I answer this
correctly. Um,
I think the most
actionable
first clue in the poem
that gives you
sufficient context
would be
as hope surges clear and bright.
Okay, there you go. Okay, good one. Good
one.
Good one.
Okay. Question number two. This is what
most of us want to know.
Has anyone reached the checkpoint?
There you go.
Is it good? You know, you know what? You
could speak. Yeah. No, let's keep doing
this because then I can hear him. If I'm
here, I can't hear him. Okay. But thank
you.
H
to my uncertain knowledge.
No.
Whoa.
I'll also say that as far as I know,
surprisingly actually uh I have not
heard anyone mention the correct answer
to the cipher yet.
Uh
and I think I mentioned there is one
other arguably technical thing that is
involved in in solving this. Uh it's not
like a core part of the poem, but it's
something that I think people would find
interesting.
Uh and only one person in the world has
solved it so far and they've been very
quiet about it. I don't think I've seen
it. Actually, no. I did see it one time
on one social media venue, which was
actually kind of funny because everyone
blew right past him and didn't give him
the time of day and no one noticed that
he had figured it out. So, Whoa, that
was pretty. Whoa, good answer. Nice.
Wow.
Okay, next. Are you last halfway through
the poem clues when you reach the check
point?
Let me read that. Okay, this one number
nine.
[Music]
Are you at least halfway through
the poem clues?
Yes, I think so. Oh, good answer. Good
answer.
Question. What's the question? Uh, the
question was, "Are you at least halfway
through the poem clues when you reach
the checkpoint?" The squares problem.
Did not read it. But she told me to read
the squares. Do you read the squares or
don't read the squares? No stars. No.
Oh, I thought I was supposed to read the
squares. The squares. Yeah.
Squares. Yes. Stars. No. Squares. Yes.
That's what we're doing there. Perfect.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Now we know the rules.
It's a good thing. So you don't get bear
sprrayed. Okay. Are there any clues or
hints in the songs in your treasure
hunt?
Are there any clues or hints in the
songs in your treasure hunt?
Yes. Whoa. Whoa.
Good answer.
Good.
Okay. Next. Is there a hint in the
statement you traveled over 9,000 miles
in two trips?
Do do you want to read the words? Yeah,
let me read. Number 14. Number 14. Is
there a hint in the statement you
traveled over 9,000 miles in two trips?
The purpose of the 9 mile or over 9,000
mile statement was
to convey that I traveled a great
distance
throughout the Rockies and the American
West as part of hiding treasure.
And
there's no it's really not meant to read
in anything more than that. It's
basically meant to say that I traveled a
great distance and somewhere along my
route I hid the treasure. I could have
been at the, you know, the beginning of
the route, in the middle, in the end,
somewhere along the path.
Okay, good one.
Okay, this is especially important for
someone like for me like of my stature.
For anyone who would struggle with
carrying 60 pounds in one trip, can you
give us any advice on how to retrieve
the treasure container and its contents
successfully?
So, in other words, if I if if I can't
carry the the um
the treasure and the container in one
trip. Yeah. What's your advice?
So if you figured out exactly where the
treasure is at, you will have sufficient
time to plan how you wish to retrieve
it.
Would would I be able to bring a llama?
[Laughter]
I have a friend in Dylan who has a llama
and she said or an alpaca. Well,
whatever. Some kind of a pack animal.
That's a big difference.
Is that Oh my god. Is that a clue then?
It depends on He just said it depends if
it's an alpaca, a llama, or a mule.
I I think actually any of those animals
would be will help you out.
Okay, next one. Why will you not tell us
what the treasure container is?
You know, I I've been hesitant to
mention what the container is. uh mainly
because of artificial intelligence
and also
to prevent people from creating
decoys or
uh for someone to claim that they have
found it and to recreate what the
container looks like in order to make a
farce and upset people. As we all know,
that happens from time to time.
Unfortunately, there's a bad apple in
every bunch. It's not to say that
there's any in this room. Um but uh uh
it's also AI because I think as time
progresses, artificial intelligence will
soon be in a position where
it will be a formidable force when it
comes to things like treasure hunts. And
so I think actually it's a bigger topic.
Um it's kind of a strange thing to think
about. You know, AI AI is on the
precipice of encapsulating the entirety
of human knowledge.
And it's not just a function of having
the knowledge, it's acting on that
knowledge in an intelligent manner.
And so very soon AI will be smarter than
all of us in this room combined.
And it's a bit of a paradox.
How do you create
a puzzle for an intellect that dwarfs
your own?
It's like a mouse trying to create a
puzzle for a human. It sounds pretty
silly. And that's really where we stand
with artificial intelligence. And so a
big portion of the time that I spent
designing this treasure hunt was to make
it accessible and understandable and
approachable by humans, but not by AI.
And that's a really hard thing to do
actually because
Soon you'll be in a position where I
think that those those two will start to
blend together in a way that is kind of
scary.
And if you take that one step further
and you were to have AI built into say a
robot, that gets very scary. You could
actually have a legion of robots that go
out and say find the treasure. Uh, I
know it sounds crazy, but I do genuinely
believe that we're not far off from
that. And that's really something that I
did not want to happen.
And time will tell whether or not that
actually works out to our advantage, but
uh uh we'll we'll see how it goes.
Very good.
This is this is a good one. Do you think
that once someone is successful in
reaching the checkpoint that they will
be the ultimate finder?
Do you think that once someone is
successful in reaching the checkpoint
that they will be the ultimate finder?
So, I know there are some probably some
folks in this room who have no idea what
this checkpoint business is. Uh, there's
a lot of kind of context that have built
up to this. I've had a number of
interviews over the past where I had
mentioned that a portion of this
treasure hunt involves for what I call,
for lack of a better term, a checkpoint.
And it's a way for you to know that
you're trending in the right direction.
um kind of consider it like something
that you may find along the way that you
realize unequivocally without a doubt, I
know that I'm correct.
I I did this on purpose um partially to
combat some of the AI concerns.
And so I think it is fair to say whoever
finds the checkpoint has an excellent
chance of finding the treasure as well.
Good. Good to know. Good one.
Okay.
Were there any clues or lines in your
poem that changed significantly from the
first draft to the final version?
H.
So, I mentioned this before, but for
those that are not aware, I wrote the
bulk of that poem in a number of hours.
It was like, I don't know, probably six
hours or less. Um,
and I think from the time that I origin,
so two things. First off, I purposely
didn't finish the entire poem until the
day the book went to print.
And hello. Oh, I did that on purpose
because I didn't want I wanted to make
sure no one had access to the poem
beforehand. It was really important to
me that no one had a big leg up over
anybody else. So, as you imagine,
there's editors involved. Uh there's uh
uh the printing company, uh
illustrators, all sorts of people. And
it is true that they had access to
subsets of the book ahead of time, but
no one had access to the poem until the
very end because I never finished it
until the last hour.
And
despite that last bit that I filled in
at the end, to my recollection, nothing
significantly changed from the very
first draft that I wrote. So it was I
think I only tweaked maybe two words
tops. So it was pretty pretty static.
Very good. Thank you. Okay.
Are you planning on rolling out a search
state?
Like mine
like
better get ready for the bear break. Um,
you know, I simp Oh boy.
I'm ready. No, just all you have to do
is I don't you don't have you don't have
to get this, Dave. You know,
there have been a lot of people asking
for extra hints and clues and I totally
get it. Um, what's a little bit
different right now compared to Forest
Trader Hunt is that we're what March,
April, May, like 3 months in. I think
Forest, you know, for the first what
couple of years at least, uh, didn't
really give much of anything as I
recall.
And so I think we're still really early.
Um,
I'm hesitant to narrow down the search
area significantly
uh to give everybody a chance because I
feel like there are some people that are
just starting out on this and I know
that especially during the summer months
people are planning their travel and I
guess it's kind of it's kind of crappy
either way now that I think about it. So
I spent a lot of time searching in Idaho
for forest time and treasure for
instance and then he went and cut the
state and it's like wow there were a lot
of people that were really upset it's
like I spent all this time searching in
Idaho and then he just cuts it like to
me it was great like thank you I mean I
enjoyed the the treasure hunting there
in the state but great I have less
search area now. Uh so I don't want
people to be upset but I think
eventually if it has not been found I
will start eliminating states. I really
this you know this treasure hunt is not
meant to last a millennia or anything
like that. Um I want it to continue to
progress and so I think if there isn't
any real kind of tangible progress over
the coming months I'll I'll certainly
consider that. But I'm sorry to
disappoint tonight. I'm not gonna
eliminate any state, but uh I'll
consider it in the future.
Yeah.
So, since he just said the words for a
spin, I'm at living. Did you make a
blaze of one at three?
Oh, I will answer that. Yes, actually, I
will answer that.
No,
it's not. Awesome.
The problem the problem. Okay, I'm going
to rant just a little bit. Sorry. Yeah,
go ahead. Um, that was I wouldn't say
the problem, but that was one of the
Yeah, it was a problem. You know, that
was one of the problems with the Forest
Ben treasure hunt, I felt, is that the
blaze or the marker at the end was
something that could not stand the test
of time. There were a lot of things that
could have caused the blaze to go away.
It could have been a forest fire. It
could have been a strong wind that have
blown blown the tree down. Um, you know,
an earthquake. A lot of different things
I think that could cause damage like
that. And it was important to me that
it's designed in a way where it can
stand the test of time. So, I don't have
any clues. I didn't put, you know,
anything out in the woods or the
wilderness that um
that would be subject to destruction by
natural forces. Now, I can't control
everything. Uh I suppose under a very
specific set of circumstances, damage
could occur. Uh but I would I would know
if it did. And that's not fair to
anybody to be out searching for
something that cannot be found. Um so if
something like that were to happen in,
you know, astronomically low chance, I
think it's only fair to everybody that I
would just tell you. God damn it. Sorry.
But I I don't anticipate anything like
that happening.
Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for answering
that.
Okay, this is sort of long and
complicated. Can you verify 100% the
treasure container and its contents are
not a proxy item? The treasure container
and gold treasure etc. is actually
located at the final resting spot.
Good question.
So, there have been a number of people
that have asked me, "Oh, maybe you put,
you know, something out in the
wilderness and it's like a key to a
safety deposit box, then you go there
and get the treasure." That's really not
what I was going for here. I wanted like
that shock and awe, right? You get
there, you find the treasure, and it's
real, physical in the wilderness. And as
I mentioned before, it's filled to the
gills with stuff with treasure. I I
could not put anything else in there. It
just wouldn't fit. Uh but it is out
there and it's not, you know, in some
bank somewhere or something like that.
It's it's out there hidden to be found.
Thank you. Thanks.
Okay. Now, now we're to the questions
that I haven't pre-re
hopefully I can read the writing. Okay.
Number one, what is the title of the
book that Uncle Hyram gave you?
I don't even know what that Yeah. So,
for those unaware, uh I think it's in
the the story the concistador conquest.
I talk about my uncle Hyram who's
sitting in the back right there.
Yay.
He gave me a a book on Spanish clues and
markers, and I was pretty enthralled
with it at the time. Of course, it led
to Sunburn, but I don't blame him. Uh, I
can visualize the book, but I don't
recall the title. And if someone can
track it down, I'd love it. It's it has
a thick black border and then inside it
has a a white inset area that has a
bunch of Spanish symbols inside of it.
And it has a pretty uh overt title,
something like treasure symbols of the
Southwest or something like that. Uh
sorry,
treasure inside.
Uh, I don't recall the name, but if
someone happens upon the book, I'd be
happy to announce it on, you know, my
website or something. It's not a big
secret or anything like that.
Spanish.
Early Spanish.
Spanish Signs of Civils. That sounds
right. Uh, if I actually saw the cover,
I'd be sure, but that sounds right.
Yeah. It wasn't a very thick book. It's
probably about pretty thin. Yeah. Yeah.
Yep. Yep. That's right. It has some hand
drawings in it. Yeah, you got it. That's
the one.
What she said.
Okay, this is awesome because this is
actually the question I put in at the
bookstore. So, I I can give a little bit
of background. So the question is, are
you willing to talk about any of your
crazy adventures that are not in Beyond
the Maps Edge, like stepping on a sea
urchin in Mexico? And the reason I'm
asking that is I've had people actually
ask me saying, you know, Justin well, do
you think he has elaborated and made up
some of the stories? And I said, hell
no. This if something bad could happen,
it has happened to him.
Okay. So, I love the sea urch. The sea
urchin. But but maybe some of the other
ones on the list, whatever. Yeah. Uh so
what when I first started thinking about
this book, it was basically just a bunch
of chicken scratch. It was terrible. Um
and I had way more chapters than anybody
would ever care to read. And I didn't
want it to be like a math textbook, you
know, and be so daunting. And so I
started just having to cut story. So
there are a number of stories that I did
not include. Um the one that she
mentioned actually I never wrote about
but the the reader's digest version
would be uh I was in Puerto Varta. I was
probably 13 years old and I was battling
the waves out there with my brother and
I stepped on something. I didn't have my
glasses on and so it was all fuzzy. Uh,
and I pulled this thing out of my foot
and I got really dizzy and it was super
painful and I passed out. Uh, and I woke
up in a Mexican hospital and I spent
three days there. It was pretty
terrible. I don't recommend it. Um, I
think it was some kind of sea urchin.
Uh, but I don't really know the details
on it. So, but yeah, I mean I have other
stories. I mean, I can probably just
post them on my website or something.
Um, I'll figure out what to do with
them. They're They're not terribly
interesting. So, yes, they are. Yes,
they are. Yeah, they are.
Okay. This is a multi-question about one
subject. What was your first computer?
What computer did you la last buy as a
kid? Were you a PC or a Mac guy? Are you
an Android user or iOS? Wow. Do you want
to see all of these? That's
uh that's a lot of questions. Uh uh wow.
Uh first computer that was
it was an Apple 2e.
Yes, I'm old. Uh uh what computer did
you last buy? Uh I think it was a
MacBook Pro. Uh mostly for for work more
than anything. Not very exciting. Uh as
a kid, were you a PC or Mac guy? Uh
despite my first computer being an Apple
2e, I was more of a PC guy uh for a
number of years. I think probably until
I left Microsoft in 2012,
I think it was. And uh yeah, I actually
don't don't throw things at me, but
these days I I normally use an iOS
device, not Android.
Very good.
How far back has your family genealogy
been traced?
You know, somebody actually emailed me
with a a family tree, I think, on
ancestry.com that they had put together.
It was actually really interesting. Uh
I've been meaning to merge that in with
the one that I have. I think on my
father's side, I I'm able to trace it
back quite a bit more than my mother's
side. uh mostly French and German and
English. So, uh certainly, you know,
prem Mayflower days. Um I don't recall
the exact dates, though.
Are you going to do all these? Yeah. See
what we can do. Okay. Good. Okay. I like
this one. What is your best advice to
approaching a song, poem, book? I don't
know that word. What's the strategy in
the best process?
Wait, good question.
Poem, book show. Oh, show best process
or strategy. H.
So, I think most people that have heard
about this uh had no idea about this
forest thing. Um, so I think like the
show is just a good primer for that to
kind of understand a little bit of the
backstory. There are definitely hints
in the series that I I uh snuck in. Um,
but you know, the the the bulk of the
important stuff I would say is in is in
the book and the poem. So I guess the
the process I would suggest is you watch
the series, try not to fall asleep.
uh you even more challenging try and
read that book um and then read the poem
a few times and then go back through it
again uh the show really slowly and and
think about each scene.
Uh, and actually this is kind of funny.
To my uncertain knowledge, there are two
hints in the Netflix series that I I I
laugh every time they come up because
there's to me like they're just super
super obvious. Uh, and no one has
noticed and I'm just kind of blown away
at this point and I I feel like it's a
joke or something that nobody's telling
me. But there are are two scenes in
particular where I just I don't
understand what's happening because it's
super obvious. Like I almost just want
to say it like no say it. No say it.
[Applause]
Okay. Wait wait wait wait a second. Okay
then I Okay. The the next question and
I'm not I this is serious. The next
question.
What would you be willing to share this
evening that is a clue that would shake
the frontier center and cozy treasure
hunting community?
Oh man.
Oh.
Oh boy.
[Applause]
I'm I'm having an internal debate. Just
give me one.
What episode?
the short.
[Applause]
Okay, how do I phrase this?
It's funny. I don't recall which
episode. It's either two or three. Um,
it is a scene
that does not have me in it.
Um,
but it was a scene that I had some
control over.
I think if you rewatch it, it'll be
pretty obvious. I hope. Oh, wow. Whoa.
That's a good one.
Thank you.
I was worried I was going to have to get
the bear spread, but I
did.
Yeah.
This is from Sterling. What is your
favorite color and food?
The color and food. Not shrimp. Not
shrimp.
I
Well, I pretty much always wear blue, so
blue is my favorite color. Kind of a
navy blue. Uh, food.
That's good.
I see the answer. Uh,
that's awesome. It's gonna sound
strange. Uh, I actually really like
okra.
I know, right? It was slimy. Uh, fried
okra is pretty awesome.
Cool. Thanks. Okay.
What app or system do you recommend to
see established property lines to make
sure we stay on public land?
So, for those that don't know, uh, the
treasure is publicly accessible. You
don't have to go gallally van on
somebody's private property. Please,
please, please don't do that. Uh, I'm
sure especially people that live in this
area would very much appreciate it and
everybody else throughout the entire
search range. Let's just uh keep it safe
and fair um and legal. Um, so there are
a few apps out there. Um, you know, I I
think they're available both on Android
and iOS. One of them is I think the most
approachable one is called OnX. That's
Ox. They have like a backpacking
version, I think, and they have a
hunting one. Any of those will do. And
what you can do is if there's a search
area you're interested in, you can kind
of zoom in on that area and it'll show
you all the surrounding property rights.
So, you don't have to guess. And if it's
not publicly accessible land, just cross
it off right away. And then uh if you're
a more advanced user, uh what I had used
for many years is an app called Gaia.
That's G A I A. It's a little more
advanced because there's a ton of
different layers that you can add to it.
And it's uh uh yeah, not for the faint
of heart, but OnX does great. Oh, I see
a hand raised. you specify if it's on
federal or state? Will I specify if it's
on federal or state land? Uh, no. Uh,
but it's it's it's publicly accessible
as of today.
A lot of people are saying that we can
use the waterways
through private land to get to it. Oh,
we have a loophole virtuoso in the Yeah.
So, I hope I don't screw up the law
here. uh don't take legal advice from
me, but it is my understanding that in
many places in Montana, if you are on a
waterway that is considered navigable,
in other words, uh one where you can
float a a watercraft,
you can actually float through private
property because the owner uh well,
rather the person is allowed to access
the area up to the high water mark as I
recall. Don't quote me on that. You
might want to look it up. Uh, but it is
fair to say if it's publicly accessible,
it's fair game.
Nice. Okay.
Did you design and make the cover art?
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. So,
the cover art and book um
I actually did design that first and I
gave it to
a cover designer who iterated on it and
kind of cleaned it up to make it
presentable and I think he did a
fantastic job. So, yeah, it's fair to
say that the original image was created
by me and then we continue to evolve it.
I see a hand up. Yes. The double arcs
something that exists or something that
had to be created? Is the double arcs?
Wow. Uh something that exists or had to
be created?
That's a tricky question
actually. Bear spray. I want to answer
this. Um it's actually a really strange
question knowing what I know.
Um
ask the question one more time. Is the
double arcs something that exists or had
to be created?
Did you make the arcs or are they out?
Is the double arts something that exists
or or created?
Let me think about this.
I don't want to I don't want to give
away too much on this. So, I'm going to
have to pause. I fault it.
Nah, that that's okay. No, no, that's
okay. No bear spray. That's okay.
Now that the Netflix show came out, how
many clues are in the show? Wow. How
many clues are in the show? I don't
think I've actually, funny enough, I
don't think I've ever count um and some
of them
are kind of compound. you have to look
at a number of of scenes in order to
understand something singular.
So with that in mind, the number of of
singular clues, let me just uh count
them up in my mind. One second.
[Laughter]
Um, see
there are at least
five singular clues at least. I think
probably more if if I really thought
about it, but at least five. At least
five. Okay, that's good. Thank you.
That's that's that's a good answer.
Next. This cipher is tough. Can you give
us a hint?
Uh, the cipher is actually really meant
to be approachable. It's not You don't
need an advanced math degree or
anything. Actually, you don't need a
math degree at all to to uh solve this
thing. I mean, if you can add two
numbers together, if you can do basic
say multiplication, whatever it you're
fine. So, um,
which two numbers?
Which two numbers
you pick. Um, I want to make sure I get
this right. What was the question? Oh,
the cipher. Um,
the cipher.
The cipher is not in
the poem. It is elsewhere. I'll say
that. Okay. Well, that's that's that's a
good one. That's part of that's a good
answer. Oh, and I I should also clarify
the cipher is was just I couldn't help
myself. Uh it's not a critical hint. You
don't need to solve the cipher to find
the treasure. Uh more than anything.
All right. Uh more than anything, the
the the cipher is more of a nod or a
hint to what the container is. Oh, wow.
That's good.
That's good.
Okay. The question is, is it walking
distance from water silent flight to
round and then past the hole?
That's a little complicated. Yeah, just
reread this. Um, is it walking distance
from water's silent flight to round the
bend past the hole? Boy,
I'm not sure if I want to answer this.
Let me think about this a moment.
The difference for a 71year-old person
and a 10year-old
That would be me. The 71.
Um,
yes. Whoa. I think that's fair. Whoa.
Yep. That's awesome. Good one.
That that that helps. That's good. On a
scale of one to four spent, how would
you rate the difficulty of your hunt?
You know that difficulty is such a
subjective thing. I I think for
something that is very approachable to
one person can be next to impossible for
another. And that and that's actually uh
where a lot of my time or my thinking
process was spent. I designed this in a
way where it can be solved in different
ways but you'll all get there at the end
of the day. So, it's not um
uh how do I phrase this? Um there are
there are multiple ways to solve this
treasure hunt and some are arguably more
challenging than others. I think there's
probably what I call an optimal solution
and then there's there are a few ways
that I actually basically put in
safeguards in case someone might not
quite understand.
one clue, they could still limp along
and figure it out if that makes sense.
Um, so the question I want to make sure
I get this right. Uh, so on a scale of
one to forest fen, how would you rate
the difficulty? So I don't know how you
all felt when you saw forest fen
solution or the reported solution. Uh,
how did you feel about that? Did you
think it was really hard or too easy?
Uh, and I think that's different for
different people. Um, some people might
have said that's the most ridiculous
solution I've ever heard of. Uh, may may
or may not have been hard, but they just
didn't like it. And that's the issue is
I know when the solution is revealed,
there will be people in this room that
will say that's the dumbest thing I ever
heard of. I know it. Uh, and there will
be other people that will I I think be
maybe delighted by it. I hope. Uh, so
there's no pleasing everybody. I I did
the best that I could. I think given the
time and resources that I had, which is
actually another thing I should mention.
Um I actually thought that I had more
time. So I really thought that the
series was going to come out later in
the year. And when I got the call
saying, "Hey, it's coming out like a
month or a month and a half," it was
kind of like, "I got to get moving." I
mean, of course, I had already hidden
the treasure. Uh but I actually wanted
more time to kind of hammer on the book.
Uh, I called my editor and said, "Hey,
guess what? I've got a bunch of chicken
scratch. You got one week to edit this.
Good luck." Uh, so it was just a total
scramble. Uh, I don't know if anybody's
familiar with the publishing process,
but it's pretty intense. So, uh, I don't
think that answers the question really,
but on a scale of 1 to four, a spend
somewhere in the middle. How's that?
That works. That's good.
How big was the biggest fish you have
caught?
Well, I think my dad has already added
10 pounds to it. So, uh I'll only add
one more pound. No, I it was in New
Mexico at Herren Lake and actually it
was kind of cool day cuz I It's the
fishing that I hated which is trolling
and you got a lot of line out. It's a
lead line and it's colorcoded to show
how deep in the water you are. got a ton
of line out and you know the rod just
just almost cracks in half and well
we're hung up on a stump you know and so
uh I just remember reeling on this thing
trying to reel in the stump and at some
point I realized oh my gosh it's moving
it's a it's a it's a fish and it
actually at the time ended up being the
second largest uh trout in the state of
New Mexico and it was actually in the
local newspapers and stuff it was pretty
exciting at the time because I was
really young uh and uh I guess for legal
reasons or as my dad put it for legal
reasons, uh it was listed in the paper
that he caught it, which was kind of
funny.
Uh and of course, uh you know, he wanted
to have this fish mounted. Um and it was
uh the the taxiderermis kept the fish
over the winter and we got it in the
spring and when it came to the house, my
dad looked at it and he says, "You know,
that that fish must have shrunk and been
in the freezer all winter. It was
definitely way bigger than us." you
know. So, I still have the fish.
Actually, it's it's at my house, but uh
yeah, that was the biggest. I don't
recall how big it is, but I'm sure
somebody could track down the newspaper
article and see.
Okay,
Justin, did you really break your leg?
Yeah. So, for those that have not read
the book, I mentioned that I had broke
my tibia and I had to hide a treasure
after doing that. Yes, I did break it.
Uh, it was not a fun situation. I was on
demand at the time. I really actually
didn't want to go around kind of like a
peg leg guy hiding a treasure. But I was
out of time. That was basically I spent
as much time as I could recovering. And
then uh for a number of reasons, I had
to just go and do this. And so I had to
do it with a busted leg. It was not
super fun. Yeah. Good.
How do you tie your fly hook to your
line?
Well, everybody loves a good clinch
knot. I think there's probably some
argument as to whether or not the
enhanced clinch knot is a better knot
than the original, but I generally
prefer the classic clinch knot.
The treasure is on public land. the sale
of BLM land have an effect on the hidden
treasure. So I guess he he's saying
would the sale of BLM land have an
effect on the hidden treasure.
So avoiding the
political implications of this as much
as I can. Um, I think it is fair to say
that there is a lot of public land right
now that is at risk and it is uh at risk
of being sold to private individuals and
to companies.
And this is a big reason why I hid the
treasure is I wanted people to be aware
and I wanted uh excuse me I wanted I
wanted people to appreciate the lands
that we have. And so I felt if I could
get people outdoors and to experience it
that they would be better stewards and
that they would uh be champions of the
lands that mean so much to do. Very
good.
So the question is uh will this have an
effect on the treasure and I think the
honest answer is I don't know. Uh things
can change and so I'll I'll definitely
keep people updated. If there's a
situation where, you know, the treasure
is basically inaccessible at some point,
I will do my very best uh to let you
know if I'm still around, uh which I
certainly hope. I don't want the
treasure hunt to last that long. So uh
um at this point and this is actually
why I mention I think in the legal
language you on the website in the book.
I know it's a lot of boring stuff. Um,
but this is why I mentioned as of this
date it is publicly accessible. Uh,
because I don't know what tomorrow
brings and I really hope that our public
lands remain public and uh, I hope
everybody in this room appreciates it as
much as I do.
Thank you.
That was nice.
Justin, does the book mention the
checkpoint? Does the poem mention the
checkpoint?
So, the poem is in the book and so I
think it's fair to say.
I'm not trying to mince words.
Um,
the the poem does in effect mention a
checkpoint because that is a stage of of
your journey. So, it is fair to say that
uh the checkpoint is part of the poem.
Yeah. Thank you. Awesome. Very good.
You guys don't feel like you have to
stick around if you're falling asleep.
You can just leave.
It really does.
Could
you talk about your five-year job
experience during college and after?
What was your major in college? Yeah.
So, first off, I I never graduated. Um,
I studied computer science. I left
college when I was a junior
uh for an internship that turned into a
full-time position down in Tucson,
Arizona. And then from there, um, yeah,
I think I mentioned this in the book was
my tour to fails. I had a lot of
disastrous interviews. I was really
terrible. I'm I'm uh public speaking is
a struggle for me, so I apologize. Um,
so yeah, I ended up at at Microsoft and
I worked there for a number of years uh
on a lot of different things and I
worked at the Walt Disney Company for
the better part of a decade. I think I
worked in pretty much every division
they had. Anywhere from consumer
products to their international division
to, you know, uh Disney streaming
service, uh uh Imagineering, uh a little
bit of everything. It was a ton of fun.
Uh I've worked at uh Visa in
collaboration with Apple and the Apple
Apple Pay system you can use on your
phone. Uh golly, what else? um
a lot of startups over the years too. Uh
it was kind of a blur. There's a lot of
companies um but always new challenges.
Uh so yeah, I did I studied computer
science but I I uh left my junior year.
Okay.
Okay. This is a series of of two things
or people and I guess you're to pick
which you prefer. Bob Dylan or Jodie
Mitchell.
Do you know who they are?
Uh you laugh but I'm afraid to answer
that question. Honestly,
I'll say Bob Dylan because I'm much more
aware who that is. Okay. Okay.
Beatles or Rolling Stones? Oh man.
Oh boy. I feel like I'm gonna get
lynched either way here. Uh oh, you
can't go wrong. I'll see the Beatles.
Okay.
[Applause]
Is that Unix or Linux? Yeah, Unix or
Linux. Ah, Unix or Linux. I mean, I I
think these days there are some really
good flavors or distributions of Linux.
So I think for most people, Linux is
probably much more approachable than a
more raw Unix system. Okay.
Bill Gates or Steve Jobs?
This is going to get you in trouble.
Oh my goodness. You know, for better or
for worse, uh Steve Jobs was a
visionary.
uh I think he had a profound
understanding of not only
technology but timing and timing in the
market is just as important if not more
important than the technology itself.
There are many cases in history where
somebody's designed something incredible
but it was too early and people weren't
ready to accept it. And so uh Steve Jobs
understood the whole marketing strategy.
Uh, and I feel like, oh boy, this is
probably gonna get me in trouble. I feel
like Apple has lost a little bit about
uh a little of that since since Steve
has left. And uh it's been a kind of a
slow but steady decline. Uh Bill Gates
on the other hand uh I mean the guy was
a brilliant businessman. Uh I have a lot
of respect for him. I actually funny
story uh I used to work at building 50
at Microsoft and I was always in a
hurry. I don't really know why, but I
was always running around trying to
solve the next thing. And I ran I ran
around the hallway and I knocked him
over. Uh, super embarrassing. Um,
I think as I recall, he mentioned it in
like a conference the next day about
some engineer running him over. I was
sure I was going to get fired.
Uh, but I had a tremendous amount of
respect for him, too. So, it's not that
I'm choosing one or the other. I just
think we had different strengths.
So, I have a question that's actually
not on the card, but now we're talking
about Microsoft and and we know that
Justin has gotten patents while he
worked at Microsoft.
Would you be willing to talk about any
of your patents? Oh, at at Microsoft
then we saw them. So, we saw them on the
shelf in the Netflix series. So, Oh,
yeah. This is probably pretty boring
stuff. Sorry. Uh no I mean you can make
it uh it's technology stuff. Uh so
there's so uh for instance um ah like on
your iPhone if you were to you have an
app there and you tap on it and
generally it acts asks for credentials
you know username and password to log
in. Uh uh that was one of my patents
from many years ago. um the concept of
of bringing a website closer to uh your
device and having a more enhanced
experience uh and it was very
contextual. So for instance uh let's say
Bank of America uh you have a BFA app
now instead of going to bank of
america.com on your phone. Some people
still do but the app is generally
better. Uh but the underpinnings for how
all of that fits together are uh some of
the patents. Nice.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer here.
Star Trek or Star Wars?
It's got to be very divisive questions.
Uh,
you know, I'm I guess I'm not a very
good nerd. This is funny.
So,
I had never seen either for the longest
time. And I recall when I was in
elementary school, uh, kids would
roleplay uh, from Star Wars and I had no
idea who any of the characters were. And
so I was always, uh, R2 Buchu,
so I just kind of walk around, you know,
was a safe role for me at the time. Uh,
but years later when I actually watched
them, I think in middle school or junior
high as as it were at the time, uh, I
think I prefer Star Wars.
the original ones. Be clear. Oh god.
Okay, I'm not living again. In case you
haven't already figured it out, Justin
is a genius. And Justin, would you be
willing to talk about the how you
created the Star Wars in Disney World?
Oh,
you know, the time that I spent in
Imaginering was really cool and there
were a a lot of projects that were
worked on at that time. Um, in fact, I
think probably still to this day there's
some NDAs in place. So I kind of have to
be careful about what I what I
mentioned. But um uh one of the things
that I created was uh what they called
media vault which was all of
Imagineering had a lot of ideas flowing
in and there are a lot of different ways
for these ideas to be captured and they
needed a a very secure system because if
if these ideas like Star Wars Land for
instance were to leak out then it would
be a big deal. It'd be a big problem for
the company. And so uh there's a lot of
kind of security that went around
creating that that system. Uh but you
know work in the in the parks itself and
uh you know across the across the the
the two major parks in the in the US was
was really interesting but I can't
really expand too much on a lot of that.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks.
From where do you need your car to
search? Is it a mile or less to the
treasure
container?
Uh, this is a really strange question to
me. Um, from where you leave your car to
search, is it a mile or less to the
treasure chest? Um, he said chest. He
said chest. I should be clear. It looks
like it's a chest. It's not a chest. It
is a container though. Um
I don't think this question works
because
um by the time you're going
to get the treasure, you're not
searching, you're retrieving.
Wow. Whoa. That's a good one. That is
good.
Awesome.
You want him to say You want him to say
it again? Okay.
Uh,
by the time you're going to get the
treasure, um, you're not searching,
you're retrieving. Wow. Holy cow.
That's good. What is your most
proficient programming language?
Uh so for those that don't know I was I
still am a programmer software engineer
or whatever you like to call it uh for
many years. Um I guess probably most
proficient language these days would be
uh C++ or or Java.
I think he already answered this. Has
anyone reached the checkpoint? You
already you answered that right? This
one's really super long. We'll save this
till the end.
Is there is there a range of the
elevation where the treasure is and and
found forest f basically what you said
is what between 5,000 and um whatever
10,200 ft.
Yeah. The American West has a very
diverse range of elevations. uh just in
case.
Pretty basic. Yeah, it's pretty basic.
Uh I mean I can I can put an upper bound
on it. Uh certainly below
11,000 ft.
That's good.
How far from the first clue to the last
one in miles?
I think that's what it said. How far is
it from the first clue to the last one
in miles?
Um,
this actually
is not possible to answer.
Uh, and I'm not being koi. Um,
based on how the clues are structured, I
think it's the wrong question to ask.
Oh, it's the right question.
Is it hard for you to answer these
questions about the clues because you
have to iterate through your time? Is it
hard to answer what now? Is it hard to
answer these questions about the post
because you are supposed to iterate
through the poem more than Is it hard to
answer these questions because you have
to iterate through the poem more than
one time? Um,
no. That's not why it's hard to answer.
I think I think you answered that one
before. Okay. Are the clues in your poem
in consecutive order from top to bottom
from the first clue to the treasure?
Yeah, I think for those that are aware,
I think I answered this at some point.
It's it's fair to say they're in
consecutive order. This one is specific
starting at the top of the poem to the
bottom instead go bottom to top. Yeah,
it's fine. Yep, it's consecutive. Yeah.
Okay. Top to bottom. Ah, here's a forest
question.
Is there a 200 or 500 foot searcher?
So, for those that are unaware, uh,
Forest Fen had announced at some point
that someone was within a certain number
of feet of the treasure, and I think he
said, uh, either 200 or 500 ft,
depending on what stage is a treasure
hunt. Uh, it's probably a little little
early in the treasure hunt for me to
say, uh, how close people have been. Uh
but there have been people
I'll say that there have been less than
uh trying to recall some emails I got.
There have been people that have been
less than
two miles and certainly
even less than that. Yeah. Wow.
Okay.
Was it me?
[Applause]
[Laughter]
[Applause]
[Laughter]
No comment.
[Laughter]
Th This is a good one. Did you consider
railroad tracks a structure? Is the
entire hunt based on naturally occurring
structures and landscapes?
It's a hard-hitting question.
Uh, do I consider railroad tracks a
structure?
I consider them to be a man-made
structure. Yes, they were made by man.
Uh, they're not a building. They are a
structure. Is the entire hunt based on
naturally occurring structures and
landscapes?
So I think I mentioned earlier that
there are a couple of different ways to
work through the poem. Uh and I tried to
do that to be uh to accommodate how
different people think. And so depending
on how you interpret it, I think it it
could be true to say that yes, the
entire hunt could be based on naturally
occurring structures and landscapes. Uh
but I think some people could quipple.
Um, so I should clarify that by saying
there's one clue in here where arguably
someone could say there is a man-made
implication to it.
H
Oh man, that's long.
Okay, this is good.
Is the for is the part of the river
where your mom's fishing photo is
accessible to public other than walking
up or downream?
That's a post. Yeah. So, there's a
picture in the book of my mother on the
beaverhead, right? Uh she is waiting
and that picture predates me. Um,
so I can't say with certainty, but my
guess just kind of knowing the landscape
is that it is likely not publicly
accessible on either side. You would
have to wait to
Okay, very good.
This is a multi-art one. Can you give a
floor the treasure is not below?
A floor? I don't understand. Also, I
think this is an elevation related
question. Can you give a floor the
treasure is not below? Uh, I think I'm
not going to answer any other elevation
related questions, but uh it's go ahead.
Uh, still contend that no red herrings
intentional or otherwise. So,
I did not put any intentional red
herrings in the book or the poem or
anything like that. uh you know it's
fair to say that like the poem itself is
is obfuscation right it's a way to hide
information otherwise somebody would
have already found the trigger uh but in
terms of red herrings uh there's nothing
intentional now there might be some
unintentional ones for instance I'm you
know I talk about I don't know a you
know say a green table and somebody
thinks oh it has to do with the color
green I didn't actually mean for that I
just mentioned the table green uh so I
cannot control uh how other people
interpret it, but to the best of my
abilities, no. Like I didn't put in any
intentional red herrings into the book
or the poll or anything like that. And
then the last one was, will you announce
if the checkpoint is reached?
Um
h
if I'm aware,
yes, I would announce that. Yeah.
Good.
[Applause]
Do you like pickles?
I don't get it.
Do I like pickles?
Yeah. Uh, yes. I like dill pickles
especially.
I have a funny story about pickles, but
we'll save that for another time. Oh,
okay. Okay.
Why not wait for your leg to heal?
Yeah, that's a good one. Um, I think I
talked a little bit about that earlier.
There was a number of circumstances
where I had to just get things done and
uh it was really a function of time. I
just couldn't couldn't wait any longer.
So there was a whole series of events
that were set in motion and basically a
schedule to keep so to speak and so I
had to act and it wasn't optimal but uh
just had to make it happen.
I think you did this one. The cipher has
this old brain stunk. any hints?
So you Oh, yeah. I think I I mentioned
earlier uh the cipher is not in the
poem. Um so I hope that helps. We'll see
how things go. We'll get a little more
time and u maybe somebody will figure it
out. Yeah. Okay.
How do you feel any chang?
Yeah. Yeah. I know I mentioned that
earlier. Um, that was actually the
biggest risk that I saw to this trader
hunt was somebody whipping out chat GPT
or whatever the latest language model
artificial intelligence offering was on
the market and just say punch it in and
here's the answer. Uh, there are some,
you know, you'll notice I think in the
beginning of the book I do not give I
think permission for people to use uh
run the book through AI but I realized I
just cannot prevent that. And so I did
everything in my power to ensure that AI
will not be the winner. Uh but it's
really hard to control. Like I
mentioned, AI is getting very very smart
and it will soon be smarter than all of
us if it isn't already. So uh I did the
best that I could and I feel like as it
stands right now, uh we're fending it
off. So we'll we'll see how the future
holds.
This this is sort of long. There was a
small D like the letter D is in dog
hidden just above the M in maps on the
spine of the book. Why was it removed in
the new print? Is it relevant or
included to something in this hunt?
Yeah. So, we're talking about some of
the formatting differences that showed
up between the first and and second
editions of the book. So, for those that
are unaware, if you look at your book,
you'll see on the cover, uh, it either
has like a little sticker on it, sort of
looks like a sticker, uh, and some
don't. So, the first printing is the
ones that do not have the sticker. Both
books are fine. Uh, consider the one
without the sticker to be kind of a
collector's edition or something. Um uh
but between those two prints, I actually
ended up having to make some very small
formatting changes because the cover
designer noticed that the the spacing
wasn't exactly right and it was bugging
him more than it was bugging me. And so
he made some slight changes. So there's
no intentional clues there. Uh any
differences in the cover between the
first and second edition? Is there any
cover art at all? Is there any clue in
the cover art at all? Uh I have not
specified.
So that means yes.
I know. I know we have more questions,
but um I just actually wanted to follow
up on this hidden mark that I put in
this book that probably one of you have.
Um Oh yeah, that's so before we get into
that, uh I want to mention what I'm
shipping to whoever wins. So, for
anybody who's seen the Netflix series,
uh, the treasure I stored in a
Saddleback leather briefcase.
Um, and I still have that original
briefcase that held the treasure, and
I'd like to give it to whoever wins.
Whoa. So, I'm happy to ship that out.
Nice.
So, if you will, uh, if you have a book
that you've purchased over the last few
days that has my signature on it, uh,
turn to page
150. 150. And about halfway down the
page, Oh, I heard a mango. Oh, I thought
we had one.
See, this is why I don't say what the
container is.
Does she have it? uh page 150 about
halfway down in black ink that sort of
bled. I apologize. I have written uh an
email address and it's a a customized
email address that goes straight to me.
So, if you're shy and you don't want to
say one right here, uh that's fine. You
can just email me. Otherwise, if anybody
has it here in this room, feel free to
stand up. That's cool. Wow. I actually
thought somebody would be here or the
person would be here. Okay. Well, uh,
please spread the word. It's on page
150. Um, unfortunately, the email
address kind of got a little smudged
with the ink, so it's at iicloud.com,
not lcloud,
uh, in case you're confused. Uh, so just
send me an email at that address, and
I'm happy to ship out the, uh, the
Saddleback uh, container to you.
Nice.
[Applause]
I would really like to have that. Is
there any way I can make faster where it
would look real? Actually, there's
probably two other things that I'll
include just for fun. Uh, so people had
noticed that there were two coffee mugs
in one of the at least one of the scenes
all should be the coffee mugs as well.
Oh, that's awesome. Good one. Good.
Is the hiding spot meaningful for its
beauty, its symbolism, or for
sentimental reasons?
Is the hiding spot
meaningful for its beauty, symbolism, or
sentimental reasons? H
I would say all of the above. Oh, good.
Good one.
Good. I'm keeping that.
Why are the ebook pictures in black and
white and why are they still in RGB
instead grayscale?
Why is the coins picture in the ebook in
color?
I don't even know. Yeah. So, I think the
question is why the heck is this ebook
in black and white? Why didn't you just
do it in color like the book? The answer
is because of compatibility. So, there
are a lot of uh e-readers out there that
either do not support color uh or they
have uh severe constraints on the side
of the file. And so, I tried to make it
as as as small as possible. That's
basically it. And then, additionally, I
wanted at least one color picture in
there. So, that's why I chose the uh I
think it's the coins in the ebook that
are all color. So, if your device
supports color, you'll see you'll see
that one in color.
Man, these are a lot of questions. Yeah,
you guys are going to fall asleep here.
Maybe just a few more. Maybe maybe we'll
just do a few more here. Yeah.
Oh, this is this is a good one. And it's
short.
If you were doing this treasure hunt,
how would you train Tucker to help you?
It's long. Ah.
As I mentioned, there are a few
different ways to approach this poem. I
mean, there is like a super brute force
way, but it would be very very
difficult. So, I mean, I suppose if you
had a dog that could sniff gold and
uh uh you were in a very specific area,
then that would be beneficial to you,
but that would be really, I think, uh
challenging to do overall. So more than
anything, I think it's just uh uh good
outdoor manners, making sure that the
dog is a good steward, uh doesn't
chasing after elk or horse, bears, you
know, and keeping your dog in control.
That's basically it. Oh, I see a hand
up.
If you specify at all what measures you
took to ensure that a random hiker,
fisherman did not just happen across.
Yeah. What measures did I take to ensure
that a random hiker or fisherman would
not happen upon it? Um, I touched on
this, I think, uh, a little bit in the
prior interview. I did not put it in
very close proximity to any man-made
trail. I I didn't want someone, you
know, trying to relieve themselves on
the side of the trail and, you know, pee
on it or something. So,
uh, so it is a little little ways off.
Um, and then, um, yeah, I think that's
the only thing I want to say about that.
Yeah.
Okay, maybe a couple of short ones here.
Can you drive a semi to the location?
Can I drive a like a semi-truck? I think
so. Oh my goodness.
Can I draw Can you drive a semi to the
location? I assume he means a truck.
Yeah. Truck.
I I guess that means to the location of
the treasure itself. Uh, no. You You do
have to I'm sorry to say you have to
hike a little. Um, but not too far.
Okay.
To the parking space to get out to park.
Sorry. What about to parking spot where
you need to get out to get? Can you
drive the semi to the parking space?
Well, that's a loaded question. That
implies that there's a parking space.
So, uh,
I that's all I'll say about that. Yeah.
Will you continue giving clues right
from 39?
Will I continue to give clues? Uh, yeah,
at some point. I I feel like it's still
pretty early. Actually, I don't know if
it's early or not. Like sometimes I'm
wondering like, wow, how how has this
not been found yet? Um, but yeah, I
think if it kind of drags on, I will I
will help out.
you're being.
Yeah, I think the the last question
here. Oh, and this this is what we all
have been dying to know. How much did it
hurt when you fell off your bike and you
still had your teeth?
Uh, it was not fun. Um, and no, my
actually most of my front teeth are not
real. Um, they were all busted out
during the the bike accident. So, it it
hurt a lot. How's that? Yeah. Oh, we got
a hand up. Is it buried? Is the treasure
buried? I haven't specified if it is or
not, but as I mentioned before, um if
you know where to look, it wouldn't
matter.
In the back,
is the bride live?
Well, that's kind of a uh
the bride. I will go so far as to say
the bribe is not it's not a person
that's alive right now
is oh is what I'm referring to alive.
Um yeah I don't think I want to answer
that one. Sorry.
Uh yes
are the clues in one treasure all in one
state? I um I haven't specified. I I
might I might consider
um being clearer on that in the future.
Yes. Physical objects or clues that you
can find along the way or is it all
metal? Are there physical objects that
you can find along the way? Yeah, I
think it's fair to say there are. Yeah.
Yes. Will you read the poem? Will I read
the poem for you? Uh sure.
Somebody have a Oh, great.
Thank you.
Okay. Uh before I read this, I
appreciate everybody coming out. Thank
you guys for your your time and uh I
hope you're having fun with it and we'll
see how things go. If like I said, if
this thing hasn't been found here in,
you know, a couple of months or
something, I'll uh I'll try and throw
some more bones out there if necessary.
Uh
excuse me. Beyond the map's edge, can
you find what lives in time, flowing
through each measured rhyme? Wisdom
waits in shadowed sight for those who
read these words just right. As hope
surges clear and bright, walk near
waters, silent flight. Round the bend,
past the hole, I wait for you to cast
your pole. In Ursa East, his realm
awaits. His bride stands guard at
ancient gates. Her foot of three at 20°
return her face to find the place.
Double arts on granite bold where
secrets of the past still hold beyond
the reach of time's swift race. Wonder
guards this sacred space. Truth rests
not in clever minds, not entangled
twisted fines. Like a river's steady
flow, what you seek you already know.
Welcome.
Anyway, thank you. Thank you guys again
for attending. Appreciate it. Uh sorry
for the long lines and have a good
night.
Thank you. Thank you. That was awesome.
You did great. Thank you. Thank you,
Bri.
Thank you. I'm pregnant.
Okay, thank you everybody for coming
out. We want to thank Cindia for her
amazing
[Music]
light treasure inside.
Why not treasure hunt with us? We the
truth. Yeah, we don't give up.
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]

[Applause]
Hey, come join me. How are you doing?
I'm doing really, really well. You doing
good? Yeah. Are you going to get through
this? Okay. Absolutely. Let's do it.
Do you realize no one gave me questions?
They're all right here. Oh, good. Hang
on. Let me shuffle them. Okay. Can I use
the one that Christy came up with? We
came up with about 35 this afternoon.
I've already circled the ones that I
want answered. Oh, okay. They're the
ones with the black boxes around them.
So, do the ones with the black boxes?
Yep. And then, uh, any out of these.
Okay. How about Oh, can everybody hear
me? Hello. Hi. Okay. Tell me again. Uh,
all of these and then the black boxes.
So, do these first. Let's do these first
in case I can't read these. Sure. Okay.
These What? What are the these the Just
ignore the stars. Ignore those. Damn.
Uh, hello everybody. Can you hear me?
Hello, Jess.
Um, thank you guys for being here. I'm
really sorry I'm late. I actually had to
eat. So, uh, I probably set a new world
record on how quickly to down a New York
strip. Um, anyway, thank you for waiting
and it's great to have everybody here
tonight. So, thank you.
Uh before we get started, there actually
is some people I'd really like to thank
for everything that they've
done for this event. And of course, I
have so many notes. Sorry, I've been
running around. I had no kind of repair.
I actually wanted to ah here it is. Uh
first off, I did want to thank KPro and
Kalazars for everything that they've
done.
really couldn't have put it off without
you guys. Thank you. I'm really bummed
that Mike couldn't be here. Also, I hope
he's doing good. Uh Cynthia, thank you
for being up here for helping MCC this
uh Emma and Jam with Treasure Hunt with
us. Thank you guys for live streaming
and all the support this week. Thank
you.
Uh Rebecca at the Chamber of Commerce.
Thank you for uh shutting down the
street and making things happen.
I'd also like to thank Daniel and the
film crew for everything they've been
doing throughout the week.
Huge help.
I The guys are everywhere all the time.
I don't I don't know how they do it. Uh
and of course all of you guys. Um this
is really what it's about. So,
thank you for you.
And last but not least, I really did
want to thank Debbie at the bookstore. I
think she did a phenomenal job.
So, I I know the real reason here all
these questions. Uh there were a lot and
I did almost I almost had enough time to
get through all of them, but not quite.
So, I haven't had any time to prepare.
You'll have to probably give me a slight
amount of grace here because I could
totally screw up these answers, but I'm
going to try my best. Uh, so Cynthia's
going to be reading them. Uh, and from
my perspective, actually, to make this
fair, hold on. Hold on. Sorry. What do
you say? To Oh, test test.
To make sure this is fair, I'm just
going to shuffle them right now. So, we
uh I don't know if we'll get through all
of these, but we're going to do our
best. Get the one closer to you. Okay.
Yeah.
But Justin, I can start with you or do
you want me to start? Uh, surprise me.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Maybe we'll Maybe we
can.
Can I talk while you're doing that?
Do whatever you like.
Okay. I just want everyone to know that
um I don't know a week or whatever ago,
Justin asked me if I would be the one to
ask him a question for the Q&A.
Okay, we got one working. Okay, so let
me talk into your mic. Why don't we do
that? Thank you. Okay.
Okay. So, while they're fixing the the
microphone. Okay. Can you all hear me
now? Okay. So, so what I was starting to
say before was a couple weeks ago,
Justin asked me if I would ask the
questions for the Q&A. And I said, "Are
you crazy? Because you never know what
I'm going to say." And he assured me
that he was good with it. So, it's like
I am honored to be the one to ask the
questions. But what Justin doesn't know
is for every question that he says he
won't answer, I'm going to hit him with
a shot of bear spray, which I have,
which I have. And
And
I'm going to start in the center of his
body like I did myself. And then we will
work from there.
G. Thanks.
You're hiding here.
All right. I think we're going to start
with the questions. I actually did want
to
You're stressing me out here.
Uh I actually did want to say a lot
more, but I know we're a little pressed
for time now. Uh things kind of got a
little behind schedule today. So, thanks
for being patient. I really appreciate
it. Uh but we'll we'll fire off some
questions here and see where we land. Do
you want to start with some of the
questions or would you like me to read
them? Sure. Okay. We'll
we'll we'll see if this works. Okay.
Okay. Don't be looking.
Okay. Forest Finn's first clue was WW.
Can you tell us what is your first clue
in your poem?
Yes. Okay. Uh, but I want to make sure I
get it right. So, I want to look at my
own poem to make sure. Can I take a look
at it? Is there somebody has a book
handy by chance? Hey,
okay. Yeah, I want to make sure I answer
this correctly. Um,
I think the most
actionable
first clue in the poem
that gives you
sufficient context
would be
as hope surges clear and bright.
[Applause]
Okay, question number two. This is what
most of us want to know.
Has anyone reached the checkpoint?
To my uncertain knowledge,
no.
I'll also say that as far as I know
surprisingly actually uh I have not
heard anyone mention the correct answer
to the cipher yet. Uh
and I think I mentioned there is one
other arguably technical thing that is
involved in in solving this. Uh it's not
like a core part of the poem but it's
something that I think people would find
interesting.
Uh, and only one person in the world has
solved it so far. And they've been very
quiet about it. I don't think I've seen
it. Actually, no. I did see it one time
on one social media venue, which was
actually kind of funny because everyone
blew right past him and didn't give him
the time of day and no one noticed that
he had figured it out. So, that was
pretty interesting. Wow, good answer.
Nice. Wow.
Okay, next. Are you at last halfway
through the poem clues when you reach
the checkpoint?
Let me read that. Okay, this one number
nine.
Are you at least halfway through
the poem?
Yes, I think so. Yep, that's fair to
say. Good answer.
Uh, the question was, are you at least
halfway through the poem clues when you
reach the checkpoint?
Did not
read the squares or don't read the
squares. No stars. No. Oh, I thought I
was supposed to read the squares. The
squares. Yeah, you can read them or can
squares. Yes. Stars. No squares. Yes,
that's what we're doing. Okay, perfect.
We're good.
Okay, now we know the rules.
It's a good thing so you don't get bear
sprrayed. Okay. Are there any clues or
hints in the songs in your treasure
hunt?
Are there any clues or hints in the
songs in your treasure hunt?
Yes. Whoa. Wow.
Good answer.
Good.
Okay. Next. Is there a hint in the
statement you traveled over 9,000 miles
in two trips?
Do you want to read the words? Yeah, let
me rere.
Is there a hint in the statement you
traveled over 9,000 miles in two trips?
The purpose of the 9 mile or over 9,000
milei statement was
to convey that I traveled a great
distance
throughout the Rockies and the American
West as part of hiding the treasure.
And
there is no it's really not meant to
read in anything more than that. It's
basically meant to say that I traveled a
great distance and somewhere along my
route I hid the treasure. I could have
been at the near the beginning of the
route, in the middle, in the end,
somewhere along the path.
Good one.
Okay, this is especially important for
someone like for me like of my stature.
For anyone who would struggle with
carrying 60 pounds in one trip, can you
give us any advice on how to retrieve
the treasure container in its contents
successfully?
So, in other words, if I if if I can't
carry the the um
the treasure and the container in one
trip,
what's your advice?
So, if you've figured out exactly where
the treasure is at,
you will have sufficient
time to plan how you wish to retrieve
it.
Would I be able to bring a llama?
I have a friend in Dylan who has a llama
and she said or an alpaca. Well,
whatever. Some kind of a pack animal.
That's a big difference.
Is that Oh my god. Is that a clue then?
It depends on He just said it depends if
it's an alpaca, a llama, or a mule.
I I think actually any of those animals
would be able to help you out.
[Music]
Okay, next one. Why will you not tell us
what the treasure container is?
You know, I I've been hesitant to
mention what the container is. uh mainly
because of artificial intelligence
and also
to prevent people from creating
decoys or uh for someone to claim that
they have found it and to recreate what
the container looks like in order to
make a farce and upset people. As we all
know, that happens from time to time.
Unfortunately, I think there's a bad
apple in every bunch. It's not to say
that there's any in this room.
But uh uh it's also AI because I think
as time progresses, artificial
intelligence will soon be in a position
where
it will be a formidable force when it
comes to things like treasure hunts. And
so I think actually it's a bigger topic.
Um it's kind of a strange thing to think
about. You know, AI AI is on the
precipice of encapsulating the entirety
of human knowledge.
And it's not just a function of having
the knowledge, it's acting on that
knowledge in an intelligent manner.
And so very soon AI will be smarter than
all of us in this room combined.
And it's a bit of a paradox.
How do you create
a puzzle for an intellect that dwarfs
your own?
It's like a mouse trying to create a
puzzle for a human. It sounds pretty
silly and that's really where we stand
with artificial intelligence. And so a
big portion of the time that I spent
designing this treasure hunt was to make
it accessible and understandable and
approachable by humans but not by AI.
And that's a really hard thing to do
actually because
[Applause]
[Music]
Soon we'll be in a position where I
think that those those two will start to
blend together in a way that is kind of
scary.
And if you take that one step further
and you were to have AI built into say a
robot, that gets very scary. You could
actually have a legion of robots that go
out and say find the treasure. Uh, I
know it sounds crazy, but I do genuinely
believe that we're not far off from
that. And that's really something that I
did not want to happen.
And time will tell whether or not that
actually works out to our advantage.
But, uh, uh, we'll we'll see how it
goes.
[Applause]
[Music]
This is this is a good one. Do you think
that once someone is successful in
reaching the checkpoint that they will
be the ultimate finder?
Do you think that once someone is
successful in reaching the checkpoint
that they will be the ultimate finder?
So, I know there's some probably some
folks in this room who have no idea what
this checkpoint business is. Uh, there's
a lot of kind of context that have built
up to this. I've had a number of
interviews over the past where I had
mentioned that a portion of this
treasure hunt involves for what I call,
a lack of a better term, a checkpoint.
And it's a way for you to know that
you're trending in the right direction.
um kind of consider it like something
that you may find along the way that you
realize unequivocally without a doubt, I
know that I'm correct.
I I did this on purpose um partially to
combat some of the AI concerns.
And so I think it is fair to say whoever
finds the checkpoint has an excellent
chance of finding the treasure as well.
Good one.
Okay.
Were there any clues or lines in your
poem that changed significantly from the
first draft to the final version?
So, I mentioned this before, but for
those that are not aware, I wrote the
bulk of that poem in a number of hours.
It was like I don't know probably 6
hours or less. Um
and I think from the time that I origin
So two things. First off, I purposely
didn't finish the entire poem until the
day the book went to print. And hello.
Oh, I did that on purpose because I
didn't want I wanted to make sure no one
had access to the poem beforehand. It
was really important to me that no one
had a big leg up over anybody else. So,
if you imagine there's editors involved,
uh there's uh uh the printing company,
uh illustrators, all sorts of people.
And it is true that they had access to
subsets of the book ahead of time, but
no one had access to the poem until the
very end because I never finished it
until the last hour.
And
despite that last bit that I filled in
at the end, to my recollection, nothing
significantly changed from the very
first draft that I wrote. So it was I
think I only tweaked maybe two words
tops. So it was pretty pretty static.
Very good. Thank you. Okay.
Are you planning on ruling out a search
state?
Like
like Montana,
you better get ready for the bear spray.
Um,
you know,
I think Oh boy.
Just all you have to do is I mess with
you.
You know,
there have been a lot of people asking
for extra hints and clues, and I totally
get it. Um, what's a little bit
different right now compared to Forest
Fence Treasure Hunt is that we're what,
March, April, May, we're like 3 months
in. I think Forest, you know, for the
first what couple of years at least, uh,
didn't really give much of anything as I
recall.
And so, I think we're still really
early. Um, I'm hesitant to narrow down
the search area significantly, uh, to
give everybody a chance because I feel
like there are some people that are just
starting out on this and I know that
especially during the summer months,
people are planning their travel and I
guess it's kind of it's kind of crappy
either way now that I think about it. So
I spent a lot of time searching in Idaho
for forest fence treasure for instance
and then he went and cut the state and
it's like wow there were a lot of people
that were really upset. It's like I
spent all this time searching in Idaho
and then he just cuts it like to me it
was great like thank you. I mean I
enjoyed the the treasure hunting there
in the state but great I have less
search area now. Uh, so I don't want
people to be upset, but I think
eventually if it has not been found, I
will start eliminating states. I really,
this, you know, this treasure hunt is
not meant to last a millennia or
anything like that. Um, I want it to
continue to progress. And so I think if
there isn't any real kind of tangible
progress over the coming months, I'll
I'll certainly consider that. But I'm
sorry to disappoint tonight. I'm not
gonna eliminate any state, but uh I'll
consider it in the future.
[Applause]
So since he just said the words forest
fin
living, did you make a blaze on a tree?
I I will answer that. Yes, actually I
will answer that.
No,
just no.
The problem the problem. Okay, I'm going
to rant just a little bit. Sorry. Go
ahead. Um, that was I wouldn't say
problem, but that was one of the Yeah,
it was a problem. You know, that was one
of the problems with the forest ven
treasure hunt, I felt, is that the blaze
or the marker at the end was something
that could not stand the test of time.
There were a lot of things that could
have caused the blaze to go away. It
could have been a forest fire. It could
have been a strong wind that had blown
blown the tree down. Um, you know, an
earthquake. A lot of different things I
think that could cause damage like that.
And it was important to me that it's
designed in a way where it can stand the
test of time. So, I don't have any
clues. I didn't put, you know, anything
out in the woods or the wilderness that
um
that would be subject to destruction by
natural forces. Now, I can't control
everything. Uh I suppose under a very
specific set of circumstances, damage
could occur. Uh but I would I would know
if it did. And that's not fair to
anybody to be out searching for
something that cannot be found. Um so if
something like that were to happen in,
you know, astronomically low chance, uh
I think it's only fair to everybody that
I would just tell you it it got damaged.
Sorry. But I I don't anticipate anything
like that happening. So yeah. Awesome.
Thanks. Thanks for answering that.
Okay. Th this is sort of long and
complicated. Can you verify 100% the
treasure container and its contents are
not a proxy item. The treasure container
and gold treasure etc. is actually
located at the final resting spot.
Good question.
So, there have been a number of people
that have asked me, "Oh, maybe you put,
you know, something out in the
wilderness and it's like a key to a
safety deposit box and then you go there
and get the treasure." That's really not
what I was going for here. I wanted like
that shock and awe, right? You get
there, you find the treasure, and it's
real physical in the wilderness. And as
I mentioned before, it's filled to the
gills with stuff with treasure. I I
could not put anything else in there. It
just wouldn't fit. Uh but it is out
there. It's not, you know, in some bank
somewhere or something like that. It's
it's out there hidden to be found. Thank
you.
Okay. Now, now we're to the questions
that I haven't pre-eread, so hopefully I
can read the writing. Okay. Number one,
what is the title of the book that Uncle
Hyram gave you?
Yeah. So, for those unaware, uh I think
it's in the the story the concistador
conquest. I talk about my uncle Hyram
who's sitting in the back right there.
[Laughter]
[Applause]
He gave me a a book on Spanish clues and
markers, and I was pretty enthralled
with it at the time. Of course, it led
to Sunburn, but I don't blame him. Uh, I
can visualize the book, but I don't
recall the title. And if someone can
track it down, I love it. It's it has a
thick black border and then inside it
has a a white inset area that has a
bunch of Spanish symbols inside of it.
And it has a pretty uh overt title,
something like treasure symbols of the
Southwest or something like that. Uh
sorry,
treasure.
There's treasure inside. No.
Uh, I don't recall the name, but if
someone happens upon the book, I'd be
happy to announce it on, you know, my
website or something. It's not a big
secret or anything like that.
Early Spanish signs and symbols. That
sounds right. Uh, if I actually saw the
cover, I'd be sure, but that sounds
right. Yeah. It wasn't a very thick
book. It was probably about pretty thin.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's right. It
had some hand drawings in it. Yeah, you
got it. That's the one.
What she said.
Okay, this is awesome because this is
actually the question I put in at the
bookstore. So, I I can give a little bit
of background. So the question is, are
you willing to talk about any of your
crazy adventures that are not in Beyond
the Maps Edge, like stepping on a sea
urchin in Mexico? And the reason I'm
asking that is I've had people actually
ask me saying, you know, Justin well, do
you think he has elaborated and made up
some of the stories? And I said, hell
no. This if something bad could happen,
it has happened to him.
Okay. So, I love the I love the sea
urchin story. The sea urchin. Oh, jeez.
Maybe some of the other ones were on the
list. Whatever. Yeah. Uh, so when I
first started thinking about this book,
it was basically just a bunch of chicken
scratch. It was terrible. Um, and I had
way more chapters than anybody would
ever care to read. And I didn't want it
to be like a math textbook, you know,
and be so daunting. And so I started
just having to cut stories. So there are
a number of stories that I did not
include.
Um the one that she mentioned actually I
never wrote about but the the the
reader's digest version would be uh I
was in Puerto Varta. I was probably 13
years old and I was battling the waves
out there with my brother and I stepped
on something. I didn't have my glasses
on and so it was all fuzzy. Uh, and I
pulled this thing out of my foot and I
got really dizzy and it was super
painful and I passed out. Uh, and I woke
up in a Mexican hospital and I spent
three days there. It was pretty
terrible. I don't recommend it. Um, I
think it was some kind of sea urchin. U,
but I don't really know the details on
it. So, uh, but yeah, I mean I have
other stories. I mean, I can probably
just post them on my website or
something. Um, I'll figure out what to
do with them. They're they're not
terribly interesting. So, yes, they are.
Yes, they are. Yeah, they are.
Okay. This is a multi-question about one
subject. What was your first computer?
What computer did you la last buy as a
kid? Were you a PC or a Mac guy? Are you
an Android user or iOS?
Do you want to see all of these? That's
a
That's a lot of questions. Uh uh. Wow.
Uh first computer that was
it was an Apple 2e.
Yes, I'm old.
Uh what computer did you last buy? Uh I
think it was a MacBook Pro. Uh mostly
for for work more than anything. Not
very exciting. Uh as a kid, were you a
PC or Mac guy? Uh despite my first
computer being an Apple 2e, I was more
of a PC guy uh for a number of years. I
think probably until I left Microsoft in
20 2012, I think it was. And uh yeah, I
actually don't don't throw things at me,
but these days I I normally use an iOS
device, not Android.
How far back has your family genealogy
been traced?
You know, somebody actually emailed me
with a a family tree, I think, on
ancestry.com that they had put together.
It was actually really interesting. Uh
I've been meaning to merge that in with
the one that I have. I think on my
father's side, I I'm able to trace it
back quite a bit more than my mother's
side. um mostly French and German and
English. So, uh certainly, you know,
pre-mayflower days. Um I don't recall
the exact dates, though.
Are you going to do holidays? See what
we can do. Okay, good. Okay, I like this
one. What is your best advice to
approaching a solved poem, book? I don't
know that word. What's the strategy in
the best process?
Wait, good question.
Poem, book, show,
best process or strategy.
So, I think most people that have heard
about this uh had no idea about this
forest fen thing. Um, so I think like
the show is just a good primer for that
to kind of understand a little bit of
the backstory. There are definitely
hints
in the series that I I uh snuck in. Um,
but you know, the the the bulk of the
important stuff I would say is in is in
the book and the poem. So I guess the
the process I would suggest is you watch
the series, try not to fall asleep.
uh you even more challenging try and
read that book um and then read the poem
a few times and then go back through it
again uh the show really slowly and and
think about each scene.
Uh and actually this is kind of funny to
my uncertain knowledge. There are two
hints in the Netflix series that I I I
laugh every time they come up because
they're to me like they're just super
super obvious. Uh and no one has noticed
and I'm just kind of blown away at this
point and I I feel like it's a joke or
something that nobody's telling me. But
there are are two scenes in particular
where I just I don't understand what's
happening because it's super obvious.
It's like I almost just want to say it
like No. No.
Okay. Wait, wait a second. Okay. Okay.
The The next question, and I'm not I
This is Siri. The next question.
What would you be willing to share this
evening that is a clue that would shake
the Frontier Center and Posie Treasure
Hunting Community?
Oh boy.
[Applause]
I'm I'm having an internal debate. Just
give me a little.
[Music]
[Applause]
Okay. How do I phrase this?
It's funny. I don't recall which
episode. It's either two or three. Um,
it is a scene
that does not have me in it.
Um,
but it was a scene that I had some
control over.
I think if you rewatch it, it'll be
pretty obvious. I hope. Yeah.
Thank you.
I was worried I was going to have to get
the bear spray, but I didn't.
This is from Sterling. What is your
favorite color and food?
Color and food. Not shrimp. Not shrimp.
Uh, yeah. Well, I I pretty much always
wear blue, so blue is my favorite color.
Kind of a navy blue. Uh food.
Chicken breast.
Wait, who said that?
That's a dicey dicey answer. Uh
that's awesome. It's going to sound
strange. Uh I actually really like okra.
I mean I know, right? It was slimy. Uh,
fried okra is pretty awesome.
What app or system do you recommend to
see established property lines to make
sure we stay on public land?
So, for those that don't know, uh, the
treasure is publicly accessible. You
don't have to go gallally vanting on
somebody's private property. Please,
please, please don't do that.
Uh, I'm sure especially people that live
in this area would very much appreciate
it and everybody else throughout the
entire search range. Let's just uh keep
it safe and fair. Um, and legal. Um, so
there are a few apps out there. Um, you
know, I I think they're available both
on Android and iOS. One of them is I
think the most approachable one is
called OnX. That's ONX. They have like a
backpacking version, I think, and they
have a hunting one. any of those will
do. And what you can do is if there's a
search area you're interested in, you
can kind of zoom in on that area and
it'll show you all the surrounding
property rights so you don't have to
guess. And if it's not publicly
accessible and just cross it off right
away. And then uh if you're a more
advanced user, uh what I had used for
many years is an app called Gaia. That's
G A I A. It's a little more advanced
because there's a ton of different
layers that you can add to it and it's
uh uh yeah, I'm not for the faint of
heart, but OnX does great. Oh, I see a
hand raised.
Will I specify if it's on federal or
state land? Uh, no. Uh
but it's it's it's publicly accessible
as of today.
saying that we can use the water.
[Music]
Oh, we have a loophole virtuoso in the
room.
So, I hope I don't screw up the law
here. uh don't take legal advice from
me, but it is my understanding that in
many places in Montana, if you are on a
waterway that is considered navigable,
in other words, uh one where you can
float a a watercraft,
you can actually float through private
property because the owner uh well,
rather the person is allowed to access
the area up to the high water mark as I
recall. Don't quote me on that. You
might want to look it up. Uh, but it is
fair to say if it's publicly accessible,
it's fair game.
Okay.
Did you design and make the cover art?
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. So,
the cover art on the book, um,
I actually did design that first and I
gave it to
a cover designer who iterated on it and
kind of cleaned it up to make it
presentable and I think he did a
fantastic job. So, yeah, it's fair to
say that the original image was created
by me and then he continued to evolve
it. I see a hand up. Yes. The double
arcs something that exists or that
is the double arcs. Wow. Uh something
that exists or had to be created?
That's a tricky question
actually.
I want to answer this. Um it's actually
a really strange question knowing what I
know.
Um
ask the question one more time.
Is a double arc something that exists or
were created?
Let me think about this.
I don't want to I don't want to give
away too much on this, so I'm going to
have to punt. I apologize.
[Applause]
That's okay. No, that's okay. No bear
spray. That's okay.
Now that the Netflix show came out, how
many clues are in the show?
How many clues are in the show? I don't
think I've actually, funny enough, I
don't think I've ever counted. Um, and
some of them
are kind of compounds. You have to look
at a number of of scenes in order to
understand something singular.
So with that in mind, the number of of
singular clues, let me just uh count
them up in my mind. One second.
Um see one, two, three.
There are at least
five singular clues at least. I think
probably more if if I really thought
about it. Yeah, at least five. That's
good. Thank you. That's that's that's a
good answer.
Next. This cipher is tough. Can you give
us a hint?
Uh, the cipher is actually really meant
to be approachable. It's not you don't
need an advanced math degree or
anything. Actually, you don't need a
math degree at all to to uh solve this
thing. I mean, if you can add two
numbers together, if you can do basic
say multiplication, whatever it you
you're fine. So, um
which two numbers?
Which two numbers?
You pick. Um I want to make sure I get
this right. What was the question? Oh,
the cipher. The cipher. Um,
the cipher
the cipher is not in
the poem. It is elsewhere. We'll say
that. Okay. Well, that's that's not too
good. That's part of that's a good
answer. And I I should also clarify the
cipher is was just I couldn't help
myself. Uh, it's not a critical hint.
You don't need to solve the cipher to
find the treasure.
Uh, more than anything.
All right. Uh, more than anything, the
the cipher is more of a nod or a hint to
what the container is.
[Music]
That's good.
That's good.
Okay. The question is, is it walking
distance from water silent flight to
round the bend past the hole?
A little complicated. Yeah. Uh just to
reread this. Um is it walking distance
from water's silent flight to round the
bend past the hole? Boy,
I'm not sure if I want to answer this.
Let me think about this a moment.
The difference for a 71year-old person
and a 10year-old,
that would be me with 71.
Um,
yes.
Yeah, I think that's fair. Yep. That's
awesome. Good one.
That that that helps. That's good. On a
scale of one to Forest Finn, how would
you rate the difficulty of your hunt?
You know that difficulty is such a
subjective thing. I I think for
something that is very approachable to
one person can be next to impossible for
another. And that and that's actually uh
where a lot of my time or my thinking
process was spent. I designed this in a
way where it can be solved in different
ways, but you'll all get there at the
end of the day. So it's not um
uh how do I phrase this? Um, there are
there are multiple ways to solve this
treasure hunt and some are arguably more
challenging than others. And I think
there's probably what I call an optimal
solution and then there's there are a
few ways that I actually basically put
in safeguards in case someone might not
quite understand
one clue, they could still limp along
and figure it out. If that makes sense.
Um, so the question I want to make sure
I get this right. Uh, so on a scale of
one to forest fen, how would you rate
the difficulty? So I don't know how you
all felt when you saw forest fen
solution or the purported solution. Uh,
how did you feel about that? Did you
think it was really hard or too easy?
Uh, and I think that's different for
different people. Um, some people might
have said that's the most ridiculous
solution I've ever heard of. uh may may
or may not have been hard, but they just
didn't like it. And that's the issue is
I know when the solution is revealed,
there will be people in this room that
will say, "That's the dumbest thing I
ever heard of." I know it. Uh and there
will be other people that will I I think
be maybe delighted by it. I hope. Uh so
there's no pleasing everybody. I I did
the best that I could, I think, given
the time and resources that I had, which
is actually another thing I should
mention. Um, I actually thought that I
had more time. So, I really thought that
the series was going to come out later
in the year. And when I got the call
saying, "Hey, it's coming out in like a
month or a month and a half." I was kind
of like, "I got to get moving." I mean,
of course, I had already hidden the
treasure. Uh, but I actually wanted more
time to kind of hammer on the book. Uh,
I called my editor and said, "Hey, guess
what? I've got a bunch of chicken
scratch. You got one week to edit this.
Good luck." Uh, so it was just a total
scramble. Uh, I don't know if anybody's
familiar with the publishing process,
but it's pretty intense. So, uh, I don't
think that answers the question really,
but on a scale of one to forest fen
somewhere in the middle. How's that?
That works. That's good.
How big was the biggest fish you have
caught?
Well, I I think my dad has already added
10 pounds to it. So, uh I'll only add
one more pound. No, I it was in New
Mexico at Heron Lake and actually it was
kind of cool day cuz I it's the fishing
that I hated which is trolling and you
got a lot of line out. It's a lead line
and it's colorcoded to show how deep in
the water you are and got a ton of line
out and you know the rod just just
almost cracks in half and well we're
hung up on a stump you know and so uh I
just remember reeling on this thing
trying to reel in the stump and at some
point I realized oh my gosh it's moving
it's it's a it's a fish and it actually
at the time ended up being the second
largest uh trout in the state of New
Mexico and it was actually in the local
newspapers and stuff. It was pretty
exciting at the time because I was
really young. Uh, and uh, I guess for
legal reasons or as my dad put it, for
legal reasons. Uh, it was listed in the
paper that he caught it, which was kind
of funny.
Uh, and of course uh, you know, he
wanted to have this fish mounted. Um,
and it was uh, the the taxiderermis kept
the fish over the winter and we got it
in the spring. And when it came to the
house, my dad looked at it and he says,
"You know that that fish must have
shrunk in being in the freezer all
winter. It was definitely way bigger
than this, you know." So, I still have
the fish actually. It's it's at my
house. But, uh, yeah, that was the
biggest. I don't recall how big it is,
but I'm sure somebody could track down
the newspaper article and see. So, yeah.
Justin, did you really break your leg?
Yeah. So, for those that have not read
the book, I mentioned that I had broke
my tibia and I had to hide a treasure
after doing that. Yes, I did break it.
Uh, it was not a fun situation. I was on
the mend at the time. I really actually
didn't want to go around kind of like a
peg leg guy hiding a treasure, but I was
out of time. That was basically I spent
as much time as I could recovering and
then uh for a number of reasons I had to
just go and do this and so I had to do
it with a busted leg. It was not super
fun. Yeah.
How do you tie your fly hook to your
line?
Well, everybody loves a good clinch
knot. Uh, I I think there's probably
some argument as to whether or not the
enhanced clinch knot is a better knot
than the original, but I generally
prefer the classic clinch knot.
The treasure is on public land. The sale
of BLM land have an effect on the hidden
treasure. So, I guess he he's saying,
would the sale of BLM land have an
effect on the hidden treasure?
So avoiding the
political implications of this as much
as I can, um I think it is fair to say
that there is a lot of public land right
now that is at risk. And it is uh at
risk of being sold to private
individuals and to companies.
And this is a big reason why I hid the
treasure is I wanted people to be aware
and I wanted uh excuse me I wanted I
wanted people to appreciate the lands
that we have. And so I felt if I could
get people outdoors and to experience it
that they would be better stewards and
that they would uh be champions of the
lands that mean so much to I hope
everybody here
So the question is uh will this have an
effect on the treasure and I think the
honest answer is I don't know. Uh things
can change and so I'll I'll definitely
keep people updated. If there's a
situation where, you know, the treasure
is basically inaccessible at some point,
I will do my very best to let you know
if I'm still around, which I certainly
hope. I don't want the treasure hunt to
last that long. So, uh um at this point,
and this is actually why I mention I
think in the legal language you on the
website and in the book, I know that's a
lot of boring stuff. Um, but this is why
I mention as of this date it is publicly
accessible. Uh, because I don't know
what tomorrow brings and I really hope
that our public lands remain public.
And, uh, I hope everybody in this room
appreciates it as much as I do.
[Applause]
Justin, does the book mention the
checkpoint? Does the poem mention the
checkpoint?
So, the poem is in the book. And so, I
think it's fair to say
I'm not trying to mince words. Um,
the the poem does in effect mention the
checkpoint because that is a stage of of
your journey. So, it is fair to say that
uh the checkpoint is part of the poem.
Yeah.
You guys don't feel like you have to
stick around if you're falling asleep.
You can just leave.
It really does.
Could you talk about your five-year job
experience during college and after what
was your major in college? Yeah.
So, first off, I I never graduated. Um,
I studied computer science. I left
college when I was a junior
uh for an internship that turned into a
full-time position down in Tucson,
Arizona. And then from there, um, yeah,
I think I mentioned this in the book. It
was my tour to fails. I had a lot of
disastrous interviews. I was really
terrible. I'm I'm uh public speaking is
a struggle for me, so I apologize. Um,
so yeah, I ended up at at Microsoft and
I worked there for a number of years uh
on a lot of different things and I
worked at the Walt Disney Company for
the better part of a decade. I think I
worked in pretty much every division
they had anywhere from consumer products
to their international division to, you
know, uh, Disney streaming service, uh,
uh, Imagineering, uh, a little bit of
everything. It was a ton of fun. Uh,
I've worked at uh Visa in collaboration
with Apple and the Apple Apple Pay
system you use on your phone. Uh, golly,
what else? Um,
a lot of startups over the years too.
Uh, it was kind of a blur. It was a lot
of companies. Um, but always new
challenges. Uh, so yeah, I did I studied
computer science but I I uh left my
junior year.
Okay, this is a series of of two things
or people and I guess you're to pick
which you prefer. Bob Dylan or Joanie
Mitchell.
Do you know who they are?
Uh, you laugh, but I'm afraid to answer
that question honestly. Uh,
I'll say Bob Dylan because I'm much more
aware who that is.
Beatles or Rolling Stones? Oh man.
Oh boy. I feel like I'm going to get
lynched either way here. Uh, you can't
go. I'll say the Beatles. Okay.
Is that Unix or Linux? Yeah, Unix or
Linux. Huh? Unix or Linux? Geez. I mean,
I I think these days there are some
really good flavors or distributions of
Linux. So, I think for most people,
Linux is probably much more approachable
than a more raw Unix system. Yeah. Okay.
Bill Gates or Steve Jobs?
This is going to get you in trouble.
Oh my goodness.
You know, for better or for worse, uh
Steve Jobs was a visionary. Uh I think
he had a profound understanding of not
only
technology but timing and timing in the
market is just as important if not more
important than the technology itself.
There are many cases in history where
somebody's designed something incredible
but it was too early and people weren't
ready to accept it yet. And so uh Steve
Jobs understood the whole marketing
strategy. Uh, and I feel like, oh boy,
it's probably gonna get me in trouble. I
feel like Apple has lost a little bit
about uh little of that since since
Steve has left. And uh it's been a kind
of a slow but steady decline. Uh Bill
Gates on the other hand uh I mean the
guy was a brilliant businessman. Uh I
have a lot of respect for him. I
actually funny story. Uh I used to work
at building 50 at Microsoft and I was
always in a hurry. I don't really know
why, but I was always running around
trying to solve the next thing. And I
ran I ran around a hallway and I knocked
him over. Uh, super embarrassing. Um,
and I think as I recall, he mentioned it
like a conference the next day about
some engineer running him over. I was
sure I was going to get fired.
Uh, but I had a tremendous amount of
respect for him, too. So, it's not that
I'm choosing one or the other. I just
think they had different strengths.
Yeah.
So, I have a question that's actually
not on the card, but now we're talking
about Microsoft and and we know that
Justin has gotten patents while he
worked at Microsoft.
Would you be willing to talk about any
of your patents? Oh, at at Microsoft and
we saw them. So, we saw them on the
shelf in the Netflix series. So, Oh,
yeah. This is probably pretty boring
stuff. Sorry. Uh no, I mean uh it's
technology stuff. Uh so there's so uh
for instance um ah like on your iPhone
if you were to you have an app there and
you tap on it and generally it acts asks
for credentials you know a username and
password to log in. Uh uh that was one
of my patents from many years ago. um
the concept of of bringing a website
closer to uh your device and having a
more enhanced experience. Uh and it was
very contextual. So for instance uh
let's say Bank of America uh you have a
BFA app now instead of going to bank of
america.com on your phone. Some people
still do but the app is generally
better. Uh but the underpinnings for how
all of that fits together are uh some of
the patents. Yeah.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer here.
Star Trek or Star Wars?
These are very divisive questions.
Uh,
you know, I'm I guess I'm not a very
good nerd. This is funny.
So,
I had never seen either for the longest
time. And I recall when I was in
elementary school, uh, kids would
roleplay uh, from Star Wars and I had no
idea who any of the characters were. And
so I was always, uh, R2-D2,
so I just kind of walk around going beep
beep boop, you know, it was the safe
role for me at the time. Uh, but years
later when I actually watched them, I
think in middle school or junior high as
as it were at the time, uh, I think I'd
prefer Star Wars.
the original ones to be clear. Don't
Yeah.
Okay. I'm living again. In case you
haven't already figured it out, Justin
is a genius. And Justin, would you be
willing to talk about the how you
created the Star Wars in Disney World?
you know, the time that I spent in
Imagineering was really cool and there
were a a lot of projects that were
worked on at that time. Um,
in fact, I think probably still to this
day there's some NDAs in place. So, I
kind of have to be careful about what I
what I mention. But um uh one of the
things that I created was uh what they
called media vault which was all of
Imagineering had a lot of ideas flowing
in and there were a lot of different
ways for these ideas to be captured and
they needed a a very secure system
because if if these ideas like Star Wars
Land for instance were to leak out then
it would be a big deal. It would be a
big problem for the company and so uh
there's a lot of kind of security that
went around creating that that system.
uh but you know work in the in the parks
itself and uh you know across the across
the the the two major parks in the in
the US was was really interesting but I
can't really expand too much on a lot of
that yet. Okay. Thanks.
From where you leave your car to search,
is it a mile or less to the treasure
container?
Uh, this is a really strange question to
me. Um, from where you leave your car to
search, is it a mile or less to the
treasure chest? Uh, you said chest. Uh,
it's not a chest. Uh, I should be clear.
It looks like it says chest. It's not a
chest. It is a container, though. Um,
I don't think this question works
because
um, by the time you're going
to get the treasure, you're not
searching, you're retrieving.
Wow, that's a good one. That is good.
Awesome.
You want him to say You want him to say
it again? Okay.
Uh,
by the time you're going to get the
treasure, um, you're not searching,
you're retrieving.
That's good. What is your most
proficient programming language?
Uh, so for those who don't know, I was I
still am a programmer, software
engineer, or whatever you'd like to call
it, uh, for many years. Um I guess
probably most proficient language these
days would be
uh C++ or or Java.
I think he already answered this. Has
anyone reached the checkpoint? You
already you answered that. This one's
really super long. We'll save this till
the end.
Is there is there a range of elevation
where the treasure is and and I will
expound. So forest fen basically said
it's what between 5,000 and um whatever
10,200 ft.
Yeah. The American West has a very
diverse range of elevations. Um
pretty basic. Yeah, it's pretty basic.
Uh I mean I can I can put an upper bound
on it. Uh it's certainly below
11,000 ft.
[Applause]
How far is it from the first clue to the
last one in miles?
I think that's what it is. How far is it
from the first clue to the last one in
miles?
Um,
this actually
is not possible to answer.
Uh, and I'm not being koi. Um,
based on how the clues are structured, I
think it's the wrong question to ask.
It's the right question.
Is it hard to answer what now?
question.
Is it hard to answer these questions
because you have to iterate through the
poem more than one time? Um,
no. That's not why it's hard to answer.
No,
I think I think you answered that one
before. Okay. Are the clues in your poem
in consecutive order from top to bottom?
from the first clue to the treasure.
Yeah, I think for those who are aware, I
think I answered this at some point.
It's It's fair to say they're in
consecutive order. Yeah, this one that
is specific starting at the top of the
poem to the starting at the top to the
bottom. Yeah, that's fine. Yep, it's
consecutive. Yeah,
here's a Forest Fen question. Is there a
200 or 500 foot searcher?
So, for those that are unaware, uh,
Forest Fen had announced at some point
that someone was within a certain number
of feet of the treasure, and I think he
said, uh, either 200 or 500 feet,
depending on what stage of the treasure
hunt. Uh, it's probably a little little
early in the treasure hunt for me to
say, uh, how close people have been. Uh,
but there have been people
I'll say that there have been less than
uh I'm trying to recall some of the
emails I got.
There have been people that have been
less than
two miles and
certainly
even less than that. Yeah.
Okay.
Was it me
[Applause]
No comment.
This is a good one. Did you consider
railroad tracks a structure? Is the
entire hunt based on naturally occurring
structures and landscapes?
That's a hard-hitting question.
Uh, do I consider railroad tracks a
structure?
I consider them to be a man-made
structure. Yes, they were made by man.
Uh, they're not a building. They are a
structure. Is the entire hunt based on
naturally occurring structures and
landscapes?
So, I think I mentioned earlier that
there are a couple of different ways to
work through the poem. uh and I tried to
do that to be uh to accommodate how
different people think. And so depending
on how you interpret it, I think it it
could be true to say that yes, the
entire hunt could be based on naturally
occurring structures and landscapes. Uh
but I think some people could quibble.
Um, so I should clarify that by saying
there's one clue in here where arguably
someone could say there is a man-made
implication to it. Yeah.
Man, that's long.
Okay, this is good.
Is the port is the part of the river
where your mom's fishing photo is
accessible to public other than walking
up or downstream?
Yeah. So, there's a picture in the book
of my mother on the beaverhead. Uh she
is waiting
and that picture predates me. Um,
so I can't say with certainty, but my
guess just kind of knowing the landscape
is that it is likely not publicly
accessible on either side. You would
have to wade to it.
This is a multi-art one. Can you give a
floor the treasure is not below
[Music]
a floor? Uh, so I think this is an
elevation related question. Can you give
a floor the treasure is not below? Uh, I
think I not going to answer any other
elevation related questions, but uh,
it's below 11,000. Uh, uh, still contend
that no red herrings intentional or
otherwise. So
I did not put any intentional red
herrings in the book or the poem or
anything like that.
uh you know it's fair to say that like
the poem itself is is obfuscation right
it's a way to hide information otherwise
somebody would have already found the
treasure uh but in terms of red herrings
uh there's nothing intentional now there
might be some unintentional ones for
instance I'm you know I talk about I
don't know a you know say a green table
and somebody thinks oh it has to do with
the color green I didn't actually mean
for that I just mentioned the table's
green uh So, I cannot control uh how
other people interpret it, but to the
best of my abilities, no. Like, I didn't
put in any intentional red herrings into
the book or the poem or anything like
that. And then the last one was, will
you announce if the checkpoint is
reached?
Um
h
if I'm aware,
yes, I would announce that. Yeah.
[Applause]
Do you like pickles?
Do I like pickles?
Yeah. Uh, yes. I like dill pickles
especially.
I have a funny story about pickles, but
we'll save that for another time.
Why not wait for your leg to heal?
Yeah. Um, I think I talked a little bit
about that earlier. There was a number
of circumstances where I had to just get
things done and
uh it was really a function of time. I
just couldn't couldn't wait any longer
because there was a whole series of
events that were set in motion and
basically a schedule to keep so to speak
and so I had to act and it wasn't
optimal but uh just had to make it
happen.
I think you did this one. The cipher has
this old brain stump. any hints?
So, you Oh, yeah. I think I I mentioned
earlier uh the cipher is not in the
poem. Um so, I hope that helps. We'll
see how things go. We'll get a little
more time and uh maybe somebody will
figure it out. Yeah.
How do you feel AI changed the hunt?
Yeah, I know I mentioned that earlier.
Um, that was actually the biggest risk
that I saw to this trader hunt was
somebody whipping out chat GPT or
whatever the latest large language model
artificial intelligence offering is on
the market and just say punch it in and
oh here's the answer. Uh there are some
you know you'll notice I think in the
beginning of the book I do not give I
think permission for people to use uh
run the book through AI but I realized I
just cannot prevent that and so I did
everything in my power to ensure that AI
will not be the winner. Uh but it's
really hard to control. Like I mentioned
AI is getting very very smart and it
will soon be smarter than all of us if
it isn't already. So, uh, I did the best
that I could and I feel like as it
stands right now, uh, we're fending it
off. So, we'll we'll see how the future
holds.
This is sort of long. There was a small
D, like the letter D is in dog, hidden
just above the M in maps on the spine of
the book. Why was it removed in the new
print? Is it relevant or a clue to
something in this hunt?
Yeah. So, we're talking about some of
the formatting differences that showed
up between the first and and second
editions of the book. So, for those that
are unaware, if you look at your book,
you'll see on the cover uh it either has
like a little sticker on it, sort of
looks like a sticker, uh and some don't.
So, the first printing is the ones that
do not have the sticker. Both books are
fine. uh consider the one without the
sticker to be kind of a collector's
edition or something. Um uh but between
those two prints, I actually ended up
having to make some very small
formatting changes because the cover
designer noticed that the the spacing
wasn't exactly right and it was bugging
him more than it was bugging me. And so
he made some slight changes. There's
there's no intentional clues there uh in
differences in the cover between the
first and second edition. Yeah.
at all. Is there any clue in the cover
art at all? Uh I have not specified.
So that means yes.
I know. I know we have more questions,
but um I just actually wanted to follow
up on this hidden mark that I put in
this book that probably one of you have.
Um so before we get into that, uh I want
to mention what I'm shipping to whoever
wins. So, for anybody who's seen the
Netflix series, uh, the treasure I
stored in a Saddleback leather
briefcase.
Um, and I still have that original
briefcase that held the treasure and I'd
like to give it to whoever wins. Uh, so
I'm happy to ship that out. Uh
so if you will uh if you have a book
that you've purchased over the last few
days that has my signature on it uh turn
to page
150
and about halfway down the page oh I
heard a bingo. Oh I thought we had one.
See this is why I don't say what the
container is. No kidding.
uh page 150 about halfway down in black
ink that's sort of bled. I apologize. I
have written uh an email address and
it's a a customized email address that
goes straight to me. So if you're shy
and you don't want to say you won right
here. Uh that's fine. You can just email
me. Otherwise, if anybody has it here in
this room, feel free to stand up.
Wow. I actually thought somebody would
be here or the person would be here.
Okay. Well, uh, please spread the word.
It's on page 150. Um, unfortunately, the
email address kind of got a little
smudged with the ink. So, it's at
icloud.com, not lcloud,
uh, in case you're confused. Uh, so just
send me an email at that address, and
I'm happy to ship out the, uh, the
Saddleback uh, container to you.
[Applause]
I would really like to have that. Is
there any way I can manufacture it where
it would look real? Actually, there's
probably two other things that I'll
include just for fun. Uh, so people had
noticed that there were two coffee mugs
in one of the at least one of the
scenes. I'll ship you the coffee mugs as
well. So,
[Applause]
is the hiding spot meaningful for its
beauty? its symbolism or for sentimental
reasons.
Is the hiding spot
meaningful for its beauty, symbolism, or
sentimental reasons?
I would say all of the above.
Keeping that
Why are the ebook pictures in black and
white and why are they still in RGB
instead of grayscale?
Why is the coins picture in the ebook in
color?
I don't even know all. Yeah. So, I think
the question is why the heck is this
ebook in black and white? Why didn't you
just do it in color like the book? The
answer is because of compatibility. So
there are a lot of uh e-readers out
there that either do not support color
uh or they have uh severe constraints on
the size of the file and so I tried to
make it as as as small as possible.
That's basically it. And then
additionally I wanted at least one color
picture in there. So that's why I chose
the uh I think it's the coins in the
ebook that are all color. So if your
device supports color you'll see you'll
see that one in color.
These are a lot of questions. You guys
are going to fall asleep here. Maybe
just a few more. Maybe maybe we'll just
do a few more here. Yeah.
Oh, this is this is a good one. And it's
short.
If you were doing this treasure hunt,
how would you train Tucker to help you?
Ah.
As I mentioned, there are a few
different ways to approach this poem. I
mean, there is like a super brute force
way, but it would be very very
difficult. So, I mean, I suppose if you
had a dog that could sniff gold and
uh uh you were in a very specific area,
then that would be beneficial to you,
but that would be really, I think, uh
challenging to do uh overall. So, more
than anything, I think it's just uh uh
good outdoor manners, making sure that
the dog is a good steward, uh isn't
chasing after elk or worse, bears, you
know, and keeping your dog in control.
That's basically it. Oh, I see a hand
up.
Yeah. What measures did I take to ensure
that a random hiker or fisherman would
not happen upon it? Um, I touched on
this, I think, uh, a little bit in a
prior interview. I did not put it in
very close proximity to any man-made
trail. I I didn't want someone, you
know, trying to relieve themselves on
the side of the trail and, you know, pee
on it or something. So,
uh, so it is a little little a ways off.
Um, and then, um, yeah, I think that's
the only thing I want to say about that.
Yeah.
Okay, maybe a a couple of short ones
here. Can you drive a semi to the
location?
Can I drive a like a semi-truck? I think
so. Oh my goodness.
Can I draw Can you drive a semi to the
location? I assume he means a truck.
Yeah. Um
I I guess that means to the location of
the treasure itself. Uh, no, you you do
have to I'm sorry to say you have to
hike a little. Um, but not too far.
Sorry.
Can you drive the semi to the parking
space? Well, that's a loaded question.
That implies that there's a parking
space. Uh,
I I think that's all I'll say about
that. Yeah.
Will you continue giving clues
breadcrumbs during the hunt?
Will I continue to give clues? Uh, yeah,
at some point. I I feel like it's still
pretty early. Actually, I don't know if
it's early or not. Like, sometimes I'm
wondering like, wow, how how has this
not been found yet? Um, but yeah, I
think if it kind of drags on, I will I
will help out. Yeah.
I think this will be the the last
question here. And this this is what we
all have been dying to know. How much
did it hurt when you fell off your bike?
And do you still have your teeth?
Uh it was not fun. Um and no, my
actually most of my front teeth are not
real. Um they were all busted out during
the the bike accident. So it it hurt a
lot. How's that? Oh, we got a hand up.
Is it buried? Is the treasure buried? I
haven't specified if it is or not, but
as I mentioned before, um if you know
where to look, it wouldn't matter.
In the back,
is the bride live?
Well, that's kind of a uh the bride. I
will go so far as to say the bride is
not it's not a person that's alive right
now
is oh is what I'm referring to alive. Um
yeah I don't think I want to answer that
one. Sorry. Yeah. Uh yes.
Are the clues in the one treasure all in
one state? I um I haven't specified. And
I might I might consider
um being clearer on that in the future.
Yes.
Are there physical objects that you can
find along the way? Yeah. I think it's
fair to say there are. Yeah.
Yes.
Will I read the poem for you? Uh sure.
Yeah. Somebody have a candy? Oh, great.
Thank you.
Okay. Uh before I read this, I
appreciate everybody coming out. Thank
you guys for your your time and uh I
hope you're having fun with it and we'll
see how things go. If like I said, if
this thing hasn't been found here in,
you know, a couple of months or
something, I'll uh I'll try and throw
some more bones out there if necessary.
Uh
excuse me. Beyond the map's edge, can
you find what lives in time flowing
through each measured rhyme? Wisdom
waits in shadowed sight for those who
read these words just right. As hope
surges clear and bright, walk near
waters silent flight. Round the bend,
past the hole, I wait for you to cast
your pole. In Ursa East, his realm
awaits. His bride stands guard at
ancient gates. Her foot of three at
20°ree return her face to find the
place. Double arcs on granite bold where
secrets of the past still hold beyond
the reach of time's swift race. Wonder
guards this sacred space. Truth rests
not in clever minds, not in tangled
twisted fines. Like a river's steady
flow, what you seek you already know.
Anyway,
thank you. Thank you guys again for
attending. Appreciate it. Uh sorry for
the long lines and have a good night.
Thank you. Thank you. That was awesome.
You did great. Thank you. Thank you very
Thank you.
Okay, thank you everybody for coming
out. We want to thank Cynthia for her
amazing reach.

X Dark Matters Spaces interview — 4 Sep 2025
https://x.com/DarkMattersHost
Compiled from JIBLE 6.0 Q&A extracts (no YouTube caption file; the live was on X).
Always verify against the original Spaces recording if you have it.

Q1: Do you have any safety updates or suggestions heading into winter?
A: If there's snow, just don't even go. Don't put yourself at risk. That's a statement of safety more than anything. As we move into the winter months, I think some of the southern states actually become more palatable. The same warning goes to the southern states--if it's too hot out, just don't go. Always take somebody with you and make sure you have all the ten essentials.

Q2: You said that you wrote the poem specifically so that AI couldn't solve it, but humans can. In what ways is the poem written to be interpreted by humans and not AI? Like should we be looking for more metaphorically speaking instead of more literally?
A: It's a good question, and I think it's probably the right question to be asking. The way I see it is creating a puzzle for an intellect that dwarfs our own is a paradox. So whether or not I've succeeded in my task is TBD, but time will tell. At its core, I really wanted to design something that embraces the core of what it means to be human. There was an astronomical amount of thought that I put into that aspect of designing the treasure hunt. I don't think it's a good idea for me to divulge the tactics that I used because I think that that gives away too much. And in some ways can actually fuel the ability for AI to progress. So I'll have to punt on that.

Q3: How helpful do you think the book is for your hunt? Do you do need the poem and the book or just the poem?
A: You do not need the book to solve the poem. The book is there for someone who has read the poem and is having trouble for whatever reason. Having the surrounding context of the author can be helpful because I hid the treasure in a place that means something to me. The best way to have that context and understand what's important is to read what I've written. But by no means mandatory--the poem is on the website and can be solved in isolation.

Q4: Is there any chapter that has special meaning?
A: Every chapter has a purpose. I say chapter, [but] it's really more like short stories, kind of anecdotal experiences, but each story has a purpose. I can't think of one in particular that would have zero relevance or importance, but I can think of a few that are relatively more important than the others, but I'm a little reticent to call those out explicitly at this point. Q: More like the ones that are most meaningful to you. A: The Postal Pilgrimage is one of those chapters. Also Poseys on the Road is probably one that comes to mind. Not necessarily core hints per se, more just around a deeper message I was trying to convey no matter how well I did.

Q5: Would you be willing to eliminate a chapter in the book that does not have clues?
A: There are no hints in The Legal Lowdown. It's meant to convey pure legal language and to make sure people understand the rules.

Q6: What can you tell us about this gnarly Niven guy, and maybe why you're so fascinated with him.
A: Oh, you're talking about the rancher from the book. I'm trying to recall which story that's in. Is that the Posey Land, or...it'll come to me. Q: Yeah, he's mentioned a number of times. A: Yeah, he is an interesting character. That's about all I can say.

Q7: Your Quarterhorse that you hid behind was named Meghan. Was that Quarterhorse a Pinto?
A: No, it was not.

Q8: Is the location of the checkpoint somewhere you discovered while hunting for Fenn's treasure?
A: I think that's a little similar to a question that was asked earlier, but I do realize the distinction. It's in an area that is meaningful to me, but it's--I don't think I want to provide any clarity. It's a spot that I've known for quite some time.

Q9: Is the exact location or general area of the checkpoint or the treasure mentioned in the book?
A: There are some some useful chapters that might help you better understand some of the landscapes or general areas. I don't want to go too much into details.

Q10: Regarding the checkpoint, is the time of day important or critical or involved with the checkpoint?
A: For the time of day, I haven't specified either way that that may or may not be important.

Q11: Is the checkpoint the same location you figure out where the treasure is?
A: I'm not going to be providing more clarity on that one yet.

Q12: Can you share which line of the poem the checkpoint is located in?
A: I'm not going to not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q13: Is the checkpoint something that can be discovered by other means than boots on the ground?
A: I don't think I'll clarify to that degree, but I think I mentioned earlier, there is an absolute requirement to be boots on the ground at some point. You are not going to solve the entirety of the treasure hunt from home. But there is a large portion that you can, a significant portion that you can solve at home as well. So there are kind of two components to this, but the checkpoint itself, I haven't specified.

Q14: Were "some people" in your recent [social media] post about 200-footers actually searchers? [re:"some people" having been within 200 ft of the checkpoint"]
A: I haven't specified. I think my statement stands as is.

Q15: You've referred to what the cipher or technical clue refers to, and that's the container. Are you going to release any information as to what the technical clue or cipher is referring to or vice versa?
A: Yeah, just for clarity that the technical clue is not referring to the container. The cipher is. So they're kind of two distinct things. I think if it gets to a point, especially with the technical clue, I think it's just one of those things that is going to leak. Just the nature of it. It will probably spread fairly quickly. I'm very surprised that it's just been relegated to this one person so far, but they've been doing excellent job of keeping a lid on it. But I think it's only a matter of time and at that point it will be pretty obvious to everybody. So I probably won't even need to say anything, but I will when the time comes. And for the cipher, it's probably in the same boat. I think that one's not quite as definitive as the technical clue. But I think people will catch on to that fairly soon as well. And if it gets to a point where it becomes a bit more ubiquitous in knowledge, then I'll, might as well just say something as well. But now is not quite the right time for that.

Q16: What is something about the treasure that you haven't mentioned yet that you've thought maybe you should mention? (Paraphrased)
A: I haven't identified what the container is that the treasure is hidden inside. Mainly because I think it would give AI an edge as time goes on, and that's something I'm trying to avoid, at its core making this a human adventure, which is a bit paradoxical if you think about it. But at this point, I'm just not quite ready to do that. (Paraphrased)

Q17: Is there any facet of using X-ray vision to figure out where the treasure is?
A: There's actually been a number of people that I think has that line of thinking. The only thing that I'll stress here is that you don't need any specialized equipment to find the treasure.

Q18: Is there any tool or equipment needed to locate the treasure before being able to retrieve it?
A: I've mentioned you don't need any specialized equipment, and I guess that begs the question, what is specialized? I would consider X-ray vision goggles to be specialized equipment. But I wouldn't consider like hiking gear to be specialized equipment. Q: [Besides specialized equipment] do you need any tool or equipment to spot the treasure before retrieving it? A: I don't think I'm gonna specify any further, but nothing specialized.

Q19: [About "wasting" vacation days for botg]
A: I will say that going out and being in the areas that I've intended for you to be in are a vital part of the treasure hunt. You will NOT solve this in it's complete entirety from home. It's not possible. But there is a significant portion that can be solved at home that will give you a base level of confidence for you to go and check it out.

Q20: Are there any clues or hints in the poem in a physical location that you have to pay to enter?
A: Land designations and laws and anything that might impact free access is fluid. It's changing. So what I can say is that at the time that the treasure was hidden and at the time that the Netflix series was released, you did not necessarily have to pay. Again, it's a somewhat fluid situation, so I don't want to provide too much more clarity there, but I hope that helps. Q: When you said "necessarily" is that for the entirety of the poem or just parts? A: There are definitely parts of the poem where on the date of the Netflix launch, you did not have to pay.

Q21: Can you be more specific on the fee to enter? Because for example, a lot of people debate going into Yellowstone after hours as a loophole, which is still illegal. The free park days, the Montana conservation pass requires you to pay $5 just to hike or recreate on a lot of state public lands. So trying to get some more clarification on that.
A: I know that people are using the notion of having to pay as a way of reducing the search area. At this point, I'm not willing to provide any further clarity there, but I might consider that in the future.

Q22: Do you have any advice on what searchers should do differently?
A: I think that maybe some people might be focusing too much on, like for instance, oh my gosh, do I have to pay or not? Now, I understand if you're in a financial situation where that might hinder your ability to search certain areas. But I think most of the places in the U.S., the fees are low enough where it's not a complete barrier of entry. But I guess what I'm getting at is I think maybe there's an overemphasis on things like that as opposed to just focusing on solving the poem itself.

Q23: Is the exact location or general area of the checkpoint or the treasure mentioned in the book?
A: There are some some useful chapters that might help you better understand some of the landscapes or general areas. But I don't want to go too much into details.

Q24: As far as the elevation, you said it was below 11,000. Are you going to alter that any time soon?
A: If the treasure has not been found by the time that March of next year rolls around [talks about a potential book-signing event in Tucson], that's probably the venue where I would consider eliminating a state [or] restricting the elevations.

Q25: You've mentioned that solving all the clues in the poem would lead a searcher to an "X marks the spot" or an exact location. How large of an X would that be, like 5 foot by 5 foot, 50 foot by 50 foot or like a football field?
A: If you've solved everything that the poem has to offer, you will have an exact location. You won't, I mean, my gosh, football field, no. Even the size of the average American kitchen would be a little bit on the large side. No, you're looking at a targeted area.

Q26: You said that your map will help guide us. I was just wondering if you would specify which map would help more-- the map in the book or the one on the website, and if it helps guide us just with the land area or through the poem itself.
A: The map displayed on the website is higher resolution and quality and you're able to zoom in better, so it's probably just generally more useful. I did want to make sure that people that might not have internet access and might just have a physical copy of the book that they could have a similar experience. So that's why the map is in two places. I won't provide a heck of a lot of clarity here, but one of the ways that the map may be useful as you're reading the book and I mentioned a location, I tried to call out the vast majority if not all of those locations on the map itself so it's just kind of an easy way for you to get some context to understand what region we're talking about and the general surrounding area. But I think that's all the clarity I'm willing to provide right now.

Q27: The poem and the book are called Beyond the Map's Edge, and you have said that the treasure is hidden within the map you provided for us, not beyond the edge of it. Is there a secondary map you are referring to that the treasure is hidden beyond, or is "beyond the map's edge" more of a metaphor or state of mind or something in these forms?
A: I think all of those statements are correct. There is no secondary map. The treasure is hidden within the boundaries that are in the map that I published. You don't need a map that covers a larger space in order to find the treasure. And the treasure is definitely hidden within the bounds of that map.

Q28: On the map on the website, the locations that are specifically called out, do those have any significance on where the treasure could be located? Possibly a hint or clue to where the treasure is located or area?
A: I don't think I'll clarify, but what I will say is the map is, is generally useful.

Q29: Did someone figure out the two clues on the Netflix episode?
A: The two that I mentioned at the Dillon book signing Q&A that I felt were pretty obvious have since been discussed multiple times. So I think most people are generally aware of them at this point.

Q30: Three items that are in the Netflix series, as to what exactly they are--we have a copper canister that's in your pronghorn room behind your elbow. There's a debate on whether it's an urn, a humidor, or something different. There's also the sticks that are on the same desk in that room that look like bamboo that are metal-tipped that look to be either a collapsible fishing rod, walking stick, or a combination, or neither. And lastly, the small circular container that's on the large desk [near?] you when you page through Forrest Fenn's book. It contains sliced shells, and we were wondering if there's also bones, like a rattlesnake skull, in there or if those are all shells.
A: The first one, yes, it's a humidor. For the second one, I haven't specified exactly what those are. And for the third, the vast majority are shells. It's possible that there might be some small bone fragments in there, but if there are, it would be in the minority and that would not be intentional. Actually, that would be a little strange. It's meant to be shells.

Q31: Is there any clue in the Netflix documentary that tells you about any segment of the treasure trail. Not necessarily the complete treasure trail.
A: A segment. Interesting way to phrase that. I think there are some allusions. They may or may not be obtuse in nature. But yeah.

Q32: Is there any hint you can give us [as to whether] when you're setting the clock, was that actually intentional or not?
A: The clock times...I think at this point, it's pretty clear to people that the clock was very prominent and there were various times shown and they do have some meaning. To my uncertain knowledge, no one has figured out what they mean yet. But I like to think that people are getting close. That's about all I can say about it.

Q33: "Return her face to find the place"--is the place in her face or is it within her gaze? And if it is in her face, Justin, would you be willing to say where like eye or temple or something like that?
A: I'm not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q34: One of the lines that really stumps a lot of the searchers is the stanza that starts with "In ursa east his realm awaits." It's not capitalized, so we're thinking it's probably having to do some kind of ursa major or ursa minor. Could we use "ursa east" to be something like an anagram and maybe it's something like "use a star"?
A: What I can say is that the poem was written deliberately, so the choice of not capitalizing was intentional, but that's all the clarity I'm willing to provide at this point.

Q35: "Return her face to find the place"--is the place in her face or is it within her gaze? And if it is in her face, would you be willing to say where--like eye or temple or something like that?
A: I'm not going to provide clarity [on that].

Q36: So, "as hope surges" is our first actionable clue; does the first stanza lead us to the first actionable clue--solving the first stanza?
A: Virtually every line in the poem is helpful. So just because "as hope surges" is the first actionable clue, doesn't mean people should discount the earlier lines in the poem. They are helpful context.

Q37: "Return her face to find the place"--can you give us an idea, even if it's just a range, of how far "her face" is from "the place"?
A: Interesting question. It's probably not as far as many people might think.

Q38: In the Dillon Q&A, the bride question was really convoluted. Like, "is the bride alive?" You said, "yeah," then "is the bride live?" And it got really like discombobulated. Is there any way to clarify that?
A: The main intent that I wanted to clarify in that session...I don't want someone to get the impression that the bride is a person that is alive today that you can interact with. That is not the case. What I'm trying to prevent is...treasure hunters hassling people that are alive and well right now.

Q39: Is "double arcs" not something you'll see, but a directional bearing?
A: Interesting. I think I'm going to have to punt on that one. I don't want to give too much away, but good question.

Q40: Are there any anagrams in the poem?
A: I haven't specified.

Q41: Is "return her face" referring to the bride?
A: Oh, I'm somewhat tempted to answer this, but I think it would--it might give away too much. I think I have to punt on that one, but I appreciate the question nevertheless.

Q42: Exactly how many clues are in the poem?
A: I think I said there's at least 10.

Q43: You mentioned you'd like to think of the hunt rolling out in stages, but also that someone could mow through it in no time. What is there to further roll out? Is there anyone you know of that has mowed through it?
A: I see there being discrete stages of a treasure hunt where there's the planning, the execution of the hiding, the actual treasure hunt itself, and then the post-treasure hunt world. I see Forrest Fenn's treasure hunt as a key study we can improve upon. In terms of stages during the finding portion of the treasure hunt, I do think there are some stages even within that category. I won't elaborate too much on what that means. It's not requiring anything from me. It's just more the nature of how I put the treasure hunt together. As it stands so far, things are generally on the rails, minus a few acute, unfortunate cases. Nobody has really blasted through it. Hypothetically, that is possible. But there are certain aspects that to my uncertain knowledge have not been solved yet and will, I think, just take a bit of time and effort.

Q44: Will you eliminate a state?
A: Eventually I might eliminate a state. I don't see that being quite necessary yet. People are making good tangible progress across the board.

Q45: The first stanza and the second stanza, you said that they had been solved. Were you talking about the first stanza or were you talking about the second stanza, where "hopes surges clear and bright?"
A: Certainly the first stanza. Let me think for a moment here. I want to make sure I'm accurate. So the first stanza has by far and large, at least a large portion has been solved. The second stanza, at least half of it has been solved.

Q46: You've mentioned there's a lead searcher. How do you think this lead searcher is doing? Do you think this person is knocking on the door?
A: My memory might be a little fuzzy, but I don't recall ever using that terminology. I don't know that there's really a lead searcher per se. But I think that there's maybe a certain, categorically, a certain line of thinking where the people that are in that camp are probably making more tangible progress than others.

Q47: To your certain or uncertain knowledge, has anybody reached "double arcs on granite bold"?
A: To my uncertain knowledge, no, nobody has figured out what the--has figured out "double arcs on granite bold." And I might even go so far as to say that there might be a bit of a slight over-emphasis on that portion of the poem that a lot of people are doing today that might not be totally justified.

Q48: Can you explain what you mean by "uncertain knowledge"? Like, have you read everything you've ever been sent to inform your answers to questions?
A: So, generally, there are certain cases in which email is not guaranteed delivery. So, for instance, a message may have been lost or undeliverable for whatever reason. Maybe somebody mistyped the email address. There's probably a plethora of situations where a message may not have made it to me. But if the message did make it to me in my inbox, whether that's Messenger, Instagram, DM, email to support@treasure.quest or justin@treasure.quest, in person-- any of those forums, or even even snail mail, I have read it if I've received it. And all of the answers that I'm providing have that in mind.

Q49: Are there additional books as seen in the documentary or mentioned in Beyond the Maps Edge that will help us in our search?
A: Yes, there are. I'm not going to mention the specific titles, but yeah, I think that's fair to say.

Q50: Did you leave man-made items that searchers can collect?
A: I'm not willing to provide any further clarity on that at this point, but I'll consider [it] for the future.

Q51: Does 42 really mean anything? I see a lot of speculation online about the 42 written on your [tail] light on your truck in the series.
A: I don't really want to comment too much on that, but what I will say is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a fantastic book.

Q52: You mentioned that prior to the hunt going live, you had written out this guess as far as what type of person you think will find the treasure. Would you be willing to give us like one to three traits of that hypothetical person?
A: Somebody had asked what character in Lost, the TV series, would be best positioned to find the treasure. And I originally said Sayid, but I'm changing my mind. I actually think that Hurley might be better positioned. Q: [Later follow-up] Why the switch? A: Just around psychology of the person that I think would find the treasure. I just think that Hurley's psychology aligns more with who I would anticipate might find it.

Q53: You previously had mentioned that there was obviously an optimal solve and then most likely (unintelligible) or more difficult solves. Are you able to clarify how many potential solves are in existence as of today?
A: I know I could gather some statistics on that, but it's an overwhelming amount. And it's kind of--at its core, it starts with the way someone thinks or goes about thinking about the poem and the book and the series, and then from there it just kind of branches or spiders out into so many different combinations. But certainly, hundreds of thousands of potential solutions have been presented at this point.

Q54: Does the number 42 written on your tail light in the Netflix documentary have a connection to Lost?
A: No, the 42 does not have a connection to Lost.

Q55: In the book, there is only a couple places where it's named Big Hole Valley and Big Hole River where the H is capitalized. If the Hole from the poem is not one of those, wouldn't that be a red herring?
A: I have not placed any intentional red herrings. The thing about it is you create a poem and at its core, it is a form of obfuscation, right? I mean, otherwise I'd just say "go here and get the treasure." So, you know, there's clearly obfuscation going on throughout the poem, but, you know, in the book itself and the best of my abilities, I haven't built in any red herrings to throw people off deliberately.

Q56: Is there some kind of portion that that points towards something maybe biblical?
A: I'm not part of any formal religious organization, but I think it's fair to say that I am a spiritual person.

Q57: My question is regarding clues: between Netflix, the book, the poem and the website, what would be the best odds for a hunter to get the treasure, out of those four?
A: Certainly the poem is the most helpful. That is what it's designed for is to lead someone to the treasure. [Then] there's some supplementary information. If I had to order them in terms of most important to relatively least important, number one would certainly be the poem. Second would be the book in any of the formats. Third would be the series. There are some hints in the series I was able to sneak in and those hints are probably in two categories: one are hints that are a little bit more direct in helping someone understand how to find the treasure, and there are other hints in the series that are meant to help as you read the book. So, top of the line would be the poem followed by the book followed by the series.

Q58: Is the number 42 is related to any kind of Bible verse?
A: That's not something I want to provide clarity on at this point.

Q59: Is your logo inspired by the angzarr [symbol]?
A: Yeah, the angzarr symbol was--I chose and modified it intentionally. I can say that.

Q60: Do you have any advice on what searchers should do differently?
A: I think that maybe some people might be focusing too much on, like for instance, oh my gosh, do I have to pay or not? Now, I understand if you're in a financial situation where that might hinder your ability to search certain areas. But I think most of the places in the U.S., the fees are low enough where it's not a complete barrier of entry. But I guess what I'm getting at is I think maybe there's an overemphasis on things like that as opposed to just focusing on solving the poem itself.

Q61: One of the differences in the audio book says, "You taught me the difference between reality and fantasy isn't a wall, it's a map waiting to be drawn." To your knowledge, has anyone drawn that specific map?
A: Interesting question. I'm struggling with how to answer this the way I want to. Just give me one second here to formulate this. I guess the short answer would be no, I don't think anybody has done that.

Q62: Is the number 27 relevant to any aspect of the treasure hunt?
A: Maybe.

Q63: I've noticed a handful of Beatles connections--that's the band--and with you referencing that Lewis Carroll line and coupling that with knowing that Lewis Carroll heavily influenced the Beatles with songwriting, the album, art and themes, is there is there a Beatles connection to the hunt?
A: At this point, I'm not willing to shed any more light one way or the other, but I think those are interesting observations.

Q64: I came across something that's called a post sundial. Could I, in my search, use the sundial to possibly find the vicinity of where I should be looking?
A: That's not something I'm going to clarify.

Q65: Is the periodic table at play for anything. Not specifically [unintelligible] but should we be focused on that?
A: Is the periodic table at play. I'm fine with keeping that in play. I might provide more clarity in the future. But for now, I'm not going to not going to specify any further.

Q66: When did your treasure location start to hold significance: as a young person, during the chase, or during another era of your life?
A: I think if I nail that down, it might give away more than I'm willing to give away. But it's a place that is important to me, and it's a place that I've known about for quite some time.

Q67: When did your treasure location start to hold significance: as a young person, during the chase, or during another era of your life?
A: I think if I nail that down, it might give away more than I'm willing to give away. But it's a place that is important to me, and it's a place that I've known about for quite some time.

Q68: I have typed so many things in at the end of your website to your own and I'm curious if I'm just wasting my time?
A: You mean like extensions to the URL--I don't think it's worthwhile to just type in random things. That would be that would largely be a waste of time. But if there was--I'm not saying whether or not the website has any ability to actually-- you know, it's probably for the best that I just eliminate that. There's no need for you to type in special path parameters or query parameters. That's not going to get you anywhere.

Q69: [Are] there any secondary websites that contain clues that are attached to your website?
A: Are there any what attached to the website? Q: Are there any clues on a secondary website that are linked on your website? A: Secondary website...? Ema: So for example, there is big discussion about the Saddleback [leather briefcase] and stuff like that. You might have heard of that. Q: Yeah, I want to phrase this right...Anything that is linked through the website may ultimately contain something of importance. That being said, I just want to clarify, Saddleback is a family-owned small business. I don't want people calling them and trying to beg them for hints or anything like that. The Saddleback website itself does not contain any hints. I've been a long time supporter of Saddleback leather... I hope everybody supports them, but no, there's nothing specifically on their website, Saddleback, that is meant to be a clue.

Oh, come on.
>> Talk about changing the clock. When you
come to sit down, just walk up and look
at it and then just go.
>> I was just going to play a joke.
>> Yeah.
>> Jokes are good. Be funny.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Make sure you're on camera. That So,
you're not going to be on camera right
there. You got to make sure when you do
it,
>> you're going to be right. See, look.
There you go. That's
>> right there. No, you should do it when
you walk up and you sit down. Just kind
of grab the clock. and take the battery
out if you want to stay there.
>> Probably unc
to take the battery out so it will stay
on that time.
>> Of course. Yeah.
>> There you go.
>> All right. Don't scare me alive.
>> No. No.
That is
>> because I know Andy is going to try and
figure this out even though it's a
prank.
>> I know a lot of people are on this right
now.
>> It's going to be good. It's going to be
good.
>> Oh my god.
>> I love it.
>> I love it.
>> They will zoom. They'll figure they
will.
>> I think when you walk in the scene
though, you should go up. when you're
coming to sit down, you should go up and
look at it and then just
>> Yeah. Like you the way you got up in the
Netflix show and went to the clock.
Yeah. Just kind of go like, "No, I will
I'll leave it alone." And then sit down.
>> This is going to be hilarious.
>> All right.
>> I'm sorry. You might get more email
after this.
>> Blame you.
>> All right.
>> Here we go. I got this one on already.
It's rolling. Um, I'm about to start
here because I got to hit a couple
things and then I'm gonna move. You got
it. You got everything started.
>> Okay. So,
>> I am
>> go live.
>> And guys, if anybody pulls up the live
stream, please put it on mute. Do not
let it if I hear myself. I will go
crazy. I'll be like, "Oh my god, who's
playing the stream?"
>> Echo.
>> All right.
Oh,
>> now we got to do it so they we can you
know play the echo into the
>> Okay, we are live.
echoing
off.
Okay. Hello everybody coming in. Sorry.
I just want to check and make sure all
the settings are ready to go.
Welcome.
For those of you that know what to do,
share the live.
Thanks for coming in. For those of you
that don't know who I am, uh my name is
Sandal, just like a shoe. You can call
me Flip-flop, Nike, Reebok, Timberland,
pretty much anything shoe related. I
have been known to sorry answer to. And
uh today we have a little bit of this. I
mean, this is still coffee talk, you
know, where you would normally bring the
topics and I bring my face. However,
today we have a little bit more
something special planned. So, for those
of you that don't know, uh you're not
going to want to miss this. You're going
to want to stay and share the live out.
And for those of you that are here for
that reason, um thank you for coming.
So, before we introduce our guest, um I
want to have to give really quick a
special thanks to uh a few people in my
community. Buffy, you know who you are.
My moderators, uh Jason Rain, Country
Bougie, thank you for help. And um so
I'm going to go ahead without further
ado and tell you who's coming, but I'm
going to let him tell you who he is, but
then uh I'm really grateful that he's
here today. So uh Justin Posie, would
you like to join us?
Applause. Applause. Applause.
Hey, Justin.
>> Oh,
>> should I mess with this?
>> Oh, okay. Oh, all right. That's
interesting.
>> Have a seat. Justin, how are you?
>> I'm good. I'm good. How are you?
>> Uh, wonderful. It's really good to see
you. Uh, for everybody that's new here,
for those of you that do not know who
Justin is, I would like to have him kind
of give us an idea of why people are
buzzing about Justin Posie these days.
And like you know why you're why would I
invite you to my stream Justin?
>> That's a great question.
>> Uh well I I I hid a treasure. I guess
that's the the short of it.
>> That's the best part.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a Netflix
series that came out earlier this year
called Golden Greed, and I was one of
the participants in that series, and um
I hate to spoil the ending, but there
there is a treasure hidden out there
somewhere in the American West, and only
one person can find it, and I hope it's
you.
>> Yay.
>> So, I want to give a huge special thanks
for Justin for coming here today. Thank
you so much. We, myself, and my
community are thrilled to be talking to
you today. Um, I also would like to
thank special thanks to the Elorn staff.
Um, Ashley, Brandon, Sammy, the rest of
everybody. You guys know who you are.
Thank you so much for everything you did
to help. Debbie at the bookstore. Thank
you so much for being involved in this
even though you're not here today. Um,
and I want to let everybody know that we
do have three books, signed books to
give away from this event. In order to
be registered to win those books, there
is another event. If you've already
registered for this event, it is not
that. You have to register for this so
that your name can go in a randomizer.
What you're going to do is you're going
to click my face up at the top of the
screen way up there. Click my face and
then there's going to be a white box pop
up at the bottom of the screen and
you're going to see live event and it'll
say book giveaway. Just register for
that event. Make sure that you're
registered and then show up for the live
stream. Uh that add it to your calendar
and show up so you can see the names
that are called for these three winning
books that are right here. And we can
probably considering these right here.
I'm hoping we could get you to sign
these.
>> Can we get your signature on these? Is
that okay? It might already be there.
>> I was going to say for you. They're
probably
>> It is. They already signed, but I might
get them to put an extra little
something something, you know, like a
smiley face or something in there for
you. Thank you, Justin. for auction or
giving away the books. That's really
cool.
>> Absolutely. So, um if you guys want to
be a part of that, make sure you
register for that. Um also, we are going
to be opening up to some questions or
Justin's opening up to some questions.
So, feel free during the live chat to
put questions. Any questions that you've
been dying to know about this treasure
hunt, if you want to know, put start put
them in the chat. And then we do have
people checking through those and
writing down stuff that they think uh
Justin might be interested in listening
to. And uh we'll see we'll see if your
question makes it here after after I'm
done with my 42 questions.
[Laughter]
>> An oddly specific number.
>> I have not looked at any of these
questions for clarity.
>> I just really like the number 42. I just
Please don't kick me under the table for
some of these.
>> That's a solid number.
>> It's a solid number. All right. Um so
all right.
First of all, can you can we start by
talking about what is today like as far
as a special day and like purposes and
stuff is you know what I'm talking
about. Please.
>> Uh I I suspect you're referring to
National Public Land Day.
>> Yes. Yes, that's exactly what I'm
referring to.
>> So, it is one of the the few times where
you can actually get into all of the
national land for free. So, I encourage
everybody to get out there and explore
everything it has to offer. Just be
responsible.
>> Be responsible. I like it. I like it. I
like it. So why, speaking of public
lands, uh that puts me right in the
beginning of my questioning. Why are the
public lands so important to you and the
people of the United States?
>> Oh gosh. Uh
you know, for me, it's something that's
deeply personal. Um
you know, growing up and the the time
that I spent in the public lands
throughout the US was one of the best
experiences of my life. And I think
that's my biggest fear is um the newer
generations that grow up and don't have
that relationship or contact with the
national lands. And I think that without
having that deep connection, there's
always a chance that people get
disconnected. And that disconnection can
lead to unwarranted things like fear or
just not caring. And I think that's the
worst thing that could happen. Uh, so my
hope is that everybody gets out there
and and this is a a way to enable that.
>> That's amazing. I I personally didn't
know a lot about them and didn't spend a
lot of my childhood and the more I've
been out on my journey. Uh, for those of
you that don't know, I sold all my
belongings and moved into a Toyota Prius
three years ago to travel the United
States. So, the more I've gotten out
here and experienced them, I'm so
grateful for them. And I I care so much
about leave no trace ethics and letting
everybody know as much as I can about
these public lands and getting out here
and using them and preserving them and
taking care of them and all of us
partnering together. You get it?
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Um so what could be the
impact of losing them these and or
national parks?
>> Well, I I think it's a pretty profound
impact and it there's a lot of ways that
this can happen. It's not always direct.
For instance, people can purchase
private property that surround a public
space and in effect they landlock it so
that the public loses access. Uh but it
can be much more direct where the the
categorization or the classification of
the land can change in a way that is
destructive to uh every animal that
calls it home. So, uh, I think it's it's
serious business.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's something that, um, probably
not enough people know about. And it's
it's actually one of those things that's
very easy to lose, but very hard to gain
back. It's really rare for public land
to become private and then segue back to
public again. I don't I could probably
count on maybe two hands uh, the number
of time that's ever happened. But um
that's my big concern is that uh each
year the amount of effectively public
land reduces and if we're not careful
over time we we could lose that
>> and the lack of awareness is
>> that is central. Yes. Yes.
Um, so just about like when you and I
met the first night when I heard about
this treasure hunt, I got so excited
because it brought up childhood, you
know, Goonies and just all the stuff
everybody I'm sure so many people can
relate with that and how exciting you it
it came to you whenever it when you
heard about it. Um, and then I heard
about the show called Golden Greed, and
I
I I wanted really badly to align myself
with this and you because I could just
tell your purpose is just way beyond
greed. Um, so I kind of a little I I
didn't really like the title a whole
lot. Uh, do you is this um it's a topic
of conversation that we had the first
night we met. Uh, how do you feel about
that? Or have you had any your thought
processes on
>> Yeah, interesting. I mean, the title
specifically, I mean, it would not have
been my top choice. Uh, as I understand
it, it had a a different title kind of
leading up to launch and the title was
changed towards the end, I think, more
than anything to uh be kind of a shock
and awe or draw people in.
>> Yeah. Uh, and I understand the necessity
for that, especially with today's
algorithms, but uh, yeah, it wasn't my
wasn't my top choice.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like your
purpose about it is really Yeah. It's
not even all about the gold and the
greed. It's about getting people outside
and adventure.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it I suppose you do
need a way to draw people in.
>> For sure. For sure. For sure. Um one of
uh the many purposes of my journey again
is to I realized that
my comfort zone uh was in essence
killing me and uh I moved into a prius
to get out of it daily to get out of
that comfort zone and to get
uncomfortable and to live and to truly
live instead of just waiting to die. Um,
so I would like you to expound on the
meaning of Beyond the Map's Edge to you
because as I heard you mention something
about that.
>> Yeah. Um, I spent a lot of time thinking
about the title. Um, and it was kind of
a double-edged sword. I really liked the
title, but I didn't want people to read
into it to think that, oh, well, the
treasure must be beyond the map, the
edge of the map that I created in the
book. Uh, so I realize there there can
be some confusion there. But what I was
trying to convey is that everybody has a
comfort zone. And I think that
especially as you grow older, like that
comfort zone just gets reinforced and
reinforced and it just gets harder to
break out. It's all about that routine.
And so I wanted to encourage people to
get beyond the routine and try something
different. And that and that that edge
is different for each person. Uh, but
you know when you find it. Yes.
>> And if you just step across, I think um
>> most people maybe feel a little bit more
alive than they used to.
>> I love that. I love that.
Um, so on a serious note,
can we hear your pickle story?
>> No, I don't even know.
>> Oh, no. Which pickle story?
>> Which pickle story? He said. So, so, so
one of the interviews that you did, you
mentioned that there was a funny story
about a pickle that maybe you would
expound on later, and I want to hear
your pickle story.
>> There is a pickle story.
>> There's a pickle story.
>> Oh, boy.
>> Uh, sure. Um,
so for the sake of time and to not put
everybody totally to sleep, uh, I'll
I'll abbreviate this a little bit, but
uh, there was a time when I lived in
Washington and my brothers had all come
to visit and,
uh, I think it was around the time that
they legal they legalized
marijuana in the in the state of
Washington.
>> Okay.
>> And so
there was a discussion one evening. I
had never tried it in my life. And there
was a discussion one evening about maybe
>> Hold on. We may have to stop that
conversation because of AI. AI that was
just a joke. That was just a joke.
>> That was just a joke. Just kidding. AI.
Tik Tok. This We love Tik Tok shop.
Bound by the
>> We love Tik Tok Shop.
Um yeah, algorithms. We're just kidding.
That was a joke. There's nothing to uh
try that story another time because it
only goes off the rails from here.
>> Yeah, that's like Okay. Yeah, just
kidding. You did ask.
>> I did ask. I'm just kidding. And AI,
please forgive that. All right. So
speaking of AI, uh perfect segue with
the work that you do in cyber security
in the comments that you've made um
about the treasure hunting and the
future of AI um and how difficult it it
it currently is and how quickly it's
going to get more and more difficult. Um
as you know, a lot of us, myself
including have said that if we find your
treasure that we're going to rehide it.
So, our plan is to keep this hunt going.
And I'm not the only one. I know there's
quite a few other hunters out there. Ah,
thank you for those gifts. I just saw
it. Uh, there's quite a few other
hunters out there that that feel the
same way. And we would like to keep this
adventure going. So, in your
professional opinion,
do you think that's even possible
or going to be possible?
>> I don't know. Uh, AI is progressing
rapidly. It's actually exponential
growth which I think as as humans it's
actually kind of hard for us to
comprehend. I mean we didn't even have
exponential growth during the industrial
revolution. So it is unprecedented in
many forms. Um but I I mean I appreciate
the sentiment of people wanting to
rehide the treasure when it's found. I I
do want to be clear like I'm not going
to put any stipulations on people or
expectations like whoever finds it they
totally up to them. Uh but if if it so
happened that they were interested in
rehiding at least a portion of it and
they needed some assistance, then yeah,
I would help.
>> Oh, cuz that leads me to my next
question. When I find your treasure,
will you help me make a book and poem to
make it as AI proof as possible? So,
yeah, he says that. I love it. I love
it. I love it. Such a good sport. All
right. Um, so we're around, is it six
months into this? How many months into
this are we?
>> That's about right. Give or take.
>> Okay. Um, do you have a best and worst
experience so far during this six
months?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> The worst experience I can't
really talk about uh for a number of
reasons.
>> AI.
>> No, no, not AI. uh it's more just around
personal privacy and uh promises that
have been made. But um yeah, on the on
the positive front,
>> it's the simple things like I'll come
here to the lodge and somebody will come
in with their kids. Uh there was a woman
in here a few weeks ago and she and her
family had never been camping before,
like ever. and
>> like ever
>> uh you know very little time outside the
city and this treasure hunt was the
catalyst that they needed to actually go
out and camp and have an adventure as a
family and that
>> wow
>> that alone is worth it to me.
>> That's like that's literally
lifechanging for people. That's great.
That's really great.
>> Um and that's I like that you didn't
give us the worst anyway because I don't
want to hear that stuff.
So let me get this straight real quick
because I like to talk about food.
>> Um who doesn't?
So, you're disgusted by prawn.
>> But you literally compete in cooking mud
prawn.
>> I want to be clear like
>> I need to understand how how that works.
>> There is a distinctive difference.
>> Not that I mean they're so close.
They're so close.
>> Have you smelled each of them
independently?
>> Um I can't say that I've gotten too much
into the mud prawn. I like the regular,
you know, your the ones that scare you
and stuff.
craads or mud prawns. They're like they
smell kind of like earthy. Uh and they
have a completely different smell than a
shrimp. A shrimp is just
>> more seafoody.
>> Yeah. It's that I can't even
>> Yeah, I was going to say, are you really
going to go there right now? I can see
it on your face.
Uh, and the funny thing is is whenever I
was uh boots on the ground actually
listening to your book, I was crossing
Crawfish Creek when you were telling the
story about um the crawads and like
doing your things and I thought that was
kind of neat, right?
>> Um, so would you ever consider hiding
another treasure?
>> Um,
possibly. Kind of depends on how this
one goes. you know, it's
>> 18 years later.
>> I mean, I, you know, I think it's I just
see it as a an iterative process and I'm
sure I've done a lot of things wrong
that I may or may not know about yet.
And as time goes on, they uh I'm sure
like in retrospect, we can look at this
and say, "Oh man, like Justin screwed up
this, this, and that." Like it could be
better.
>> All the things. No,
>> no, but that's good, right? like I I'd
appreciate the case study and the
opportunity to make it better in the
future and if it's not me then great
>> somebody.
>> So that's a possibility that you Yeah.
Okay.
>> Stranger things have happened.
>> Okay.
>> Um does and this kind of goes back to
something we already talked about but
does any part of you hope that whoever
finds it does does rehide it or hide
another treasure or keeps it going?
Yeah, I think that's
I don't really want to set any
expectations on whoever finds it. Like
it's completely up to them how they want
to chart a path forward. And you know,
hiding a treasure is not for the faint
of heart. Uh I mean, I went into this
eyes wide open. You know, there there
are a lot of perils and risks involved.
And I think I mean I would be much more
reticent to do this especially if I had
kids um because I'm aware of the the
negative aspects that tend to crop up
especially over time.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so to each his own I guess.
>> Okay.
>> Is there another type of treasure aside
from the physical treasure um that you
hope people discover with this?
>> Yes. Uh and I think that's a little bit
different for everybody. uh this
treasure hunt was really created I mean
the treasure is a means to an end and I
think what
or at least what I hope and the messages
that I've received is that a lot of
people are realizing uh something
profound about themselves along the
journey and I think that's infinitely
more important than the gold itself
>> uh but sometimes it just takes a little
bit of a incentive to get people off the
couch and out and about.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So, um,
what would you like the biggest takeaway
from the whole treasure hunting
experience to be for people whether they
find the treasure or not?
[Music]
I think I mean I I created the treasure
hunt for a few different reasons, but
probably the biggest takeaway is
uh that we should, you know, machines
these days. We've created these machines
that feed us our own anger.
And why? I mean, it's it's it's like
hate clicks louder than love.
And
I think the greatest trick the algorithm
ever played on us is convincing us that
understanding each other is
um
is is the enemy of being right.
And so I I don't think the revolution is
choosing sides. I think it's remembering
that there are no sides at all and that
we should all
embrace our our similarities,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Sorry songs, right? Um, so yeah, that's
great. That's great. So, uh, again about
food. I like food. I mentioned I
mentioned I like food. Um, you said that
okra is your favorite food and I'm from
South Carolina. So, I'm just very
curious if you're familiar that there's
a place in South Carolina, Irmo, South
Carolina, that has an okra strut. Have
you ever been
>> Okra strut?
>> Yeah, it's a whole festival about okra.
>> It's a whole festival.
>> How did I not know about this?
>> Yeah, you should go. I've never been. I
mean, I grew up there, but I feel I've
never been, but it's I'm sure it's
great.
>> I'm going to bump this up my list
immediately.
>> That's great. That's great. We should We
should Maybe there's a clue at the
orchestra this year in Irmo, South
Carolina. Um um so I was going to ask
you if you would ever consider going to
to South Carolina to go to the ochre.
Absolutely. That's kind of cool, right?
Have you ever had pickled okra?
>> Yes. I love it.
>> That's an extra question. I wasn't 42.
Um pickled okra is so great. So great.
Put it in a martini. What? All right.
Have you um have you ever had an
opportunity to use your grandma's fancy
handmade sweater again?
>> Huh?
Uh, I still have that sweater.
>> That was the next question. Do you still
have it? Yes. Yes. Sorry. I want to see
it.
>> Yeah. I I'm trying to recall where it's
at. I know I have it somewhere. Um, but
I don't know. It feels like wearing it
again would like
>> Is it in a 60 lb box? I'm sorry.
>> Sorry. Sorry.
>> Could you Could you Can I help you go
retrieve it?
>> It is in a box.
Uh,
>> sorry.
>> No, you're totally I mean, you know, I
just I think like I don't know. I feel I
feel like by wearing it again, it would
kind of
>> uh strip the mystique from it, you know,
or something. I'm strange about those
things.
>> That's cool. That's cool. Yeah. And that
was Do you still have it? Awesome. So,
all right. Now, this is a very serious
question, Justin, and I need you to take
some thought before you answer.
>> Oh, boy.
>> Oh, boy.
Can I borrow?
And will you teach me how to use
>> your micro expression software?
>> I need you to think real hard on this,
Justin.
I I love to learn, you know. I got a
great brain. I'm a good student.
>> I believe you. I I Yeah. Wow.
You know,
>> I think like the thing about it is that
software is probably pretty antiquated
compared to what you can do nowadays.
>> We could build more.
>> We could build more.
>> Well, we could absolutely do. There's
actually some really cool open source
projects that kind of revolve around
that. Uh, and I have considered open
sourcing what I had before, but it just
it feels kind of lame now compared to
what exists these days. It felt really
cutting edge at the time, but
>> it was
>> uh I'm sure we could work something out.
Yeah.
>> What was that? I feel special. All
right. Thank you. Um, do you prefer
protractors or compasses?
>> Well, that would depend on the task at
hand.
>> This was a this was a volunteered
question from someone else.
>> I could tell. Yeah.
>> So, so I just wanted to put that in
there for you. See if maybe you had a
favorite. Maybe you got a favorite out
of the two. I mean, you know, if I'm
drafting
>> Sam's the Sam's the task.
>> Just just
sand.
>> No, I'm just I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
>> No, I mean, if I was drafting something
at a at a desk, I think a projector
would largely be preferred, but if I'm
out and about in the woods or
wilderness, then a compass. How's that?
>> Okay, I'll just leave it there. Um,
so some of these questions have been
have come from other people. Um,
would watching either The Goonies
>> or A River Runs Through It be useful in
relation to The Hunt? And have you seen
these movies?
>> I have seen the movies. Um, would they
be helpful in relation to the hunt?
Uh,
I can hear a pin drop.
Um,
I mean, I don't know what the term would
be. If you're trying to like pregame it
before an adventure and you want you
want some excitement, like The Goonies
is a strong pick. You know, it's funny.
I like I watched The Goonies years after
I had originally seen it as a kid and I
I w re-watched it. I'm like, gosh, this
is a lot of kids just screaming,
>> but we relate to that as kids,
>> right?
>> You know,
>> back in the day, like
>> treasure.
>> It was one of the greatest movies ever
made.
>> Yes.
>> Uh, so I think it's just kind of a
matter of perspective, but yeah, I think
I I don't know if they're like hardcore
helpful, but uh I
>> Baby Ruth. Baby Ruth,
>> it's a clue.
>> Confirm or deny.
>> Confirm or deny. I love it. Uh, real
quick, since we're into some treasure
questions, do not forget Chad. You guys,
uh, feel free to flood the chat with any
questions that you have for Justin. Any
things that you've been wanting to get
him to answer. We do have someone
filtering through those, looking at
questions, writing them down for him.
Also, while you're at it, do me a favor.
Click my face up in the top top left of
the screen. I have it mirrored so they
can read the stuff on the screen. Where?
Up there. Thank you. Above his head. Uh,
my face is up there. If you could click
that. Uh, and then there's gonna be a
white box at the bottom of the screen
and it'll just gonna say live event down
there. Click that. OMG. Click that at
the bottom of the screen. It'll say live
event for uh I think it's October the
2nd and it says book giveaway. Register
for that event. That is how that is the
roster for the the names that will be
randomly drawn for these three signed
books uh from Mr. Posie himself. So, how
far is the treasure from the bride?
Just jump right into that one.
>> Jump right jump right in there like
swimwear.
>> Let's see. How far how far is the
treasure from the bride?
>> That was the question.
>> Well, that's all a matter of
perspective, I guess.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah,
>> that's the answer.
>> That's your final answer. All right.
Okay. So, uh, can a Prius, my Prius, uh,
get within a mile of the treasure?
Can a Prius? I mean, boy.
[Music]
>> This is a really good question.
>> It is.
>> I live in a priestation shop
in case
>> you all forgot. Kind of tricky. Um,
>> I think I'm going to punt on that
question, but not for maybe the reason
people think. Yeah.
>> Okay. All right. All right. So, can
someone who flies to search for the
treasure with just what they're allowed
to carry in a carry-on,
would they be able to find it? Like, do
they
need anything larger?
>> Oh, I see. Um
it's it's possible to figure out where
it's at. Yeah.
>> Okay.
Um
again, another serious question.
Do you hope to live to be a centinarian
or would you prefer to live out your
days as a centurion?
a a Roman commander with a hundred
individuals at your command. Wow, that's
a tough choice.
>> Or centaur, half man, half horse or
whatever.
>> Wait, wait. Now I got three.
>> However it sounds to you,
>> or a centinarian,
>> which is which is
>> you tell me.
>> You tell me. Do you know someone who
lives to be 100? Would you like to live
to be 100, Justin? So, for people that
don't know,
>> you're gonna give them backtory.
>> Be careful.
>> This could bite you.
>> I'm gonna take my risk. Take a risk.
>> Uh
boy, this is probably a few weeks ago.
It was actually right here at the Elorn
Lodge. Um Santa was having a
conversation and she kept talking about
the centurion or centuran and
I, you know, I'm I'm listening intently.
I'm trying to understand like why are we
talking about these these Romans? Uh,
and at some point I think I realized
maybe it was centinarians
>> and he says to me I just he's just for
clarification. Are we are we speaking
about centinarians or centaurans and I
oh wow and I can't tell you how many
times in my live stream I've talked
about centinarians for I'll explain
later but anyways yeah thanks Justin.
Thanks Justin.
>> We won't talk about what that moment is
for you right now. Maybe later.
>> Um,
>> I deserve it at this point.
>> You deserve it at this point. Do Do you
want me to go public with that story?
>> I, you know, I I It's okay.
>> Okay, we're doing it. We're doing it.
We're doing it. We're just going to raw
dog it. Uh, so so so
that that moment right there, that
centinary moment, that is my equivalent
to Justin's raw dog moment. So, let me
explain what this means. The first
night, the first night that we were all
having conversations,
um,
>> no,
>> Justin
used the term raw dog somehow. I don't
know exactly how it came up in
conversation, uh, but he said it and it
was clear to me that I don't think that
he realized exactly where this term
might have started.
So, so, so I'm like, Justin, do you know
what that word means? And he's he's he
says it's to what does it mean, Justin?
>> Well, I I I thought it meant to uh
concentrate very hard for an extended
period of time.
>> So, this is this is what Justin thought
that it meant. So, so when he said that,
so I'm like, "Oh my god, Justin's over
here in Silicone Valley using the term
raw dog." And then his face just
dropped. He was mortified. Like, I
thought he I I can't This is the
funniest moment of my entire life. I'm
standing there about to cry for him his
face and he's like I I did use it there.
He said he said he tell him what you
said in the meeting, Justin.
>> So yeah, I I was over there for some
advisory meetings and VC meetings and
you know, you're trying to break the
ice, you know, it's like trying to get
to know everybody and and they were
talking about the Uber drive over and I
said, "Well, yeah. I mentioned that I
had raw dogged it the whole way over and
over
meaning that I was concentrating very
hard in preparation for the meeting. Uh
I don't think it came out that way.
>> Yeah. I mean the meeting went downhill
from there.
>> And he had no idea why until like a
couple weeks ago.
>> Broke the ice.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So good.
>> Ice was broken ceremoniously. My
centurion moment is his raw dog. So
these are
>> I think I got the short end of the stick
>> that you know you know I pretty funny.
Yours is funnier. All right. So um why
won't you say whether or not the
treasure is buried?
>> Well, that's an abrupt shift.
>> Why won't I? Well, uh, one of the
reasons is because I think depending on
how long this lasts, there's a chance
that AI could have an advantage if it
understood whether or not it was buried.
>> I don't really want to expound on that
too much, but that's that's
>> that makes a lot of sense. Okay.
>> Is the checkpoint a fence post?
>> I cannot confirm or deny. Oh,
ding ding ding ding ding. I need a bell.
Ding ding ding ding. All right. Um, so,
oh, this is Brandon, I told you I
wouldn't be able to read my writing at
some point. You you um you pre Oh,
mentioned that mentioned. I was going to
say, can you help me out over here? You
previously mentioned I'm like a PhD. You
previously mentioned in an interview
that you would consider telling us at a
later date whether the checkpoint is
boots on the ground or if you could find
it at home. Have you decided to answer
that yet?
>> Well, maybe this isn't quite the answer
people are looking for, but um I think
that you know I think what I found is
the more I talk I think maybe the more
it confuses people. I'm just like
nervous about trying to clarify further
because I feel like I'm only going to
muddy the water more. But at the risk of
doing that, uh I will say I think that
there's a perceived um conflict uh
between when I said, "Oh, if you solve
the poem in its entirety, it'll take you
to an exact spot for retrieval versus
there is a boots on the ground component
to this treasure hunt." So, you are not
going to find where the treasure is at
by just
uh doing everything from home. You will
have to be boots on the ground for a
portion of it. Um but if you solve
everything the poem has to offer you, it
will take you to a pretty exact spot.
>> I don't know if that answers your
question, but
>> that's good.
>> That's what I have to offer.
>> That's good. Have you answered the
question whether or not there are more
than nine clues or exactly how many
there are?
>> Uh I think I said there's at least 10.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. At least 10. um
>> in the poem.
>> In the poem.
>> Okay. You mentioned in your Dylan Q&A
that no one had figured out the cipher
yet. Is that still the case
>> that you know of?
>> As far as I know, no one has figured out
the cipher yet. And I think it's at a
point where I'm actually a little
surprised. Um I think it's at a point
where I might start kind of providing a
little bit of clarity there to nudge
people toward it. And you know that
>> you can do that now.
Let's go.
>> I I would actually like to I think it'll
take a little preparation though uh to
to phrase it precisely how I want. So
>> ciphering
>> cipher the uh yeah so the cipher um more
than anything is is is a nod to what the
the container is.
>> Yes. Um, so you know, I don't want
people to get the impression that, oh my
gosh, I need to know advanced
cryptography or something in order to
figure all this out. It was just
something I couldn't resist putting in.
Um,
but it's something that uh and and the
this this particular cipher is very
approachable. It's not it's nothing
advanced. You know, you don't need a
math degree to figure this out or
anything like that. But it was just kind
of a fun, playful thing that I put in um
more than anything to just give a nod to
the container and make it a little bit
more fun.
>> Well, on the math degree, basically, you
said that there was a more technical
clue that is in there that you mentioned
that there was one person in the world
that you thought had solved it. Is that
clue more public now or is it still we
still looking at that one person?
>> Uh, as far as I know, it's still that
one person uh overseas, not in the
United States. And I might have
mistakenly said a he before it is
actually a she.
>> Sweet. Okay.
>> Um and
you know, arguably the technical clue
could actually require a little bit of
of technical expertise, but um it's not
like a super critical clue. I mean,
you're going to absolutely find the
treasure uh without solving that. But um
I think just over time it'll naturally
be something that that comes out. It's
just uh nobody I don't think anybody
else has figured it out quite yet.
>> Yeah. Because you said also there's kind
of multiple solves too, right? Like
multiple angles you could kind of solve
the whole thing, right?
>> Yeah. Like Yeah. So, you know, I I felt
like it's kind of like safeguards, you
know, in case certain aspects of the
treasure hunt don't the mechanics don't
work for whatever reason, then there are
other ways to approach it so that you
you end up finding it either way.
>> Okay. Okay. Um, this is another one I
need you to think about. Okay.
Serious thought goes into this. Justin,
is there any form of bribery that would
work to get
to get you to tell us what the treasure
container is or another clue about what
it is today? Any form of bribery?
Elicorn mug. I mean, I got you. I got
you.
>> Oh, yippy kay. Thank you. That put it on
both of us. Appreciate that. Sorry. It
was a c a c cowboy hat and mustaches. We
were we were cowing this to the table
for a second. I appreciate that.
>> I was supposed to think long and hard
about this.
>> Yeah. Uh bribery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. What kind of bribery?
>> Uh
no.
>> You tried though.
>> I thought you were going to be like I
mean you gotund you know something. And
I thought you were going to you were
thinking of what to bribe you with, not
like yes or no. Gosh.
>> Yeah, I worked up. So, so I actually
posted at some point like the the
statistics of the treasure hunt that
included the number of bribery attempts,
>> uh, which have grown substantially since
then. I should probably put another post
with the updated statistics, but yeah,
you name it, I've probably heard it at
this point.
>> Okay. Well, then how about this? Can I
put this question again at the end of
today's live and see if you feel
indifferently about me after all this is
over?
>> I don't know if I should be concerned.
>> I think that I think I think we're going
to stick it at the back. We're we're
just going to we're going to put that
right.
>> That's going to make it 43 question.
>> Well, we'll just It is what repeats
don't count. Um so, in the Dylan Q&A,
you mentioned there were two really
obvious hints in the Netflix series that
no one's brought up yet. Um is that
still the case?
Nope. People have figured that out.
>> Okay. And I was going to say, is the
piggy
will you give us this cl will you say
what they were or no?
>> Um or anything about them or a hint to
the second clue is what I was going to
ask because you gave a hint to the first
clue in the Dylan Q&A and I was going to
ask for
>> I mean I don't want to put like too fine
a point on it like you know anybody who
peruses the various forums like it's
kind of all over the place at this
point. Okay.
>> Yeah. Have you in um
have you in any interview that you've
done mentioned any section of the map
that you show on the front of your
website
to be free from the search? So not like
a specific state or like the the
southwest or the like northwest or any
have you have you said anything out of
that map that pops up on your website?
Have you said any of that is free from
the search? You mean like eliminated?
Correct. I see.
>> Sorry for the
>> No, no. I makes sense. I um I haven't
eliminated anything at this point. I
think last time I had somebody asked me
this. Um probably still consistent
there. And that is there's a potential
book event in March in Tucson called the
Tucson Festival of Books.
>> March 3rd. My birthday. I'm sorry.
>> You're 11 days off.
>> Ah, okay.
>> Or maybe 10 days off.
>> Getting excited.
>> 13th or 14th. Yeah.
>> Okay, cool. So March in Tucson. Yeah, if
if that works out, I mean, it's very
competitive. I don't anticipate
actually, you know, uh getting an
invite, but if it does work out, um I
think that's probably the time where I
might start eliminating a little bit of
the or maybe a significant portion of
the search area. I'm excited.
>> Cool. Cool. Um so, you've mentioned that
one of the songs may be a clue. Is that
a song from the Netflix show or a song
from the audio book?
Uh, I don't think I ever specified.
>> Right. I'm trying to get you to
>> That's that's the whole point in this
questioning, Justin.
>> Um, there there is a
an extremely definitive hint in one of
the songs. Um,
I'll I'll leave it at that.
>> Okay.
Is there any tool or equipment needed to
locate the treasure before being able to
retrieve it?
>> Um, that one's mine.
>> That felt like a sandal.
>> That felt like a sandal question.
>> You know, I I've mentioned that you
don't need any specialized equipment,
and I guess that begs the question like
what is specialized? Um, you know, I
would consider a,
you know, X-ray vision goggles to be
specialized equipment. Um,
but, you know, I wouldn't consider like
hiking gear, you know, to be specialized
equipment necessarily.
>> What would be a tool or equipment
though? Not specialized equipment. But
do you need any tool or equipment to
spot the treasure before
>> before uh retrieving it? Um,
I don't think I've I don't I don't think
I'm gonna specify any further, but
nothing nothing specialized.
>> Cool.
>> Do you recall seeing any specific
animals while hiding your treasure?
>> I did see some animals. Yeah.
Um,
what animals did I see? See, that's
funny. Like if I if I said the animal
that I saw,
>> that's why I asked.
>> It could have a pretty profound impact
on the search area.
>> That's why I asked.
>> So, I will have to decline.
>> But I was it was an animal I was shocked
to see. And um it's the only time I've
seen that animal in my life like in
nature.
>> All right. Um, don't kick me under the
table for this one.
[Laughter]
Are you a Freemason?
Uh, I was um
uh there's something called a demit
process where you you step away and
there were a number of personal reasons
why I chose to do that. Um, but yeah, I
I um I got my 32nd degree. I think it
was three or four days after my 18th
birthday.
>> Okay.
>> Could any of that knowledge possibly
factor into your treasure hiding andor
slash poem uh or book of the hunt? Any
of it? you know, there's there's no
knowledge that uh
that would be privileged knowledge, put
it that way. I mean, the only knowledge
that you'll need are things that you can
do through basic web searches and just
studying the poem. That's it.
>> Good answer. Good answer. You didn't
kick me. Thanks.
>> I was nervous for that one. I was like,
I don't know. I don't know if he's gonna
like that one. Um, so there was a re a
recent local uh search and search and
rescue effort in this area. Uh, do you
know if that was treasure hunt related?
>> Uh, no it was not. Um, it was actually,
as I understand it, a woman who was
intimately familiar with the area. She
had hiked uh up in this region many
times before and uh she went hiking with
her family and I think there was some
sleet or maybe some hail that came in
and the rest of the family turned back
but she wanted to keep going. And I
think she got to the summit of one of
the the uh the mountains and then when
she went to descend, she got turned
around and went down a different way.
>> Oh goodness.
>> And so she ended up uh yeah, she ended
up spending the night I think they found
her the next morning. But uh no, not not
treasure related.
>> Okay. Okay. Um, in your opinion,
do you think there's a bunch of people
or any people or a lot of people or a
portion of people or a small portion,
large portion, whatever portion of
people that may be looking a little too
deep? Like, is is it is it simpler than
people might think at times?
>> I mean, that's that's the tricky part
with any obfiscated
text, for instance, like how far is too
far, you know? It's sort of like you're
out hiking and it's like, well, what's
around the next bend, right? Like how
far is too far to go? Um, and I think
that's that that line is different for
everybody. So, I'm I'm I'm I'm hesitant
to say that, you know, people are taking
it to too much of an extreme. I don't
think that's the case, but
>> yeah, I mean, it's probably safe to say
that that people in in certain areas are
diving in much deeper than they need to.
Okay. Um, but I guess it's all a matter
of perspective, you know.
>> So, I have a final question for you and
then there's we're going to take some um
some of the chat questions and then
there's something else after that, the
surprise. But, um, my final question,
Justin, I've got to ask you, do you
really think that someone can find your
treasure?
>> Absolutely. I mean,
you know that I I I thought a lot about
that during Forest Fence treasure hunt
and I actually asked Forest the same
question.
>> Come on, Justin.
>> Obviously, that's why my final question.
That's what you asked Forest.
>> It's It's the It's a good question to
ask because, you know, I don't think
anybody wants to be involved in a
trigger hunt where you can't find what
you're looking for. That's just cruel.
Um, but this is is approachable to the
best of my abilities. Uh, you don't need
an advanced degree to figure this out
and uh it's absolutely attainable. And I
think I've said it before, I'm a little
surprised that it hasn't been found
quite yet. Um, but we'll let it play
out. I mean, I think people are making
tangible progress. It's not like,
>> you know, the
globe is stalled out or anything like
that.
>> Tangible progress. You guys are doing
good.
No, it's good. Uh, but yeah, it's
absolutely attainable and it's just a a
matter of time.
>> Okay, sweet. Awesome. It's good to hear.
>> Um, so these are some of the questions
that have come through the chat. So, um,
if you guys have questions, put them on
there right now. If there's anything
that you don't that you know, just just
just keep rolling the chat with
questions in case she sees anything
that's really important while I'm asking
these, you can answer if you want. It's
up to you. This is coming from there.
also up to you if you want to open it up
for any of the live audience as far as
answering questions. Yeah.
>> Um, so the last interview you promised
to update the Arada
page with the audiobook errors. Could
you do that again?
>> Yes. Thank you for the reminder. I'm
actually going to make a note for myself
because I forget these things.
>> Thank you. You're on it. Chad
>> audio.
>> Appreciate you guys. Are you have Are we
tapping the screen? Is everybody tapping
the screen for those of you that don't
know? Real quick while he's writing that
down. If you want to register to win one
of these signed by Justin books and
smileyfaced um you're click the uh my
face up there. It's above his head. My
face is up there. Click my face. Then
you're going to see a white box at the
bottom of the screen. At the bottom of
the screen, you're going to see it says
live event. Click that. It's October the
2nd will be the announcement made for
the three winners of these books. If
you're not registered in there, you're
not in to win. You're not in to win it,
homie. Your name's not Bennett. You know
what I mean? You know what I mean? All
right, back at it. All right, you with
me? We're here.
>> I think I'm with you.
>> Benn it. Are you in it? All right. Do
any of the clues in the poem lead to
locations that require a payment to
enter?
>> Yeah, I think that question's been asked
a number of times. I I don't I think
I've provided all the clarity I want
there. Uh so I think we're good. Okay,
for now.
>> Is the poem an instruction manual, a
map, or both?
That's interesting.
>> I mean, yeah, it's kind of an interest.
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I
mean, in a way, a map is can be an
instruction manual. So, I don't I don't
>> I guess Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. The answer is yeah. Um, so, uh,
that's the land. So, I know people ask a
lot about the status of the land and
you've constantly said it hasn't changed
since you know of. It still hasn't
changed, right? Or has the status of the
land changed? Not as far as I know.
>> Okay. Um,
are there any conservation efforts in
this hunt or treasure?
>> Um, I mean, I think nature conservation
is a theme of the treasure hunt. Uh, and
it's something that I think is important
and I hope other people do too. But, uh,
that's the extent of it.
>> I've heard you ask been asked this
before, but uh, will you write another
book? I think people like your book a
lot more. You think it's good for like
kindling and firewood and stuff? I've
heard you say this so many times. People
really like your book. Your stories are
freaking great.
>> Put put numbers all over the screen if
you like his book. 33s are great.
>> Thank you. Right. Uh I think you should
write a book. I I soon as I find that
treasure, homie, I gotta
>> I gotta
>> I you know I I think everybody has if
they sit down and think about it um life
experiences that are worth telling.
>> Uh so you know I would encourage
everybody out there to
>> you know take a stab at it. It it
doesn't need to be Shakespeare, right? I
mean clearly
>> Honestly though, Justin, your book
really inspired me even more to write my
book because of the way you did the
stories. It just makes it a lot easier
because I'm sitting here thinking, how
do you, you know, how do you tell your
life story in a book? You know, how do
you do that? It's a lot. So, to do the
stories like that is great. It's great.
>> Yeah. I I appreciate that.
>> I really love your book. Really love it.
>> I don't know. I I might I mean, there's
actually been a lot of people that have
asked that um you know, about writing
another book. And,
you know, it's kind of a double-edged
sword. Like, I I don't want people
getting an impression that like, oh
great, now we got to buy another book to
find this treasure. You know, like uh
>> 14 books later, 17 years, we still have
not found the Posie Treasure.
>> So, you know, maybe after it's found, uh
that you know, it's totally unrelated to
the treasure hunt. Uh I'm I might
consider something, but it's it's not
really at the top of my list right now.
>> All right. All right. Um has the bride
ever been alive?
>> You don't have to answer if you don't
want. That's just one that came in the
chat.
>> Yeah. Um,
I guess it kind of depends on
how you define the term alive.
>> Yeah, that's all I'll say about that.
>> Okay, it's a good that's a good answer.
>> That's exciting.
>> That's a good answer. Um,
>> so um,
>> are we talking backwards now?
How many clock times are in the Netflix
series? Seven or eight?
>> Oh, wow. That's a really good question.
And this is actually why I think some
clarity that I mentioned earlier might
be important. Um,
the lower the number the better.
We'll say that
>> the lower the number the better. That
was kind of cryptic. It was really
obvious.
>> I tried
>> something. That was something. Um, how
uh how did you formulate your chapter
titles?
>> Uh, you people will laugh, but I I'm a
big Seinfeld fan. And so when I had
first thought about the chapter titles,
I I wanted them to have kind of a
Seinfeld feel to them.
Yeah, at some point I kind of shied away
from that a little bit, but still maybe
reminiscent of of that that
>> why I didn't get it because I don't like
Seinfeld.
>> Well, see, I I knew I didn't like you.
>> Oh my goodness. That was that was a
clue.
>> See See what I did there? See what I did
there? Play with me and tell me there's
no red earrings and stuff. All right. So
So So Justin. Okay. So, I've heard you
mention a few times. Um,
wait, wait.
Audience questions. About to cut y'all
out of this. I act like y'all weren't
even here. Like, I couldn't even see
y'all. So, So, is there anybody here
that's got questions in the live
audience that or did you want to open
that up for some? Okay. Any questions?
We'll take a few.
>> Yeah, I have three.
>> Okay.
>> She's like, I'll take all three of those
right now. I'll be the few,
>> the few, the proud, the many. Let's go.
>> Uh, the first one is, can the poem be
solved in isolation using a mathematical
flow equation?
>> Using a mathematical flow equation.
Sounds like something that requires a
math degree.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
Okay. Second question.
Will finding the hypotenuse of a
triangulated search area help someone
find the location of the checkpoint or
the treasure? Will finding the
hypotenuse of a triangulated area help
somebody find the location of the
treasure
>> or checkpoint
>> or checkpoint.
>> Uh I I haven't specified.
>> Okay. My first question is do you prefer
warheads or pop rocks?
>> Warheads or pop rocks.
>> Um
>> you know what's funny? I've never
actually I've never had pop.
>> Did you bring some?
Please tell me you brought both these
candies in order for him to try it. If
you've never had Pop Rocks,
>> no.
>> Oh my god. Oh my god. Does anybody have
Pop Rocks in their bag?
>> So great.
>> We'll say TBD.
>> Yeah. Fair enough.
>> Okay. Thank you. You're welcome.
>> All right. That's great. Okay.
>> Question. Are you married?
>> I'm sorry.
>> Are you married?
>> Yeah.
>> Anybody else?
She really took all you. Okay. Nobody
else has any questions. Okay. So,
um
>> Oh, I do actually have and we talked
about this in the past. Um
>> the high clearance, low clearance
vehicle question. Most of the BL BLM
lands are muddy and ruddy and depending
on the time of year, you know, they
might not be as accessible. Um, I'm just
wondering if your definition of a low
clearance vehicle would include BLM dirt
roads that get a little gy at times.
>> Would my definition of a low clearance
vehicle include roads that get a little
gy sometimes or just muddy? Um,
yeah. I mean, I I I
think under normal operating conditions,
a BLM road, as you mentioned, would be
would be fair game that's passable by an
average vehicle.
Uh, you don't you don't need four-wheel
drive. You don't need
>> Prius. Can a Prius? Can a Prius make it?
Can a Prius Prius Prius Prius?
>> Yeah, I think a Prius
>> Prius. Multiple Prii.
>> Yeah.
>> Caravan of Priy.
Sorry. There's somebody else in the room
with a Prius. I'm sorry.
>> I mean, it it I'm trying to think of
something that's lower clearance at a
Prius. Uh
>> my car's not this far off the ground.
>> You could you could go get the treasure
with like a serious low rider.
>> Oh,
>> seriously.
>> Yeah.
>> Would the Celica have made it?
If a low rider, a serious
>> would absolutely have made it. Yeah.
>> Wow. That's a good That's actually a
good clue.
>> Ferrari.
>> A Ferrari could make it. Yes,
>> that's actually a really good clue. I'm
I'm happy to hear that.
>> You're welcome.
>> So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So,
I've heard that you're uh you're pretty
bummed out
that you can't search for your own
treasure.
So, I've prepared a little something for
you.
Here's a poem.
[Laughter]
Um, and I'm gonna see chat. I want you
guys to put in the chat. Everybody
comment how long you think it's going to
take Justin to decipher and find the
treasure.
You're going on a treasure hunt, buddy.
All right, I'm going to say the poem out
loud and then we're going to give it to
him and let him look at it. He might
not. He's It's got to take I'm guessing
37 seconds. Okay, that's how long it's
going to take him. But guys, put your
put your guesses in the chat how long
you think it's going to take. Um
>> I think you're about to realize how
obtuse I am.
>> Okay. All right. Um so, uh here's here's
the poem.
It's called Within the Lodge Walls.
Alluring. Yes.
Can you find
what lies behind
a flip of a page? A moment in time. The
notes will go where hot water flows.
What you seek, I already know.
>> Wait, what?
Uh
uh. Is this an interactive hunt?
>> We're going to I'm going to follow you
around the room with the live stream.
>> Oh boy. Uh
>> it's pretty. It's Don't make it too
deep, Justin.
>> A flip of a page, a moment in time, the
notes will go where hot water flows.
Uh,
>> yeah. I'm thinking like, is this is this
on the toilet seat or something behind?
>> Let's go look. Let's go look.
>> We're going to the toilet.
>> Let's go to the toilet if that's where
you want to go.
>> This is not on my bingo card today.
>> Hold on. Let me flip this around real
quick.
[Music]
>> Be careful what you look for.
>> We're going to the toilet. We're going
to the toilet.
Is there a treasure there?
>> Just look at this is your first your
first idea. I'll tell you the first
floor. We're not going upstairs. I'll
tell you that.
>> That helps a little bit, right? And you
can't go any
>> We're going to give it away if you don't
sit down.
>> I think there's people in your audience.
I don't look to them for clues because
they've already figured it out.
>> There's people over there that are like,
"Wait, look at me."
>> I told you you'd find out too soon.
>> Uh, hot water flows like
>> What could be hot water? It's not
>> hot water.
>> Is this a radiator? What is this? Is it
>> What?
>> Is it a radiator?
required advanced degree.
[Laughter]
>> Uh the notes will go where hot water
flows when you see is this in a uh one
of the encyclopedia or is this
>> maybe you should investigate the area
just
>> where does it go?
>> Um
Are you really a treasure hunter?
>> I I see pipes.
>> Guys, can we tap this screen? Let's get
to 100,000 taps. You see pipes? Keep
keep reading the poem. Keep looking.
>> Uh, where hot water flows, what you
seek, I already know. Um, is it is it
>> go back there? I don't know. Does this
look like
That is pretty.
>> There's more. There's a whole bunch of
stuff.
>> What is it?
>> See, now I can say I found a trigger in
my life.
>> So, um, the rest of that we'll say for
off Tik Tok. We'll show it to the
YouTube, but if you can take this over
here and look at it if you want, but the
rest is not go on Tik Tok.
>> But it leads to another story. So,
>> I love how my first inclination was to
go to the commode.
>> All right. So, uh, yeah. So, basically
the, uh, the other part of it, they'll
have to, there might be an extra story
if you feel like telling another story
from the rest of the treasure, but we
can't share that one on, um, Tik Tok.
That'll be on the replay on YouTube.
>> Yeah, that's probably not PC. Uh,
>> oh, super cool. Are these Aspens?
>> Yes, they are.
>> Yes, they're aspens.
>> That's really cool.
Twix.
>> It's just cold. It's cold chocolate.
[Music]
9:00 time.
>> Does that mean something?
>> It does. Absolutely does. Every clock
Every clock in this series means
something.
>> All right. That's a
>> Not everything in here means something.
>> They're all clues. Everything in this
box is a clue. Write it down, people.
I'm kidding.
>> This is the magic wand here.
>> That's That's your Yeah. This is, in
case they can't see, this is an elorn
with a uh a grasshopper.
That is really cool.
>> Did you make this?
>> Yes.
>> Thank you.
>> And we had a lot of a lot of different
things were um contributed from Debbie
at the bookstore, Ashley.
>> Um Yes.
>> Well, I'm digging it. Thank you guys.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Hot dog in there.
>> And there I was going to put a raw hot
dog, but I didn't know I was going to be
able to tell that story, so the raw dog
was left out. I was really going to put
a raw dog in there. I really was. But I
didn't know we were telling that story.
>> Jewelry. Put it on.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, it's your style.
>> Stylish.
>> Sounds more like a bracelet.
>> Yeah. Well, there's actually an actual
There's a
>> Whoa.
>> That's for the hot springs.
>> That's your golden swim.
>> That's the dragon bracelet.
>> Are you serious?
>> Bracelet.
>> The golden swim pass
>> for the hot springs.
That's the equivalent of the dragon
bracelet.
>> I haven't slept in that hotring for like
six years now or something. It's been
quite a while. I know. I'm overdue.
>> Well, then you should definitely
>> Whoa.
It's just, you know, treasure.
>> Oh, this is really cool.
>> Golden pocket knife.
Oh my gosh, this is full of stuff.
>> Yeah, you can just kind of pull this.
>> Did this come from Crystal Park?
>> Yes. Every crystal in there came from
crystal.
>> That's cool. I'm a little upset with
this.
>> Oh, we can fix it. Yeah,
>> it literally broke right before you were
due to be here and I was running around
trying to fix it last second. So,
candies.
>> Whoa. Do I see gold nuggets?
>> Yeah, those are real gold nuggets. I
found those here in the valley. Thug
them out myself.
>> They're so heavy.
>> I was boots on the ground when I found
those.
>> Absolutely. Figured I'd give them to you
though, you know.
>> Well, you're retired now.
>> For myself. Exactly.
>> That's cool.
>> I just, you know, turn to the other
side. That's from Debbie.
>> Oh, that's cool.
>> Yeah,
>> it says book.
>> It's It's a book. It's a book.
Says book.
>> Oh, this is neat.
Oh, that's really cool.
>> That's from Debbie, too.
>> It's a dog pen.
>> Yeah,
>> it's golden, too. It was perfect. He was
like, "Oh, it's a golden box."
>> How long did it take you to put this
together?
>> Yeah. Really?
>> Um, I got the divine idea uh just a
couple of days ago, less than 48 hours
ago, and I did most of it yesterday, but
Ashley was a major help. U Brandon
constantly going back and forth. And
>> yes, that actually was a hair charm in
my hair for like three years. So,
>> it's part of me.
part of a sandal.
>> Thought I'd spray painted gold for you.
>> I need coins.
>> I need Yeah. Well, those are real.
That's real gold. That's real gold in
the form of a quarter diamond nickel.
Sh.
>> I didn't spray any money.
>> This has been enhanced, not defaced.
>> Yes, absolutely. And you know, if you
don't you can if you can keep digging if
you want. You don't have to. I just
wanted to.
>> This is cool.
you to be able to to hunt a treasure of
your own.
>> Well, see, like I said, now I can
finally say I found a treasure in my
life.
>> And it wasn't in the toilet.
>> The treasure that wasn't in the toilet.
>> Oh, another crystal, too.
>> There's I think there's three in there.
>> Two from Ashley, one from me. All from
Crystal Park.
>> Where did you find the aspen leaves?
>> Uh, right here in the driveway.
>> I figure you had to go far. Yeah,
>> but these are choice.
>> Yep. They're beautiful, right?
>> They are. Oh, and the sticker is cool.
>> The sticker that's from Debbie.
>> I thought so. If I can get it out.
>> Come on.
>> And the box, this box was Ashley's
daughter.
>> Says Montana, the treasure state. Is
that a hint?
>> Is it a hint?
>> I don't know. Is it?
>> Is it a hint?
>> And then there's a buffalo. That's my
whole community. So, for those of you
that don't know me and my community, we
are Buffy. Um, the buffalo is the only
animal in the animal kingdom that runs
into the storm instead of away from the
storm. So, we do try to embody that here
and living and doing uncomfortable
things and
>> kidding. Yes, absolutely.
>> That's really kind.
>> So, question, will you be auctioning
this off or rehide?
>> It's a good question. Auction or rehide?
This is tough choice. Uh, I might have
to keep it actually. I think I'm going
to keep this.
I was like, if he wants to keep it
forever, it's going to be it's going to
be so sweet. But at the same time, I was
like, watch him say, "Okay, guys, this
is going to be the fourth giveaway."
>> Soon as he opens it up, this will be the
fourth giveaway for the three books, and
then we'll be giving away this treasure
as well. Um, but yeah,
>> I might hide one of the leaves.
>> I'll put it within a mile radius
>> and I'll put my initials on it. I'm the
first person to find that. So, I am
going to be ending the live stream here
in just a second, but I will tell you
there's going to be a little bit more of
this that you're not going to catch on
this live stream. So, you're going to
have to watch the replay on YouTube to
get the rest of what's over there in
that treasure because it's AI does not
allow it on Tik Tok. So, uh, bye Tik
Tok. We love you. We appreciate you.
Thank you everybody for coming, tapping,
sharing, commenting, gifting, all of the
things.
>> Justin, thank you so so much. So much.
>> Awesome. Thank you. Oh. Oh, wait. I
forgot. I had to save this question for
the end. Is there any form of bribery
um that would work to get I I knew you
might feel differently about me after
this. Um to get you to uh tell us where
the treasure container is or another
clue about it.
>> Well, why don't we weigh these
>> the nuggets? The gold nuggets. We're
going to weigh the gold.
>> And the the potential for a hint will be
directly correlated to the weight of
these. How's that? Oh, that sounds big,
guys. That sounds big. We'll get back to
you on the way to those nuggets. Uh, Tik
Tok, thank you though. Seriously, thank
you for being here. Thanks for tapping,
sharing, commenting, gifting, all the
things. Buffy, I appreciate you all.
Thank you for being here. And make sure
to catch the replay on my YouTube. Thank
you guys.
>> All right,
I'm going to end it.
So now now
>> Justin, you have another story to tell.
You got to go find the rest of that
treasure. Then there's another story
connected to it.
[Laughter]
>> There's another story.
>> I need to give the real
>> another story.
>> Tell the pickle story now.
>> Yeah, right. And we can get the pickle
story.
>> Are we okay? So yeah, we'll just let him
bring it all over. There's three things.
There's that.
You did.
>> Yes, I did.
Supposed to be in there, but you can't
show it on TikTok. So,
>> is it raw dog w is it close? You're
about to hear a good story about this
wine.
>> That's it's it's Listen, listen. It
might be a raccoon, but it's supposed to
be a badger. And that's a point, too,
>> because I had a dream about his badger,
and uh it was not a badger in my dream,
but I knew it was Justin's badger.
>> More like a Wolverine. Yeah, something
or a puppet.
>> Wow. Thank you.
>> So, what's the name? Can you can you
read us the name of that wine? Justin,
could you pronounce that for us? What's
that? What's that wine that I gave you?
>> Hey, uh, this is
Managa.
>> I love that.
>> How do you say it? Hold on. I don't
think that's how it's pronounced. Hold
up. Hold up. Hold up. I That's not how
it's pronounced, Justin. That's not what
you told me the other day. That's your
favorite wine. What did you tell me the
name of your favorite wine was?
>> Well, so let me back up.
Let me back up. Uh,
in my younger years, I I attended a
Microsoft executive holiday party and,
um, well, uh, I somehow got stuck
talking to a group of execs and they
were chatting about wine, you know, and
it's like, well, how hard can this be? I
know wine, right? It's fine. Uh so
they're talking about their vintages and
you know uh and so I felt like I had to
contribute somehow, right?
Like well you know I
>> This is like my second favorite story of
all time.
>> Yeah. I had a good wine recently. You
know it's a a red uh I said it's boy
it's called
managa
Ice broken.
>> So, uh, Justin's favorite wine, guys.
Mina Just just for you. Just for
you, Justin.
>> To be fair, like
>> this is how I had always pronounced it.
I thought that's the way you pronounced
it, you know. Um, and no one had ever
really corrected me. Uh, so
>> nobody,
>> uh, that was pretty abrupt change in
conversation as you can imagine. Um,
>> at Microsoft, this was
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I was like exit Steve
left
>> right left out of your bathroom toilet.
Can I get the toilet?
>> It was a bad bad situation.
>> N Love it. So I got you a bottle,
you know, with a little cowboy pants
topper. All solid gold.
>> With your badger.
>> It's a skunk, I think. But
>> you know, I had to look up. You saw me
have to look up what a badger looked
like on my live stream. Literally, I had
>> actually pretty close. I had to Google
what a badger looked like. So, in my
defense, I mean, a skunk works, you
know, but I have a scale here to weigh
those gold nuggets.
>> Well, you're not messing around.
>> Can we get a Could we could we get some
uh some clues? We need clues. What did
you say the What did you say about those
nuggets in the in the weight?
>> What's the density of gold?
>> That's a good question. Anybody?
>> What was the question?
>> Density of gold. Anybody?
>> Got some real smart people in the chat.
Appreciate y'all. You're making me look
bad. I was hoping y'all could just help
me so I didn't have to say it. You know,
>> we just know it's au.
>> I think we ended up bite it for some
reason.
>> Yeah. Can we bite those? You want to
bite one of those? Please don't. Please
don't.
>> Well, we ended up with 30 g total.
>> 30 g, not 33.
>> No, it's 30.
>> Or 42.
>> This is close.
>> It's 30. All right. Just checking.
>> Maybe we should add the coins. Add the
gold coins to the nuggets and see see
where we end up with the coins and the
nuggets.
>> Oh, we got to tear this. Hold on.
>> Oh, that's a good idea. I don't
>> Maybe that was the problem.
>> You need the crystals, too.
>> Crystal the crystals are valuable.
>> Oh, 36.
[Applause]
>> See if the crystals will do to 42.
>> Oh, they could be a 42
>> with the crystals probably heavier.
>> Yeah, it's heavy.
>> Yeah, we're already at almost 50.
>> Yeah,
>> I'm trying to get to 42. I'm trying.
>> Let's go with the coins. I think that's
going to be over
>> gold coins.
>> 52.
>> 52.
>> So sorry.
>> The shell.
>> The shell.
>> 38.
>> She's trying.
[Laughter]
>> 41.
>> 41.
[Laughter]
42. 42. For some reason, 42 just keeps
coming up in this interview. I I can't
figure out why. It's just It's almost
like it just popped up, you know? Like,
I didn't even have to do anything to get
it. I don't even know how that just
happened.
>> I'm trying to decipher this hint. So,
it's where the
>> It's 42. It's a 42.
>> Where the pine cone meets the clock
>> with
>> with the seashell.
>> It's the gold. At the gold. The gold's
the most important part. It's all gold.
Clearly, there's a common denominator to
the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy
versus this.
>> This is This is There's clearly
>> clearly clearly the gold is the common
denominator of all of it.
>> Well, what are you doing here? I think
you got this figured out.
>> I I think I'm about to go pick up a
treasure. I'll let you know when I find
it.
Thank you guys for being here. If you're
here on the YouTube, if you came for the
Tik Tok, thank you. But at for the
YouTube, thank you. Consider
subscribing. Appreciate everything.
Thank you for being here. Thank you,
Justin.
>> Thank you, Sam. What an
>> All right.

[music]
>> Welcome to a Gypsy's Kiss.
Tonight's live conversation is with
Justin Posey, creator of the modern
treasure hunt Beyond the Map's Edge.
Over the past several weeks, members of
the treasure hunting community submitted
thoughtful questions about hunt design,
intent, and experience.
Those questions helped shape tonight's
discussion, not to solve the hunt, but
to better understand how it was created
and how modern treasure hunts are meant
to be experienced.
This conversation will focus on design
philosophy, creative process, and
stewardship without spoilers or
solutions.
Now, here's your host, Toby Yunis.
Thank you, Eric. And Justin, I can't
tell you how good it is to see you, and
thank you for joining me tonight. I'm
sure my audience is excited to have you
here.
I appreciate you having me, Toby. It's
been a while since we've last spoken, so
thanks for having me on. Well, the last
time was a champagne party with birthday
cake and the Tamaya, was it Was that the
last time we actually saw each other? It
might have been. It's been quite a
while, yeah. Yeah, so great to be here.
Oh, good. I hope I hope
this will go well enough that you'll
come back in the future sometime. I hope
so, too.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh couple of things, audience. Uh for
those of you who sent in the 200
questions that you wanted me to ask
Justin, uh we took the best of the best
and we've incorporated them into the
conversation. That's the first thing.
The second thing is Justin has given me
a time of about 1 hour, so there's a lot
to get through in that time. And
there was something else I needed to
say. Oh, I wanted you to know that
Justin has not seen the questions in
advance. He's seeing He's hearing and
seeing these questions
for the first time. So, because we have
a limited amount of time, I'm going to
jump right into questions. Justin, you
okay with that? Happy to oblige. All
right. Uh what you're going to see is
that I've divided my questions into six
different areas. Uh I won't introduce
each area, but I will uh let you know
that I'm about to start a new area. Uh
these are These are the six questions
that if he had given me 5 minutes to
have a conversation, I would have asked.
All right?
All right. And Fenn's chest was found in
2020. The auction happened in 2020 20
2022.
Uh your launch in 2025. Somewhere in
that gap, you decided to step into the
arena.
When was the moment you knew you were
going to do this?
You know, I
>> [clears throat]
>> I had thrown around the idea for many
years, especially looking for Forest
treasure. I had always had this in the
infinitesimally small chance that I
found it, this idea that I could rehide
it. And I certainly wasn't the only one
to have that idea.
Um a lot of people did.
Uh but I think just I ended up being a
position where I could make it happen,
and
uh you know, there were a few driving
factors that kind of led up to that. I
think one of them was
uh you know, some some pretty serious
health concerns. And I think that causes
a lot of self-reflection.
And I tried to
I really wanted to think about how
uh
if things didn't turn out so well for
me, how I wanted to experience the
whatever [snorts] time that I had. And
so, I chose to funnel that into a
treasure hunt.
Oh, what a great decision and what a
great way to resolve uh life's life's
continuing issues, you know?
Congratulations on that decision. Uh
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah. Fenn still with lawsuits,
stalkers, and chaos. Why knowingly take
on that same burden? Did you ever almost
talk yourself out of it?
It's an interesting choice of words, uh
burden.
Um
And I think at times, it's easy to feel
that way. Uh
I don't think anybody who's experienced
the full arc of a large-scale treasure
hunt
goes in uh naive, not knowing what could
happen.
Uh so, I I went in, as they say, eyes
wide open.
Um
But really, what it what it boiled down
to is the the experience that I had and
how much ultimately joy that it brought
to me. And I realized that I wasn't
alone in that regard.
And I felt like the world uh lost
something
with the
uh the ending of the Fenn treasure hunt.
And so, I'm by no means, you know,
trying to create the magic of what
Forest did. His certainly stands alone.
Uh but I wanted to do what I could to
uh
further the magic in what other way
whatever way that I could. And this was
the best that I could muster.
So, that actually brings me to the next
question. Uh how did the chaos at the
end of the Forest Fenn hunt influence
the guardrails you built into this one?
Well, very much so. Um you know, Forest
didn't have
the the the ability of hindsight. He
It ended. A lot of things were chaotic,
and I think it was very reactionary in
nature.
Uh but it was also an excellent case
study.
And so, for me,
um I think that's really where the
rubber hit the road in terms of seeing
everything that
could have gone better. And by no fault
of his own, he just didn't didn't know.
Um so, I did the best that I could based
on my observations and the experience
that I had to iterate on that and ensure
that it might be, hopefully,
uh a smoother experience. You know,
treasure hunts are are all fun and games
until it's found. Uh and then a lot of
unfortunate things can happen. And you
know, I'm I'm aware of those potentials.
Uh but I've done what I can to um make
the ending as streamlined as possible
and also make it as
uh
authentically and independently
verifiable as possible.
So, I do want to mention for those of
you that don't already know uh a lot of
the information relating to the hunt,
including the rules of the hunt, uh are
on Justin's website, and that's at
treasure.quest. And I've put it down in
the um
uh in the tagline below us. So, uh if
you haven't checked that out, I'd be
surprised if any of you haven't checked
it out. But if you haven't, make sure
you go there to visit. And it's very
well well done, as everything that
Justin does, well very well done, uh
website.
Uh the phrase {quote} zero doubt
{unquote} resonates strongly with the
community. Conceptually, what does that
mean to you as a designer?
Uh in what context?
In what context? In the context of how
people see your treasure hunt, zero
doubt.
Yeah, so I I I mean, I can recall
offhand a few times I might have
mentioned that that very specific term
in maybe a few different contexts. But
generally speaking,
uh
I wanted to design a treasure hunt where
the person that
finds it
uh along the way,
they will gain
confidence as opposed to, you know, a
status quo.
Um I think, you know, Forest treasure
hunt was interesting.
You went from zero to one. There was no
in between. It's like you you could be 5
ft away and and and not know it. And and
that's certainly
um you know, at least to a certain
degree, there are some of those
possibilities in my treasure hunt as
well. But um it was the clues, as you
progress through them, it was a question
of
uh am I on the right track? And you
really truly didn't know until the
treasure was in front of you. And that's
something that um
makes treasure hunting hard.
Uh and and and so, I wanted to
kind of play on that a little bit and
and give a way for people to
gain confidence as opposed to
losing or having a status quo of con-
confidence as they work through the
clues.
Um
Setting that aside, whether the treasure
is found tomorrow or years from now, how
will you personally know this hunt was a
success?
How will I know it's a success? Well,
um
I think that there are enough mechanics
in play such that I will will know
when the treasure has been found.
And
action can be taken at that time.
Uh
Now, I mean, I could get run over by a
bus tomorrow. And I have to ensure that
the treasure hunt can run smoothly
without me being here. And I feel
confident that it can.
Um
think that's about all I can say about
that. Um
Let me think about this for a moment. Um
No, I think that's good.
All right. [clears throat] I think
that's good. So, let's I I wasn't
planning to ask follow-on questions, but
I think I think I
I want to on this one. Uh let's say uh
40 years from now,
uh you it's 10 years past when your
treasure was found. And somebody says,
uh was it a success? How would you know
it was a success other than it was
found?
My gosh, 40 years ago. I I 40 years 40
years from now and and 10 years after it
was found would imply that it's been 30
years.
>> Hypothetically, hypothetically.
[laughter]
Yeah,
I really don't think it's going to take
that long but the temporal aspect aside,
how will somebody judge whether it's a
success?
You know, I I think
there's only so much that you can do in
terms of
of clues and what they mean.
At some point they need interpretation.
And I think
for any given clue that somebody
creates, there's another person in the
world that will look at it and say that
makes no sense at all.
And so I tried to design the treasure
hunt in a way where
even if
one particular clue
may not make 100%
sense to a given individual
they can still I guess for lack of a
better term limp along and ultimately
piece things together.
Um
but I think the ultimate gauge of
success is
um
was the find verifiable?
Uh
did the treasure actually exist?
And um
maybe it's also a function of the number
of conspiracy theories that exist post
find.
Uh I have to think that there's an
inverse relationship there. So I would
also say that the the less conspiracy
theories exist, the better the success
of the treasure hunt.
I I think that's an excellent measure. I
think that's a good measure.
You created treasure.quest as the
official home for the hunt. Rules,
updates and classification all live
there. What role did you intend that
site to play in balancing official
guidance with organic community
discussions?
Uh good question. Um
I I wanted to design the site as a
central hub.
So that you're generally one click away
from any sort of information that is
hunt related.
And so you do not need to be in the
Discords. You do not need to be on
all the different social media channels
24/7. Now I'm saying it's totally fine
to do that. It's a great community
outlet for a lot of people and I think
that social engagement is really
powerful but it's not necessary.
Uh everything that is related to the
hunt
I want a centralized location where you
can go to one spot, treasure.quest on
the announcements page and you can see
anything that I post that is
specifically related to the hunt,
whether it's a YouTube interview like
this that of course I'll link after
we're done here.
Uh or anything else that I think is is
relevant. Now I I know that um
from time to time there are murmurs of
oh well I you know I I went to a lunch
with the treasure hunter or I dropped
into a Discord and said hello um or
answered a few questions and I think
that really boils down to trust in the
creator.
And it's a question of whether or not
you believe that the creator is not
going off in private conversations and
giving away private hints.
And that I think is just an important
foundation for any treasure hunt. If you
think the creator is capable of doing
that then it's probably not the right
treasure hunt for you.
Uh but
to the best of my abilities this is what
I do is I I treat the the the website as
the the single source of truth and I
update it as regularly as I'm able to
make sure that it has all the
information anybody needs within a few
clicks away
uh of the of the pertinent details.
So let's go on to round one. That was
round zero.
Um you're an engineer by trade. Uh what
was harder, engineering the logic of the
hunt or crafting the narrative history
around it?
No gosh. Uh narrative history, hm.
I don't
So by narrative history are you
referring to the book?
>> telling, yeah. Oh my goodness, yeah. Um
you know, the treasure hunt came
together fairly quickly.
Uh you know, the
I had never written a book before. Of
course I'd never I guess you arguably
you could say I have designed
uh treasure hunts before but to
far lesser degrees than this one. Um but
for the book, I don't I don't recall
ever writing a book before. So
uh that that was that was that was
harder. Um you know, some
some chapters came very easily and very
quickly and others were a struggle.
Um but it really made me realize uh that
I should leave writing to the
professionals. It's
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, it's it's an unenviable
profession. I think there's um it's that
grind each day where you know, you you
need to sit down you need to write
something and you need to and you need
to know that what you're writing you're
probably going to change 30 times before
it gets released. Uh so I think that was
the harder aspect to me was the actual
writing of the book as opposed to the
mechanics of the treasure hunt itself
just because I think probably in an
engineering mindset I can
uh I felt a at least a base level of
confidence I think that I could
put all the pieces together in terms of
Yeah, I mean I think what is in effect a
a verification chain
uh so that later on
somebody can look at this independently
and say yeah, I mean
it checks out. Like this this works.
Mhm. Yeah, it is a process. We we found
out in our treasure hunt that it's not
as simple as writing a book and a poem
and putting a treasure out there. It's a
there's a bunch of pieces that all have
to fit together in the end. So.
So I used AI to analyze your public
interviews.
Uh it described you as an open book on
narrative but a steel vault on
mechanics. Is that a fair assessment?
>> [snorts]
>> Well, I think that's in the eye of the
beholder.
Uh
I I you know, I
I I try and be very cautious around
certain mechanics because
I think those words carry more gravity
and they need to be crafted very
carefully especially in a public
setting.
And so I'm I'm much more
apt to answer those types of questions
if it's in written form because it gives
me time to really think through it and
analyze it before I I provide a full
answer as opposed to something that's
well, like this.
Uh more verbal and off the cuff you
know, the the potential for mistakes is
higher and those mistakes have
repercussions, right? I mean people as
we know in all treasure hunts they they
mince and slice and dice every word that
comes out and this will be no different.
And so
um you know, I think back when I was
searching for the Forrest Fenn treasure,
the last thing that I wanted was from
for Forrest to say something that was
incorrect.
Uh and I would much rather him take his
time and respond
uh very deliberately and diligently as
opposed to something off the cuff. And I
I I seem to recall maybe it was you that
created a kind of a pyramid of truth.
Mhm. You know, and it's at at the base
you have something where Forrest took
his time or a treasure hunt creator took
their time and they wrote it down and
you know, maybe they it's even on their
website or in their book. Like that is
kind of the foundation and you kind of
move up from there. When you get to the
very top as I recall it's like oh you
know, it's an off the cuff uh
answer verbally in you know, a
non-professional setting like that.
That's going to carry far less weight.
So I I hope I hope people keep that in
mind but I I try to do the best I can.
You know, if I think about all the
statements that I said
since the treasure hunt has launched
um just
>> [sighs]
>> to the best of my recollection there's
nothing
that I recall saying that was
incorrect. And I think from time to time
people look at that and say oh well I've
got this statement and that statement
and they're at odds with each other.
Um but I think it's really important to
context in which it was said
and [snorts] I think once people
you know, consider that they may come to
a different conclusion that oh actually
these two things can fit together in a
complementary way.
Yeah, that whole thing was based upon
how the intelligence community evaluates
incoming in information before it
actually becomes usable. So I'm that's
I'm glad you remembered that. Thank you.
>> [laughter]
>> So before I get technical, I promised
Emma of Emma and Jam treasure hunt
podcast.
>> I'm already afraid.
>> [laughter]
>> She I promised she I'd ask this question
for her. Between her and Jam, whose
hosting style do you find more
entertaining and why?
Oh my gosh. Really putting me on the
spot here.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh
I would say it depends on how many
drinks either of them have had.
>> [laughter]
>> That's good. I haven't seen I don't I
assume that I did an interview with them
recently. I didn't know if either one of
them was drinking but
>> [laughter]
>> I don't know either.
Maybe I could guess.
How does your grandfather's legacy
influence the emotional center of this
hunt even if it's not the solution
itself?
Well, my my grandfather I think of
you know, I had I
I like to believe that I had very strong
um male role models and figures in my
life especially in my early life and he
was one of those people.
And so
you know, to me it's uh
it means a great deal and
uh I think that um
the way in which those people that
impress upon you early in life and shape
who you are.
Uh there's
I don't I don't want to say an
obligation, but there is
a need for them to be remembered.
And um
I think that that is certainly important
to me.
Yeah.
Oh, it comes across.
Uh let's go on to round two. From a
design perspective, did you
intentionally build in moments that
signal to a searcher, {quote} you may be
drifting too far, {unquote} before they
commit major resources?
For whatever reason, my audio cut out
briefly. Could you just repeat that for
me, please?
>> to. Thank you.
>> From a design perspective, did you
intentionally build in moments that
signal to a searcher, {quote} you may be
drifting too far, {unquote} before they
commit major resources?
Hm.
>> [clears throat]
>> I think that's a very hard thing to do
in a treasure hunt.
Um
You know, at some point
I think as I've mentioned before, like
there is
you will not solve the entirety
of the clues
sitting at home. I think you'll you
could have a very good idea,
uh but you can't necessarily or you
cannot solve it entirely from home. So,
there is a boots-on-the-ground
component. I think like for any treasure
hunt
uh or for many treasure hunts, that's
true. I get the kind of the same sense
from say John Collins' black hunt as
well. There is a lot of analytical
thinking involved. It seems clear
enough, but additionally, at some point
even if you know the the area, you have
to go out and and find it.
And
uh so, what I did try and avoid is this
notion of drudgery in the form of
you know, grid searching an area day
after day after day
and um
the resources that can be consumed as a
result of that.
Uh but it's also a balance between that
and
well, the sense of adventure. And I
think the core of adventure is
beyond your map's edge, getting off and
doing something getting away and doing
something that you wouldn't normally do.
And you know, there can be a bit of
expense involved in that, you know, the
logistics of of going to a place and so
on.
Uh but I tried to design it in a way
where uh there is a balance where you
you do get that experience,
but you do not need to spend
you know, exorbitant amounts of of time
uh draining resources uh in the outdoors
in order to find the treasure.
And I think also there's a balance
between protecting them from themselves
and limiting their imagination.
Uh because I think imagination is what
sells a treasure hunt. So. Oh boy, I I
don't think truer words were never
spoken. I think that's spot-on and it's
it's a hard balance, especially in
today's society with all of the
you know, legalities and so on. Uh I do
miss the
or reminisce about maybe a
an earlier time where it was
kind of the more romantic version of
just going out and
hiding something and
saying, "Just go find it." Like that's
really the end of it. But unfortunately,
this is not quite the world we live in.
Yeah. Yeah.
Uh you built this hunt largely in
isolation. Now that it's live, has
anything about how people engage with it
surprise you?
Uh
hm.
I think all treasure hunts have their
unique surprises.
Um
Kind of reminds me of a book by Raymond
Chen many years ago. I think it was
called the
the old new thing or the new old thing.
Uh
um
There are certain patterns that
certainly repeat. And you know, I think
no matter what treasure hunt is out
there, there's going to be a certain
amount of you know, just drama that
surrounds it and I think there are
certain personalities that kind of get
attracted and latch onto that.
Um
I don't know if this is answering your
question, though. I
um Do you want to repeat the question to
make sure I get this right? Uh you built
this hunt largely in isolation. Yeah.
And you did that to protect yourself and
the hunt. Now that it's live, has
anything about how people engage with it
surprise you?
Um
I think there have been you know, there
have been a few
you know, acute situations where I felt
like I I I set out set up enough ground
rules and was really clear about things
where I thought, "Well, maybe this is
clear enough where people won't do XYZ."
Uh but unfortunately, they still do. And
you know, that's unfortunate, but it
shouldn't be surprising to me. Uh but it
was a little surprising.
>> [laughter]
>> I guess just call me naive. Uh
But no, I think I think generally
speaking so far, um
the only thing that I I think has
surprised me is that I thought the
technical clue would have been found a
little bit earlier than it did. Um
It does not surprise me that it was
released publicly. I I I figured that
would happen. And I was hoping that
would happen cuz it's just the kind of
thing that it was an Easter egg. And it
really wasn't meant to be kind of a core
part of the solution. And it was very
technical for some people. And so, I
didn't want people to get the impression
that, "Oh, it's like oh my gosh, this is
the the foundation for this treasure
hunt. If I can't solve this, I'm not
going to solve anything." It's not like
that. Um
it's just something fun that I put in.
Uh but yeah, it probably probably took a
little bit longer for people to solve
that than I anticipated. And I think
kind of the treasure hunt as a whole, uh
part of me really thought that it would
have been found by now. And of course it
hasn't. Uh
but uh time will tell. Time will tell.
Well, I love the idea that you think it
should have been found by now. I think
that's going to be exciting to a lot of
searchers to hear that. Oh.
>> [laughter]
>> Um let's go back to Treasure Quest for
just one more one more question. And and
this is based on a hypothesis of mine
rather than anything else. The site
places clear emphasis on rules, safety,
and boundaries. How early in the design
process did you realize that the rules
themselves were part of the hunt's
architecture and not just legal
housekeeping?
Uh that the rules were part of the
architecture? Um
Yeah, I mean I think there's a recipe
for a
a good solid treasure hunt and rules are
certainly
an aspect of that recipe.
Um
So, I think it's fair to say I realized
early on that there needs to be ground
rules. Um and that was iterative based
on what we saw with Forrest Fenn's
treasure hunt. I really wanted to avoid
um any sort of injury or worse as it
pertains to a treasure hunt. And that's
always the balance that you have
between, you know, what is a true
adventure without you know, at least
kind of the feeling of of of danger. Uh
but also,
you know, having some guardrails on it,
but not to the point where it's it's
bubble wrapped and
and not fun. Uh not adventurous. So,
uh yeah, I mean I think to answer your
question, the
I I think I realized very early on that
a
a solid set of ground rules were really
paramount to making sure that things
stay on the rails and that uh
people stay safe.
Um do you think modern treasure hunts
are sometimes misunderstood because
people bring expectations from past
hunts that no longer apply?
Oh, certainly. You know, I I think
um
I mean even just you know, the the
experiences that people have throughout
their life as they grow old
uh shapes who they are. And um it shapes
their opinions.
And I think it's no different with
treasure hunts. Uh
you know,
people had asked me early on, you know,
do you need
to have gone through the Forrest Fenn
experience in order to be successful
with this treasure hunt? Or do you I
need to have a you know, a deep
knowledge of Forrest Fenn to figure this
out?
And
you know, to the best of my abilities, I
ensured that that
uh
doesn't need to happen. Um
You know, I mean there's always biases.
Everybody has them. Myself included, of
course. Uh and
that's why I think just like the the
awareness of
a potential bias is step one
uh in making sure that you don't uh kind
of carry forward things that might I
wouldn't say taint, but
shape a treasure hunt in a way that
would give an advantage to somebody who
has
a prior experience with say, the Forrest
Fenn treasure hunt.
So, I do want to take just one moment to
say something to the audience. Ladies
and gentlemen, I very much appreciate
the fact that some of you have
contributed via super chat. And I'm
sorry I don't have time or I don't have
the resources to recognize each one. I
see them and I'm very grateful. And if I
had a Shelly here, she could handle
doing
this,
you know,
uh but I'm just very much focused on
this. So, I would I don't want you to
think I'm not noticing and I don't want
you to think that I'm not grateful. I I
am noticing and I am grateful. And since
that one just happened, thank you, Ted.
I feel like the bum here. I feel like I
should be running the super chats or
something.
>> [laughter]
>> Um round three.
Uh you've advised against searching in
the snow. Is that primarily an access
issue or a concealment issue?
Access or concealment? Um
It's primarily a safety issue. Huh.
Uh
>> stick that in there. That I should made
that part of it. Yeah, I mean I I don't
want anybody doing anything
uh dangerous. And you know, it's it's
funny because
you know, danger is relative. You know,
for for people that say
uh are used to the snow,
it could actually be far less dangerous
than going to say New Mexico in in July
and and running out of water. You know,
I mean I did the heat is actually
a much more dangerous
aspect than the cold here in the US, but
um
you know, I
the primary aspect is safety. I don't I
don't want anybody getting hurt, and I
think um
yeah, that's all I'll say about that.
Broadly speaking, how important was
physical safety in deciding where and
how the treasure was placed?
Uh
there were definite safety aspects
considered.
Um
you know, I certainly
wouldn't want somebody
scaling a cliffside,
you know, and what's carabiners and rope
in order to get to a location.
Uh so, to the best of my abilities, I've
I've hidden it in a spot that uh
is safe. And
you know, I safe is a relative term. You
know, it's like, well, it's in the
wilderness, and
there are animals in the wilderness. Uh
there there are there's weather in the
wilderness.
Uh but to the best of my abilities, I've
hidden it in a location that I think is
is safe.
Good.
Um let's see.
Oh, okay. So, this is just a
continuation of the safety thing.
Without specifics, is this a hunt you'd
feel comfortable with people
approaching responsibly with older
children?
Yeah, so for
for legal reasons, I will say that the
treasure hunt is for adults,
uh 18 years or older.
Um
you know, I mean, practically speaking,
I'd love to say more about that, uh but
from a legal perspective, I can say it's
it it's an adult endeavor. Okay. I had a
second part to that that asked about
younger children, but I understand your
point, and I'm not going to push it.
On to round four, what responsibilities
does the steward have once the treasure
is found, especially regarding
verification and disclosure?
The steward plays a very important role.
The the steward is there
for a couple of different reasons. One
is
to verify
the authenticity of the finder, to make
sure that they genuinely found the
treasure.
And there is a foolproof
way that that happens.
Uh
and it also is what you call zero
knowledge in its approach in the sense
that the
steward does not know where the
treasure's at.
But based on the true finder that comes
forward,
uh a few things can be divulged. One uh
can be deciphered. One is yes, this
person is telling the truth. They are
the one person that found the treasure.
And two, uh
we can say with 100% certainty where the
treasure was.
And then, once that process is complete,
the steward is in possession of
additional items that will be released
to the person that finds the treasure.
Probably most notably is the
um
the other half of the the Bitcoin wallet
key.
Uh
and it's actually some other
interesting things as well.
And then, uh the other responsibility of
the steward is to
ensure that no one continues to search.
Um because you don't certainly don't
want people out searching for something
that's already been found.
So, those are really the the main
responsibilities, and I think they're
very it's a vital part of of a
a
well-constructed treasure hunt.
I would love to have a conversation, and
maybe you already have had, about the
concept of a Bitcoin wallet key, because
I don't know anything about it. Nothing.
And I went looking for it on YouTube the
other day, and now all I'm getting is
advertising for small Bitcoin treasure
hunting devices that you
plug in nearby. So, It got your number,
yeah. Yeah,
>> [laughter]
>> yeah, I need to know a lot more about
that.
Uh you've described the container as,
quote, extremely recognizable, unquote.
What makes it meaningful to you without
getting into identification details?
I think it will be abundantly clear to
anybody who has been involved in this
treasure hunt
why it's important to me once it's been
found.
Um but I will say it
it is of great significance to me.
And it is something that was built uh
specially.
Yeah.
Um once the hunt concludes, how
transparent do you intend to be about
the solution and the process?
Oh, that's a
a good question.
Um
You know, it's funny, [snorts] like when
this treasure hunt first started, I
thought
uh I want to move this along quickly.
And
I still do.
That being said, I also don't want
to
alienate somebody who has put in the
time and the effort
and feel that they are close, and to
kind of rob them of that by limping
everybody else along
uh to near the finish line.
Uh and I think the same could be said
uh post treasure hunt as well. Maybe
there are people out there that want to
continue to solve the clues for fun and
and kind of figure it out on their own.
Um
but I suspect there will be more people
way more people that will just want to
know what was it. And
so my plan at this time is is to
actually release the full solution that
would include
uh you know, a key or the solution to
all the clues.
And
um and I think in order to put things to
rest, to show
the authentic and genuine nature of the
treasure hunt, um
some supporting documentation would
would also be released to give zero
doubt to people that it it it was hidden
at
a specified location.
Uh so, that's that's my plan.
Good.
What was the moment
where was there a moment where you
deliberately removed something from the
hunt to preserve its integrity?
There was nothing that I removed from
the hunt
due to
integrity.
There were things that ultimately did
not get included
in the the physical vessel
um because it just didn't fit.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh it's literally
I mean, filled to the brim, filled to
the gills. And I I I really couldn't put
anything else in it.
And so, I will say whoever finds it, be
careful
uh
because
uh it is filled very tight.
And um
you know, you would you probably risk
damaging something if you if you aren't
careful about um transporting it.
Now, uh
the things that did not fit,
uh so, funny story. Uh
there were three things, very small
items, uh
I think ultimately very inconsequential,
not not super high value or anything
like that, that I just forgot.
Uh you know, I thought I had all this
this master plan, and typical Justin,
you know, I I I get out there, and I'm
like, where where is, you know, XYZ? And
it wasn't
wasn't there. And I'm like, oh my gosh.
So, that is left with the steward just
because uh I messed up. Uh and then, um
there are a few other things that were
left with the steward because they just
didn't fit. Uh but everything of I think
of real gravitas or of consequence or of
significant value,
um
that at least everything that has been
divulged publicly, that is in the
in the treasure. Uh there are just a few
things that have been set aside that um
I really think that the finder's going
to want.
Yeah. Uh so, let me make sure I
understand. So, these items that you
forgot to include in the container now
are in the hands of the steward. That's
right. And the finder will own them. Oh,
okay. Yes. Yeah. Good. Well, even
better. So, uh I don't have this
question on my list, but my my curiosity
button is
is wavering here.
Um what what happened to the olive jar?
Why is the olive jar, which was this
significant part of the soul of the
Forrest Fenn treasure hunt, end up in
another treasure hunt? I I'm I'm And I
don't mean to put you on the spot over
it, and I don't mean to if if you don't
want to talk about it, fine, but
my curiosity is killing.
Yes, the the heralded olive jar, it has
had quite the journey. Uh you think
about it, it
it started with Forrest, likely there in
Santa Fe, and then, you know, it it
traveled uh well, wherever you think the
treasure was hidden. And it remained
there for the better part of a decade,
and then from there, uh if you uh are in
accordance with Jack Stuef's story, it
went to um
uh New Mexico, as I recall, and then uh
sat in a safe deposit box, and then went
to Texas
uh for the auction, and from there, uh
it ended up coming uh well, actually, it
remained at the auction house. And then,
uh it was sold. So, yeah, I mean, what
what happened with that? So,
um
when the auction house did their
inspection of the various items which
took a very long time. Yeah. They were
able to determine that the seal had not
been broken on the olive jar.
And so it was intact at the time of of
the auction. I had you know an
opportunity to
buy it out from the LLC and keep it
personally.
And I put a tremendous amount of thought
into that. And there were a few
different reasons why I ultimately chose
not to do that.
One is because
um
I
maybe a little bit of self self-doubt or
um
I guess criticism. I didn't
I didn't necessarily feel like I was the
best person to do it.
I think that there was a lot of
conspiracy theories floating around.
And certainly some of them involved
me reportedly, you know, and and so
I felt that if I did this and I opened
it,
nobody
those people would not
believe it.
Even if there was independent
verification. So I felt like I just
wasn't the best person
to do that.
I was really hoping that it would just
become public knowledge. I was actually
very surprised how it turned out. So I
didn't know
that JCB
was interested or even bidding on any of
the items. Of course I didn't know he
was putting together his treasure hunt
at the time. And he did. And so
um
That was kind of the That was the I just
didn't see that one coming. I really
thought whoever bought it
they they were going to open it. And I
thought that you know somebody who paid
significant value for it, it was in
their best interest to make sure that it
was authenticated as part of the
the process of divulging it which surely
they would want to do.
And they didn't.
So
yeah, I mean just kind of a twist. So as
I understand it JCB actually just opened
it himself and just popped it out, read
it and
then kind of put it back together and
put it in his own treasure hunt. So it
had a had a long interesting journey.
Mhm.
This again not on my list.
Have you had any conversations with JCB?
No.
I actually sent one email at some point
to I think his PR person. Mhm. Um but I
have never talked to him.
Mhm.
All right.
I was curious about it. I I'm in the
same state. I'm trying to get an
interview with him and I
it's just communication is with me in a
very
very
briefly written emails in response from
their from his um
handlers.
Um
Most participants never post publicly.
When you think about those silent
searchers, what experience did you most
want them to have?
Oh, the silent searchers. So you mean
posting on social media or
>> No, being part of the discords and
social media and big old YouTube
channels and
What about
>> Well, you know, all things considered
that's the majority of searchers. I get
a lot of emails from people and you
know, of their own accord they mention
I'm not on any social media or I browse
the social media but I never post.
And I get way more emails from those
types of people than the people that are
actually very engaged in social media.
So
um
Yeah, I mean I
I think
um
You know, you think about the Forrest
Fenn treasure hunt and
in retrospect those were the most
dangerous people, right?
>> [laughter]
>> Dangerous as in
competitors. I mean Jack was not much of
a social media guy as I recall. Um maybe
at some point he did he did a little bit
of posting here and there under
pseudonyms and so on. Um
but you know, he was kind of quiet. I
think he kind of came out of nowhere. Um
And so you know, you have to wonder
maybe will that be a similar situation
this treasure hunt? I don't know. I'm
not sure if that answers your questions
but those are probably No, no, no.
I think it does. I think that's a good
answer for it. I have to tell you that I
didn't know it. I never knew it until
after it was bought after the treasure
hunt had ended. He actually called into
our show several times.
>> He did, yeah. And everybody [laughter]
they went
literally started doing
research on all our calling videos to
see what else he had said. And the worst
part about it is I I
you know, I did him the old well, Jack.
He didn't use Jack. He had another name
but
anything is possible, you know.
So I got beat up over that one.
>> [laughter]
>> I thought it was pretty entertaining
actually.
Yeah, so I mean he had actually I think
after that he chose to go and make his
own YouTube video about uh biases. Yeah.
But it's funny to think that if if he
had come on your show that YouTube video
probably never would have existed and
instead he would have talked about it on
your show. Right. Yeah. Well, I was
again I was I was too late to
unsophisticated I was unsophisticated
enough not to realize that he was going
to need some kind of voice even though
he didn't want to have a voice after he
found
the treasure. So Wow. I could have been
better at that as a Tough to judge, you
know, it's hindsight.
What's one misconception you think
people often have about modern treasure
hunts and I'm categorizing them all
together?
Um
The vast majority of people out there I
don't think
maybe even know that they exist.
Um
and
you know, I think just the the anecdotal
experience that I've had is you know,
people will will find out and maybe in
the beginning they'll give you a bit of
a side eye or just kind of a confused
glance.
But for certain personalities I think um
it can suck you in pretty quickly.
And there I think are a lot of what I'd
say converts or people that had
previously had no idea
what this concept even is
and just kind of go head over heels and
dive in and enjoy every moment of it. So
I think that's that's pretty cool.
I was always surprised I was always
surprised about visiting Santa Fe and
I'd bring up the Fenn treasure and how
many people, you know, the vast majority
of people I spoke to had no idea it was
going on.
You know, even though he had been a
gallery owner in Santa Fe.
>> Yeah, yeah. It's very interesting to me.
>> [laughter]
>> Do you have any estimate on how many
people
are looking for your treasure?
I Yeah, I mean I get asked that from
time to time.
Um
you know
So we're we're planning to do a a
get-together in in March called Seeker's
Summit March 27th and 28th in in Tucson.
Mhm. Is M and M and Jam is is that their
>> That's M and Jam's event. They're
running it and you know, I'm one of the
participants. It's a non-denominational
kind of treasure hunt creator event if
you will. So any any creator out there
who'd like to be involved, you know,
contact M and Jam. I'm sure they'd be
more than happy to include you.
Um but that's really the forum I was
planning on
divulging
very accurate statistics but I think in
the interim
at the risk of being slightly off
you know, there's a lot of different
signals that I get
whether it's emails, social media,
anecdotal discussions
talking to Debbie at the bookstore where
people pin their names on the on the map
where they're from, you know, they
travel accordingly. Um
You know, you have to kind of bring all
those data points together. So it's not
just like a function of oh, well, there
were these number of books sold so it
must be this number of people searching.
That's clearly not the case. It's it's a
it's a
It's actually kind of funny that the the
number's a little bit larger than I
anticipated. Um
but you know, my best guess just based
on on everything uh
total
certainly above
active searchers above 10,000 that have
actually gone and searched. Mhm. Um
I wouldn't say it's over 100,000. So
it's between those two numbers. It's
only it's not quite a year old yet. So
that's a pretty good number for a year.
Yeah. So do you have your own version of
the Collected Works bookstore either
locally or in Dillon?
Yeah, so my mother went to high school
with the woman Debbie who owns it's
called The Bookstore
in Dillon, Montana. And um
you know, she just she runs a fantastic
place and she's a fantastic person.
And I think that's probably the closest
equivalent that I I have to a Collected
Works. And you know, they really bent
over backwards in terms of accommodating
the masses that came in you know, when
we had the event up in Dillon, the book
signing. I think we the official number
was somewhere around 1,800 people that
showed up and you know, to a small town
the size of Dillon that was quite the
quite the surprise I think to everybody
myself included.
But yeah, I think the bookstore is is
the place. She's you know, if you're
looking to buy a book I highly recommend
you buy it through Debbie.
You know, she's in a position where I
think she she hopefully still has some
in stock that are signed, you know, if
you're into that sort of thing.
But you know, it's good to support the
local bookstores.
I haven't follow that. I have the one of
the first editions. Have there been
follow-on editions or
you're still good with first?
Yeah, so you know, I I want what was
important to me is
the book was
as accurate as it could be. And so I
maintain an errata page
where if somebody writes in and you
know, they find a mistake,
I will correct it on the errata page.
And so there were
as any book
a number of mistakes that were noted on
the errata page and I felt like it got
to a point where, "Okay, it's starting
to stabilize.
Now's a good time to do a second
printing."
So, it's not really what I call a a
full-on second edition. It's basically,
you know, fixing some minor mistakes
throughout the
the book. And you know, I I It's funny.
I I started thinking about that a little
bit um
the the level of detail that is given or
scrutiny that's given to a a
a treasure hunting book is probably more
so than
maybe any other type of book on the
planet.
And so,
uh
the the chance for someone to find
mistakes in the book I think are
naturally higher because of that extra
scrutiny.
Um but, you know, that that being said,
I feel like it has really stabilized.
There's probably a few few emails that I
haven't gone through yet where people
have mentioned maybe some small things
that that need correction, but for the
most part I think it's stabilized. So,
to answer your question, there's a first
printing and second printing and the
only difference is
some error correction.
Yeah.
At this point, what part of the hunt's
design are you most proud of?
I think the
the part that
I'm most proud of will be most prevalent
after the find and that is the
the verification system that's put in
place and
um
I'm sure that
there's the chance for a mistake, but I
hope that it sets a precedent or another
foundation for how
future verifiable treasure hunts should
be constructed.
Well, that's exciting to look forward
to.
If someone watching tonight is quietly
thinking about creating their own hunt
someday,
what's the one responsibility you'd want
them to fully understand before they
start?
Oh my gosh, it's hard to choose just
one.
Um
Well, give them as much We have We still
I'm I'm a little bit ahead, so give them
as much advice as you want.
Yeah, I mean, there are many things. Um
I mean, one is that
um
you you need to be prepared in all
aspects of your life because
uh people will
will dig and they will try and find
anything and everything to latch onto
uh whether or not to use it for leverage
or otherwise.
Uh you need to decide up front what kind
of treasure hunt creator you're going to
be. Are you going to be the person who
uh has put so much thought and diligence
in it that you can lay it out and walk
away
and just say this is this is what it is
or are you going to have some level of
involvement and if so, how much is that
going to be and you know, to what
capacity?
Um you need to think a lot about the
legal implications.
You need to think a lot about uh
just the logistics of hiding a treasure.
It It sounds simple on page,
but when you actually go and
and execute it, uh it's it can be a lot
harder than it sounds. And I think
especially, you know, when it gets to a
certain value or above,
uh people will go to great lengths to
try and uh
figure out where you were, when you were
there and um
you know, reverse engineer things. And
so,
you know, to to even to travel
in the United States truly anonymously
and privately is a massive feat.
There are so many hurdles
uh
and so,
if you're serious about it, um
there are many sacrifices that are
necessary in order to ensure that
privacy and anonymity while you
you execute and hide it. Uh
I could go on for quite a long time,
sorry. But there there there are a lot
of things that um
you need to consider. And and it's also
just the the post-find
experience, you know, I I There are I
kind of see these high-level stages to a
treasure hunt. There's
there's the um the planning stage.
There's the execution stage of hiding,
but the world doesn't know it yet. And
then there's the announcement.
Then there is the actual treasure hunt
itself and then there is post-find.
And I think, you know, if you look at
most of the modern treasure hunts,
the biggest risk is typically
a post-find.
Um and so, I think there are just a lot
of lessons to learn there. I actually
At some point I wrote a I wrote a paper
about
a theory of of treasure hunting and how
um you could actually put some
and some kind of boring mathematical
constructs in place in order to make it
better.
Uh I haven't released it yet. I actually
at some point I I ended up sending it
into a journal, but I don't I don't know
if they've even reviewed it yet or
something. Maybe at some point I'll put
it on the website or something. I just I
didn't want to put it in the book
because I felt like
you know, I mean, it it might be a
little
overwhelming for for some people and
it's it's not very approachable. It's
more of like a you know, a a core
um research paper
and uh a lot of you know, technical
terms and boring mumbo jumbo in it. So,
I might I might publish it at some
point, but um
there's a lot to consider. We'll say
that.
Well, if you ever need anybody to review
it for errata, please send it to me.
>> Yeah,
maybe I'll do that.
>> [laughter]
>> All right, I'm at my last question and
I've made it before our 1-hour time
limit. I'm very grateful for that, but I
do want to spend a couple of minutes
talking about
the ASI because you asked about it. Last
question.
If there is one thing you hope searchers
take away from this experience
regardless of outcome,
what is it?
The experience of the interview? No, the
experience of your treasure hunt. Oh. If
there is one thing you hope searchers
take away from the treasure hunt
experience regardless of outcome,
what is it?
I think that if you've been out
searching,
you know, you you've had an adventure
and you reflect on it,
uh
uh don't
don't lose that feeling, you know,
whether it's wonder or captivation or
maybe something that you might have lost
from your youth.
Um
that's a pretty powerful thing and I
think the world needs more of that. And
so, I would urge people to
uh remind themselves how that how they
felt
in that setting, you know, on the verge
of a great discovery and
think about how maybe you can contribute
to the world to give people
um something in return that
might be similar to to that experience
because it was so valuable to you.
I remember doing a an AGK show uh
mid-treasure hunt probably around 2017,
2018 on filling up a 5-gallon bucket
with water and saying explaining to
people this is how heavy
Forrest claims his treasure weighs and
why he had to make two trips. How many
gallon 5-gallon buckets does your
treasure weigh?
>> [laughter]
>> We'd have to do a little off-the-cuff
math here, but uh
you know, I I the entirety of the
treasure is about I think I mentioned 60
lb.
Uh so, it's you know, it's not
it's not light and it's certainly more
than one 5-gallon bucket, so
>> if it's 60 lb, it is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
All right, I'm at my last question and
I've made it before our 1 hour time
limit. I'm very grateful for that, but I
do want to spend a couple of minutes
talking about uh
that you had seen our show on the AGK
solve ASI AGK solvability index and you
had some comments on it and I'd love to
hear those comments.
Yeah, I mean, first off I thought that
was a remarkable idea. I really like the
concept of having some sort of scoring
or index system that helps guide people
toward a treasure hunt that would make
sense for them and and you know, whether
it's physical limitations or just their
interests in general. Uh that's really
cool. Um
and I think the
uh I think one aspect of that index was
you know, how much time are you spending
boots on the ground and and being out
there. And I
that's the part that I I actually I
don't know
enough about John Collins' Black's
treasure to say
um how much time he truly expects you to
be
in the wilderness and and and searching
for it. Um
but I think that's kind of an
to my uncertain [clears throat]
knowledge, that might be an unanswered
question
for um
uh for his treasure hunts. And for mine,
it's um
I mean, there certainly is a component
of being boots on the ground,
uh but
not to the point of doing the drudgery
of of
um grid searching or anything like that.
And so,
yeah, I mean, I think that every
treasure hunt creator has to have that
balance. Like, you know, is it
I think the only way you could truly
have an armchair treasure hunt I guess
would be, you know, you solve something
and you come up with an answer where you
don't leave your armchair or you don't
leave it until uh
you know, you you have say an exact GPS
coordinate. Those are probably
uh like at one extreme, you know, in
terms of how much time you're going to
spend outdoors versus
you know, Forrest, which was actually a
lot of outdoor time. And so, I like to
think that mine
uh
uh lands more in the middle
or maybe uh
maybe even slightly more
armchair, not all the way. I mean, you
need to be out in the woods. Uh
But yeah, I'd love I'd love to see how
the index
computes uh if you have the opportunity
to talk to JCB and and kind of get some
clarity there
and and see what the index says. I'd I'd
be curious to see. I'm actually going to
use it as a reason to try and convince
him to come on the program so we can
have a very similar interview, you know,
the time program. Yeah. I've got some
questions for him, too. But it it piqued
my curiosity from an analyst's
perspective. I'm sure it piques yours
from the engineering perspective because
it it kind of travels up that uh that
little side of our our brain. So
>> Well, that's a great idea. I think
whoever um who hasn't seen the show, I I
urge [clears throat] you to go and see
Toby's show about the the ASI cuz I
think it's a a neat rubric for
treasure hunts.
So, uh before I let you go, I want to
say thank you very much for joining me
tonight and I I hope that you'll stay
just long enough so that we can uh close
out the show. There are a couple of
things I want to say before I go.
Um one is uh again, for those of you
that have um
super chatted uh this program, I'm very
grateful for that and I'm sorry I didn't
have the time or the partner necessary
to say thank you as they were doing
that, but I want you to know that I'm
grateful. That's the first money
uh we have earned since we shut down
back in 2020 because I just recently
became monetized again. So, thank you
very much for that. The second thing is
I am developing an application called
Field Notes Pro. It's designed uh it
started to design as uh for the treasure
hunter, but then I realized it could
work for anybody from an archaeologist
to a surveyor to a treasure hunter. And
I'm looking for five or 10 people with
um
And Android phones and five or 10 people
with uh
um
um
iPhones, smartphone uh uh
Apple phones who can uh test it for me
over about uh 2 week to 1 month period.
And if you're interested, please send an
email to a gypsy's kiss at gmail.com.
You'll see it up in the scroll bar uh up
above. Any last words before we close
out uh the session, Justin?
No, I just I appreciate your time, Toby,
and thanks for having me on the show.
I'm grateful. I'm very grateful that you
agreed to join me tonight and I hope um
the questions uh did justice to um your
treasure hunt and you as an individual
because I have a great deal respect for
you. And I can't tell you how pleased I
was when I saw that you had I knew it
was going to be when I saw that you had
created a treasure hunt, I knew how good
it was going to be.
Uh because I know what you had you what
you personally could do with it. So,
thanks very much. Well, don't let it
lose sound.
>> [laughter]
>> I'm sure it's going to be fine. For
those of you that joined us tonight, I
hope you got out of the show what you
wanted. Uh we did our best to make sure
it was a good and thoughtful
conversation and I think that's easy
when you have a guest like Justin.
Um we're going to close out here and I
expect that some at some point we'll
probably publish a transcript so that
you have access to that as uh well. All
right?
Um Justin, stay through the outro and um
and we can say our good nights, okay?
Sounds great. Good night, you all.
Thanks for joining us tonight. I really
appreciate it.
Thanks for joining us for this
conversation with Justin Posey.
Tonight wasn't about answers or
shortcuts. It was about understanding
the intent, care, and responsibility
that go into creating a modern treasure
hunt.
As always
the meaning of a hunt isn't just in
what's found
but in how it's experienced and shared.
If you found value in this discussion,
please like, subscribe, and share. And
if you're part of the hunt, engage
thoughtfully, search responsibly, and
respect the process.
I'm Erica Ray. I'll see you on the
trail.
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>> So welcome everybody. Tonight we have a
very special guest. Although I think all
of our guests are very special, but
tonight I think you may
know who he is. He is the author of um
Beyond the Maps Edge and also
um the creator of of the uh treasure
hunt. Um and you can find him on trea-
treasure.quest
and he also is on Golden Greed. So
welcome Justin.
Thank you. I appreciate you guys having
me on the show. Yeah, we appreciate you
on here and um
for our regular viewers you probably are
noticing something different. Laura is
sitting next to me.
Uh we had some technical difficulties,
so bear with us.
But the show must go on. So
>> The show must go on.
So um Laura's going to sort of kick this
one off and then um then I'll be joining
her. So Laura, take it away. Yeah,
thanks so much Eric and Justin. We're so
excited to have some time to spend with
you tonight. Um
and to dive into your journey and your
story and your book and the impact that
it's had on all of us. So so thanks for
coming on. Well, it was a delight to
meet you guys in Vegas and I'm I'm happy
to be on the show. Yeah, yeah, it was so
fun to meet you in person first. That is
not often the case when we're talking
with someone. But so admittedly I'm
going to confess that I picked up your
book for the first time about a week and
a half ago.
And so we have been very focused on TTI
for you know almost a well a little over
a year now. And so while I was certainly
aware we had watched Golden greed we I
hadn't yet dug into your book. It was
sitting on our shelf.
And
my
admiration for your writing my
experience in the book has been
absolutely incredible. Like your way
with words blew my mind. I'm a reader. I
love I love research. I love digging in.
I love the artistry of words and I have
to say
well well done. Like
extremely well done with
the writing. I mean that's very kind of
you to say. It would have been far worse
off had it not been for my editor
extraordinaire Matt DeMoss. But I
appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
>> Yeah, well you know, it's the stories
number one. But it is also the crafting
of the words and I would imagine
although you had an editor much of this
came from you. I took down a number of
my favorite quotes and I was hoping we
could use these as a springboard to talk
a little bit about your story if you
don't mind.
That sounds like a great plan. Okay,
because initially here's one that stuck
with me.
Anyone who can talk about an oil change
and use je ne sais quoi in the same
paragraph?
Like what's with that Justin?
>> [laughter]
>> Well, you know, it's kind of like
putting lipstick on a pig. I just
for whatever reason I just that story
had had had stuck out in my mind for a
number of years and I
I I
you know, I think everybody has stories
in their life that are worth telling and
I encourage everybody at some point. I
think everyone should try and write a
bit of a memoir. It's just a very
interesting experience to to undertake.
But yeah, for that story in particular,
you know, it's a
only so much you can do with it, but
[laughter]
appreciate that. It was an incredible
little tale. Every single one of these
vignettes, I mean the way that you
painted your chara what I, you know,
maybe say as characters but really your
family members, your friends, the people
who've had an influence on your life,
your mom, your dad, your grandparents.
My goodness, what a beautiful tribute to
their lives as well.
So, you know, a couple of the chapters
that had quotes that literally I was
laughing out loud every few minutes. Um,
the Gracie Grail was a great one, I
thought. Um,
you were talking about how a castle
eloped with a yard sale. This place that
looked like they've been arranged by a
caffeinated raccoon who watched one too
many episodes of Antiques Roadshow. It's
brilliant. It's brilliant. Well, if
you've ever been to Gracie's, you'd
understand. It is It is It is quite the
scene. Yeah. And you know, I I I think
what I appreciate most about Gracie's is
how little it's changed. It does feel
like it's just stuck in time. Yeah.
Almost to a point where it's uncanny. I
I I I really enjoy spending time there
and it's Every time I go, I find a
a different nook or cranny to explore
that I just didn't even realize was
there before. Yeah.
So, Gracie's, you know, set is the
setting for one of these chapters. But
one of the things that stuck with me
about Gracie's in particular is we talk
about them a map, right? A map that
influence
kind of your perspectives, I think, on
treasure hunting. You said, "When I
unfold the map now, I understand what
guided the cartographer's trembling
hand, the same force that filled
Gracie's shelves, the same fever that
keeps me hunting, this desperate belief
that we can somehow catch time in a
collected net of things."
And I love that. So, talk to me a bit
about
I mean, we we read through your story,
the genesis of treasure hunting way back
when you're a kid and how that all
evolved.
And then throughout kind of your growth,
your story,
it becomes
a tale of humanity, of the lives lived,
the people that you intersect with, the
experiences. And I think that's one of
the things I love about that quote is we
see it getting bigger than
individual stories. We see the thread
pulling through all of it. Was that your
hope as you set out to write this book
that we could all enjoy? I mean, it's so
much more than a treasure hunt. The
treasure, you know, he's going to hit
that, is an incredible part, but this is
such a
a wonderful legacy.
>> [snorts]
>> You know, it's really interesting that
you put it this way. I mean, I I I've
had a lot of people write to me and I've
spoken with a lot of people that have
been enjoyed the book. Uh
but, I don't think anyone
uh has articulated it quite the way that
you had. And that's actually precisely
what I had in mind. So, I I I appreciate
the observation. You know, that that
quote in particular, I think
my goal was to resonate with a fellow
collector. You know, and I I think the
collectors of the world would say that
uh
you know, it's root that is that is
part of the impetus for collecting is is
to try and
uh freeze time and to
to be a part of history at at a whole
different level than just reading about
it.
Uh and I think that tangible aspect
really strikes a chord with with so many
people and
uh I have to wonder if that maybe is the
basis of a lot of uh
uh maybe people that become hoarders
over time is kind of this uh
um maybe going into obsessive territory
about trying to
uh
yeah, freeze time. It's an interesting
concept to me, but yeah, thank you.
Yeah. Yeah, [clears throat] absolutely.
So, obsessing, because you said it, I'm
going to ask. You have this incredible
personality that dials in on a focus and
is unrelenting to let go of it from my
observation from the book. You set your
mind to something and you are full on
into it. Um and we see that throughout
your you know, your growing up years and
then
>> base. Yeah. And then
>> [laughter]
>> Which I may talk may or may not talk
about later. Right. Um so, talk to me
about you know, how
how that has served you well and for
those of us who tend to do that
equally
how sometimes maybe you have to try to
step back from it.
Yeah, I think maybe a a a software
developer would say they're not sure if
this is a feature or a bug, but it is a
a core part of my identity um
and I've just found time and again that
there are certain topics that tend to
draw me in and everything else just kind
of becomes noise that I tune out and
you know, most recently it's actually
been with the the company that I started
and I just I felt like there was a a
need to be met there and here I am. So,
it's just it's I think it's something
that has
uh
been ingrained in me from a very young
age and there's probably a couple
different reasons for that. One is
maybe there's a genetic component to it,
I don't know, uh but certainly
environment. I you know, all the the
strong figures in my life have been
incredibly hard workers.
Uh and it just
it's strange to think because
you know, when I was very young I
thought, "Wow, my my dad is the hardest
worker I've ever known."
Uh but the more I got to go know my my
grandparents, it's like, "Wow, those are
the those they work even harder." And
it's so I just it's like this strange
combination. I have to wonder like three
generations back. Gosh, I can't imagine,
but
uh I like to think that maybe they
worked even harder than that. So, it
just
um probably something that was instilled
in me from a a pretty young age. Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, I can't help but ask
and think to myself as I'm reading
through the chapters,
what is hidden amongst these stories
that I need to be taking note of if I
want to be successful in the hunt. Now,
you know, I think there's an approach
and people have likely asked you this
before, but I'm again coming into it a
little bit of a blank slate. Um you
know, we know that the poem which Eric
will likely talk about in a little while
is critical, but as we're thinking about
the narrative
and some of the things that you're
talking about throughout that, should we
be tuning into
anything in particular? I don't want you
to give me clues cuz we are going to
figure it out on our own, but is that a
critical part of coming to an
understanding of you and this hunt?
Uh I think it is true to say that there
are certain
uh
whether you you it themes or
frequencies or
uh
certain aspects that I think are
are very key to the treasure hunt. Mhm.
Uh of course I can't call them out
specifically, but
>> Right.
I think um I think you guys are having
some good thoughts.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I love
that you say rules are merely starting
points of negotiation
and a well-placed loophole is worth its
weight in weeples, right? That was a
great story, by the way. Yes, that was
amazing story. And And you
touch on periodically kind of this
having to be willing to go
and to find a way around, you know, to
think outside of the boundaries.
Um do you feel like that is a
a trait that's necessary for someone to
be a successful treasure hunter?
Well, I have to be a little little
cautious in this answer. So, my mom
always said I'd make a great attorney.
Um [laughter]
I
I don't know, I think there's
[clears throat] there's a saying about
this when
you know, uh
arguing with an attorney is like
wrestling with a pig. After the first
hour, you start to realize the pig likes
it. Uh I I like the act of arguing. I
think it's um
I think it's really interesting. Not
that I'm, you know, just I'm
an aggressive or argumentative person,
but I just I like the merits of an
argument in order to uncover deeper
truths. Um
Now, I'm certainly by no means saying
that people need to go and break the law
or anything like that in order to
uh to find the treasure, but uh I think
I thinking outside of the box is
is valuable.
Yeah. Yeah, and I was certainly not
inferring we are breaking the law, nor
doing anything dangerous. I mean,
because that is a risk, right? When
you're putting a hunt out there for
people, asking people to get out into
the wilderness and be searching.
Um a risk that people won't be cautious
and and follow the guidance that you've
given. Certainly you having a great
familiar familiarity with the outdoors
and still having these bear encounters
that actually have me terrified about
going out.
>> [laughter]
>> Well, that's exactly that's it.
So, talk to me about your um
your guidance about safety.
And how it you know
as you were putting your hunt together
did that strike you in a certain way
that you might be encouraging people to
go out and do things that I mean, we
know with Forrest Fenn's there was
tragedy, right?
Now, before you answer that, remember
you're talking to a safety certified
safety professional here.
And I do applaud the fact that you did
put all these you know, guidelines in
there or not
more directives, right? Because um you
know, managing people in a
um controlled environment in the
workplaces is a can can be challenging
enough.
But when you put things out to the world
it's even um harder as we saw during the
pandemic you know, so to speak, right?
So, how how was that you know
Yeah, um you know, I think Forrest
treasure hunt was a a good case study.
And
I appreciated it in the sense that I
think growing up in the outdoors and and
having that experience often times
can lead you to take
take for granted
what a lot of people that haven't had
that experience, uh how they experience
it. So, I think it's so important to to
keep that in mind when you're you're
putting together something like a
treasure hunt where you're encouraging
people to do what might be uncomfortable
things for them.
And education is such a foundational
component of that.
And you know, I I dedicated I think
pretty much a full chapter in the book
to talk about the things that can go
wrong
and and to kind of use it as a a guide
or a lesson for people to understand
that you need to be prepared for a lot
of different things in the wilderness
because it is not
forgiving.
And
you know, the weather changes on a dime.
You get excited, you might go further
than you planned on going and over
preparation really is the name of the
game. And I think the biggest the
biggest
I wouldn't call it wisdom by any means,
but the
the biggest tidbit of information that I
could provide is if you're uncomfortable
with the wilderness, go with somebody
that is comfortable. That has spent a
lot of time doing these outdoor
activities.
It's worth it's worth your time and
effort to find up somebody like that
because it's a great mentor and it's a
good checks and balances system. I mean,
I know that there are people that are
searching for the treasure that have
gone out solo.
And that's okay,
but that's just another case where you
need to be even more prepared than you
would with a partner.
So, you know, a lifeline is is really
critical in these situations.
Yeah, because we know we've been boots
on the ground for for John's
treasure going on and it's a whole
different world when you get out there.
You know, as soon as you step into the
the woods,
you know,
there's a lot of lot of things that
could go wrong even on a relatively I
mean, there there is no routine, you
know,
hike or anything. You you always have
something to worry about, whether it be
you know, wildlife or or even slipping
on a rock or or something like that. Cuz
you're out there open, you know, or
you're out far away from any type More
likely than not, you won't have cell
service and if something happens and
you're a mile or two out there, um you
know, it could it could be pretty dicey.
It's true and you see these stories of
people like they'll just wander off, you
know, and not more than 100 ft off say
the Appalachian Trail and
it's really easy to get turned around
out there and it can have dire
consequences. I mean, I've I've
embarrassed myself plenty of times. I've
you know, I I'd
go out to an area and say, you know,
with my
uh vehicle and park it somewhere and I
wouldn't go very far, turn around and
like, where did I park? And you know, it
takes some time to track it down and you
can actually be remarkably close and not
even realize it. So, it's it's a it's a
real danger and you can't always rely on
on cell service to save you. Yeah.
>> Yeah, that's a good point. That is the
truth.
Um so, I have a couple two more topics,
I think, or a couple more quotes that I
wanted to hit and then I'm going to turn
it over to Eric for some of his content.
But, um in the chapter called or in the
section called The Treasure, you say,
"The ultimate puzzle I discovered wasn't
one to be solved with a map or decoder
ring, but with an open heart
and willingness to venture into the
unknown, embracing the journey for its
own sake with all its twists, turns, and
the inevitable dead ends." Um which I
thought was very poignant,
for sure.
And it made me curious about your
experience as a hunter, a treasure
hunter versus your experience as the
creator of the hunt and now sitting back
and kind of observing the hunt and kind
of
how that plays out in terms of that
kind of deeper existential connection
that you're referring to here I think.
I think the best treasure hunt creators
come from people that were treasure
hunters themselves. It's I really think
you have to have that that in-depth full
arc experience beginning to end of a
treasure hunt
in order to really
pull off something that that makes sense
for for people to search for.
Uh and I I certainly had that
experience. I'm certainly by no means a
treasure hunt creator expert. Uh I don't
know if there is such a thing. Yeah. I
such a strange term to me. I don't
really
identify as a creator per se. I mean, I
guess that is the correct term, but
at this point I think I'm
I'm fairly convinced I make a much
better treasure hunter than than
treasure hunt creator. Right. [laughter]
Mainly because I mean it's it's probably
fair to say I I enjoy the hunting a
little bit more than the uh than the
hiding. Uh
but yeah, I mean I I
I don't know. I I'm trying to think
about how I could expand on this. I At
its core it's um
um
what I wanted to impart
on
uh into people is that um
I had I had an experience and
I hope that they get even a fraction of
the experience that I had because that
alone I think is
is worth it to me and I and I hope it's
worth it to them as well. Yeah. Yeah.
That's fantastic. All right, my last
thing on my list that I really wanted to
talk about was Tucker
because
A I cried at the end. We are such dog
people and um Hence our logo. Yeah.
Um that's our dog Biscuit
Who is right here at my feet. And
um
You know, you talk in a couple different
places about the connection that you
guys had. Um as we drove home, the
landscape blurring past our windows, I
couldn't shake the feeling that we
stumbled upon the edge of something
vast. It wasn't about the bronze
or even the feat of canine olfactory
prowess. It was about communication,
trust, and that peculiar alchemy that
occurs when two species come together in
pursuit of a shared goal.
And so, I loved that integration of him
into your hunt and that experience you
had together.
Um so,
I just want to hear more because I I'm
just not ready to let him go out of the
story in my mind yet because I was right
there. He was with you for some time,
hm? How long did you have Tucker?
Yeah, I got Tucker, I think it was in
2012, and he was really a core part of
the search experience from from day one.
You know, he
he had more responsibility, if you will,
over time, you know, by virtue of his
training and
and I think him becoming more invested
in it in his own way.
Uh but yeah, I look back on that, and I
I honestly cannot say who had a better
time
out searching, me or him. Uh and I think
that's that's the way it should be.
Uh
I yeah, I'm a dog person through and
through, and [clears throat] uh
uh I feel like there's a lot of dogs in
in households out there that could
probably use more adventure themselves.
And so, I like to think that this is um
something that's available for all forms
of life,
not just the humans. Yeah, right? Yeah.
Have you found a new friend that has
come into your world?
Uh no, I am
So, we I I have a cat. His name is is
Woody and he's he's a good around the
house companion, you know, he likes to
hang out on the porch and so on. Uh
but in terms of like, you know, an
outdoor adventure partner
I think it it takes time you know, to
find the
find the right fit and
uh yeah, the right the right time.
So, on that note, if we were hunting
with Biscuit our dog and he loves to
come on the trails with us. He has He is
a scent hound and he cannot let go of
the scent. Um would and we were looking
for your particular treasure, would we
be able to bring him with us? Is it in
an accessible to dogs place?
Uh that's
uh that's been a question posed a number
of times. Um
>> [clears throat]
>> So, the reason I generally hesitate to
answer these types of questions is just
general volatility. Like if rules change
in the future, people look back on this
and say, "Well, you said it at this
time." and it's like, "Well, it was true
right now, but things can change."
Um you know, but to the best of of my
knowledge, there shouldn't be
uh
anything that should preclude a canine
companion from from joining you on the
treasure hunt. All right. Thank you for
sharing that.
>> Yeah, that's great because uh we have
run into instances where there's no dogs
allowed on different trails and
we just love taking them and if we can
we and and we can drive the distance,
you know, I think our limit's usually up
to like 10 hours just for the sake of
time and and and things like that. We do
like taking them, but
you know, if we take a longer vacation,
we have the longer trips with them, you
know, and just found a place to stay
that that accepted dogs cuz he loves
I think our first boots on the ground,
you know, he he was still a pup and he
really did well. So.
Yeah, it's I I
I I think dogs can enhance the journey
in in so many ways. I mean, and of
course there's
as you're mentioning like a certain
level of responsibility when you get out
there with safety with animals, too. Uh
I mean, especially if you have something
like a bear encounter. Um
You know,
I like to think that most people know
their dogs pretty well, but there are
certain personalities that can, you
know, take off off after a rabbit, never
look back.
So, yeah, I mean, I think
that is another thing to consider as you
bring your your pets out into the
wilderness is safety for them as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we always keep
him on leash just for that fact.
>> We don't trust him yet. [clears throat]
The nose He's not quite that old. He's
not yet a year, so. You know, I think I
actually built an insecurity into Tucker
in retrospect, and then I I think it
really started when
I mean, when he was very young, I'd take
him out on the trails in Washington
state, and
um
I we would just play this hide-and-seek
game, and he really took to that. But it
also, I think in a way,
it wasn't me looking after him, it was
him looking after me because he'd
wonder, "When am I going to go hide?"
And so, it was you know, in retrospect,
maybe it sounds a little diabolical, but
he uh you know, I think it was a bit of
an insecurity where he really wanted to
keep tabs on me cuz he knew that I could
go and hide at any point, and he'd have
to track me down. So, he he liked that
game a lot, and I think that kind of
pulled double-duty in the sense that he
was more responsible.
Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's
great. Unintended outcome, maybe, but it
worked. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, we've
started talking about the hunt. Do you
want to kind of switch gears to that
rather than biography per se?
>> Yeah, I would I had some, you know,
things that
you know, interest me that I would like
to know. You know, you
You obviously you started out as
treasure
right? I mean you you you named it in
your book. You were
going out to the missile bases, almost
getting put in the
in the hole because you wandered off.
I thought was brilliant by the way. I
probably wouldn't have the courage to
pull that off, so kudos to you.
There's a There's a fine line between
courage and stupidity, so I don't know
where I lie on that spectrum.
>> [laughter]
>> But you know, that treasure hunter to
treasure designer transition, you know,
we we sort of talked about that earlier.
You know, what How did that How did that
process sort of come to fruition? At
what point did you make that decision
that I am I'm going to hide a treasure
after this?
Yeah, I mean I I I know I'm not alone in
this regard in the sense that there were
many people searching for Forrest's
treasure who felt that if they found it,
they would want to
you know, pay it forward in some way and
and re-hide it or at least a portion of
it.
And I was I was one of those people.
Uh but it just it was just pretty wild
how it all came together at the end. And
I think probably more than anything it
was just sheer willpower in order to
make it work.
Um
I'm trying to recall the exact moment
where I solidified this thinking and I
I think it was when I think it was in
the maybe the only
conversation over the
I guess I had a few conversations over
the phone with with Jack Stuef, the the
the Forrest Fenn treasure finder. Uh but
it was in one of those conversations
where
it really solidified it for me. And it's
actually kind of strange now that I look
back on it, but it was something he said
that struck
me.
And
it was that he is not a collector
and he had no interest in
the physical treasure. You know, it was
it was
it was monetary which I can understand.
Uh
but a part of me it just
really got to me and I started thinking
about this and it goes back to you know,
where we were talking about Gracies and
collecting things and
I think I got worried in that moment
that maybe
gosh, is this a generational thing? Like
are we are are we trending toward more
uh you know, more transient existence
where we are not as
you know, fettered with with physical
items or what is this? You know, cuz it
was so foreign to me so I'm very much
the opposite.
And so I guess maybe a part of it was
uh
trying to freeze time in my own way and
say that there is
there's something out there worth
searching for.
Uh
and now I mean in terms of dates I don't
recall I'm actually really bad with
dates but it was it was during
negotiations where I was talking about
buying the full Fenn treasure. Yeah.
Yeah, no I find it odd that
you know, somebody would get into
treasure hunting just for the money and
I know that
at first it might sound well, why else
would you know,
holistically would sound like that but
although we all think we would get it
and by confirmation of him getting it it
it did work out for him but that is not
the
the norm.
You know, I mean honestly you probably
would have a greater chance at you know,
gambling or or a lottery or something
like that. I mean
not to say that you can't find it and it
shouldn't but I guess my what my point
is that you know, to to us at least cuz
we're new to this. I mean yeah, when I
was a kid, I would
I grew up by the woods. Although, the
woods weren't that vast, to me it was.
And, you know, finding, you know, a
you know, abandoned car that was
stripped and burnt out in the woods was
like finding a pirate ship that was, you
know, washed upon the shore.
You know, and, you know, so so that
component was was always there.
So,
you know, and also through this whole
experience,
um you know,
back up a little bit. What I What I
generally tell people is that
you know, we If you were to find a
treasure, that would be great. You would
have the monetary aspect of it.
And, um and it would be exciting, but
that will sort of fade out. Whether the
the excitement of it will fade out.
And, you'll eventually spend it, um you
know, depending on the person.
And then it is gone. Whereas,
you know, the experiences we felt along
the way, and this is why we continue to
pursue it and and
now doing your stuff as well,
is is not only the friendships you meet,
but
how it
sort of changes the trajectory of of
your path. I mean,
I'll be 53 this year, and
you know, I would never have thought my
life would have taken this drastic of a
direction or change.
Now, I mean,
in my whole life, this is probably the
one of the biggest influences that it's
been on me.
Um you know, so to
to sort of minimize it by saying, "Well,
I'm just doing it for the treasure." I
mean,
you know, it's sort of like planning
your retirement when you're 10, right?
Um you may think you want to be a
professional video game player, uh
Pac-Man or whatever, but you know,
that's your 10-year-old brain saying it,
right? And then when you get older and
I don't know. Anyway.
>> So, the joy in the journey and his where
you're going. The joy in the journey.
So, I I would love to hear a bit more
for
from you about what was your motivation.
So, we know that his was, man, I'm going
to get a payout if I find this. What was
your initial motivation for getting into
the Forrest Fenn hunt?
I I I think a a a well-constructed
treasure hunt is is is the encapsulation
of dreams and hopes. And
it is something that is
um rare in today's world. Uh
and so for me
I think it's different for each person.
And for me, it was
just this
a very perfect storm or catalyst of all
these components coming together. I
mean,
certainly you can't ignore the monetary
aspect. That might be, you know, the the
initial catalyst for some people.
Um but I think for many it it becomes
more and they don't realize it in the
beginning.
Uh but uh it does.
And and by more, I mean, for me, it was
it was a grand puzzle.
It was um
a true challenge that
is the intersection between mind and
body.
Uh you really get that full
featured experience where you're
engaging the mind while you're out
searching physically
and and truly thinking about your
surroundings as opposed to just moving
through them. I mean, I think I some
point I mentioned this concept of uh
uh lantern vision where
you know, when you move through an
environment, it's like the lantern is
moving with you and you're just seeing
what's in your
in your vicinity. And that actually can
be uh I think that's something we lose
over time. When you're a kid and you
walk around every corner, it's new and
you're not accustomed to it and your
mind doesn't have that, uh,
um,
that that that mold kind of built in
where you just filter.
And the lack of filtering is is such an
interesting way to look at the world and
I'm sure, you know, if you probably took
a bunch of mushrooms or something, you'd
probably get the same effect, but
uh, I like to think that uh, treasure
hunting can can kind of uh, compete with
that in the sense that it it forces you
to look at the world differently. And I
think there's a lot of power behind
that.
Yeah, I think I think it strips the
filters that we get when we become an
adult and have to put some of those
filters on whether be our job or
whatever like that.
Right.
>> and it and and then we can't see uh, the
things that uh, once inspired us and and
you know, as as when we're younger.
That's a great way of putting it.
Completely agree.
>> [laughter]
>> So when when you started this then, so
obviously this this was a big change for
you. You went from treasure hunter to
again, treasure creator. You know, did
that Were there any components of that
that really
um, surprised you? Like maybe um, the
preparation of the logistics of it,
putting things together, the legal
aspect, things like that.
You know, I I spent the better part of
of a decade in my career at the Walt
Disney Company and a core part of that
tenure was
crafting an experience for guests, a
story. And I think anyone could go and
make a ride.
Um, but to create an environment that
surrounds that ride and something that
tells a story, I think is really the key
to
at least historically to the Walt Disney
Company's success.
And so I wanted to have
that feeling about the treasure hunt.
Where it's not just oh, you go and get
it. Like there's
there's something more to it.
Um
so that was that was a piece of it. Um
but there's always surprises along the
way.
I mean it is the modern era. It's not as
romantic as going and
you know, putting a
treasure somewhere on the ground and
walking away.
Um it's just not the world we live in.
So
there were certainly a lot of legal
aspects and so on to consider.
Uh but I'm I'm trying to think back on
it to say what was the most surprising
to me. Well, one was
writing a book is hard.
>> [laughter]
>> I'll leave that to the professionals
moving forward cuz
I was you know, I mean there were some
chapters that I think went went together
pretty quickly but others that took
uh
an extraordinary amount of time.
And uh
a lot of iterating.
And so it's I I just I do not envy uh
those writers that have to sit there day
in and day out and and and crank
something out. I mean it's it's a real
gift.
Uh so that one was surprising to me. I
guess going in I thought oh, I can you
know, I can crank out a book, you know,
but it's it's hard. And then uh the
other thing that was probably
probably difficult was just kind of
coordination to make sure that
everything goes as smoothly as you as
you hope it will. And there's just so
many aspects to that whether it's, you
know, logistics or supply chain for for
books. I mean even something as as
seemingly simple as like well, you know,
what publishing path do I take
when you create a book can have a
tremendous impact on uh first
impressions. Uh you know, you've seen uh
some treasure hunts where oh my gosh,
there's a you know, supply chain
interruption right away and then people
are waiting months for a book.
Uh, mine certainly doesn't arrive
overnight, but generally speaking it's
been a pretty steady supply chain.
Uh, but those things are not
are not easy. Uh,
and actually some of the technology
components were a little little
challenging too. For instance, um,
gosh, what was it? I
I wanted to cater toward independent
booksellers.
But, uh, I kind of wanted to have my
cake and eat it, too. I wanted to cater
to them,
but also not create a bottleneck where,
uh, you know, they become the the supply
chain pinch point.
Uh, and I actually wanted to, uh, cut
out the big box guys entirely, like
Amazon and all that. And so,
>> Good for you. Uh, yeah, that's actually
what I did initially was, you know, the
way to get to the book was actually uh,
side-stepping all those guys.
And it actually meant, you know, I had
to
I had to create, you know, a whole like
payment platform and all sorts of
components, you know, basically redoing
what AW or Amazon does, which was
a little ambitious. And it worked okay.
It's just, um, it's a lot to manage and
I just didn't have the time. And so, at
the end of the day it was, uh, more of a
compromise that I had to make there, but
yeah, I mean, I I could probably talk
about that. Sorry to bore you guys. I
mean, I could probably talk about it for
days. There's just a lot of interesting
things that come up that you just take
for granted, yeah. Yeah. So, you know,
um,
excuse me.
So, when you, um,
where was I going with this?
Um,
gosh, I lost my train of thought now.
Yeah, I was going to jump in with a
question.
>> [laughter]
>> No, no, not only did you, you know, you
you said creating a book is hard. I'm
sorry about that.
Um, I'm I'm off kilter a little bit
because you're sitting right by me. I
am.
>> [laughter]
>> You know, You know, you know, not only
creating a book is but creating a
treasure book, right? So, it's one thing
to sit down and you're writing
you know, uh a fictional story or just
some reference book, but you have to now
factor in
I got to put some clues in here.
Right? Well, you think about all the
different types of or genres of books in
the world and the scrutiny
that is given to them.
And I think I'd be hard-pressed to think
about another type of book that gets as
much scrutiny as a treasure hunt book.
Yeah. And uh
you know, I mean, I frankly, I thought I
had it pretty dialed in and very quickly
people were finding genuine mistakes.
And the you know, I was committed to
transparency through an errata page
where people could go and say, you know,
like I made an honest mistake here.
Don't waste time on this component.
Here's a correction.
And that page grew and I I
it was uh I mean, it was slightly
embarrassing for me in the sense that
it's like, well, I I mean, there were
more errors than I really wanted there
to be. I and I felt like when it kind of
started to stabilize, I put out a second
printing to to correct that stuff, but
uh yeah, you're I mean, there's a lot of
scrutiny given to treasure hunting
books, no doubt. Yeah, indeed. Yeah, so
you know,
you know, you want to design this book
for the masses, right? You wanted to
make it approachable for for a large
group of
of of people um ranging from your
extreme novice first-time treasure
hunters to
people that's been doing it for 10 or 20
years. You know, at the con, I I
Treasure Con, I got to talk to some
amazing minds that like, yeah, I've been
treasure hunting for 20 years. I'm like,
oh jeez, you know, you don't have to
talk to me.
>> [laughter]
>> I'll have you on my show, but you you
know, that thing. So, how did you
balance that level of complexity?
Because that that I'm sure had to be
difficult. Then you had to contend with
AI as you as well, right?
Yeah, maybe I'm kind of
over over playing the card around the
the Disney analogy, but
you know, it's like when you
if you're a a
a a seasoned
roller coaster rider
uh or if it's your first roller coaster
uh
the roller coaster
Disneyland and World
is unique and it has enough of like a a
story surrounding it and a feeling of
surrounding it that I think both people
have the potential to get equal joy from
that experience.
Uh and I wanted to do the same thing
with this treasure hunt where it doesn't
matter if you've been searching for
treasure your entire life or you just
you know, heard about it on Facebook one
day and just
decided to dive in. Uh I really wanted I
really wanted as much as as feasible to
have a level playing field where no one
felt like they they were at a serious
disadvantage because they just decided
to jump in last minute.
Yeah.
So, what what type of person do you do
you ever think about, you know, you you
put the treasure out there, you know,
what what type of person do you think
would would in your mind do you envision
being the one that finds this, right?
Yeah, that was a fun exercise I went
through. I actually
right before the the treasure hunt was
released. It was after I had hidden it
before the you know, the Netflix and all
that.
I
I sat down and wrote a
a a psychological profile of
the type of person that I thought might
find my treasure.
>> Interesting. Uh and I I've locked it
away Uh, and it it doesn't have any
clues or like that in it. It's more just
my thoughts around
uh, it's not very long, but you know, my
thoughts around the type of person that
would find it. So, I'm actually really
curious, you know, when this all comes
to fruition, I'd love to I'd love to
pull that out and and see how far off I
was.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, super interesting.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're more than
welcome to come on the show and talk
about it.
>> [laughter]
>> That's an open invitation.
>> There'll be a lot of interesting
conversations we had at that point, for
sure. So, do you think that do you ever
picture yourself getting into the hunt
side again, or are you currently engaged
in any treasure hunts?
Um,
it's kind of strange, you know, like
when this Netflix thing hit and and the
you know, the
the popularity of the treasure hunt
grew,
I've actually had a lot of people come
to me to say, "Hey, would you help with
this project or that project?" Um,
and there's several on the table right
now. There's a company called uh, I
don't know, I'll probably mispronounce
it. I think it's a Swedish company,
Ocean, o c e y o n, I think.
Uh, and they actually focus more on uh,
maritime recovery of of uh, shipwrecks
and so on.
Um, they they have expressed some level
of interest and I'm you know,
conversations are ongoing. Uh, and
there's there's other people with, you
know,
domestic treasure hunts that that
they've asked for me to partake in and
you know, I kind of look at it and say,
"I I don't frankly, I don't know I'm not
qualified, you know?
I didn't find the Forrest Fenn treasure,
you know?"
Uh, Oh, you were so close, though. I
mean,
you know, it it 10 ft, 10 mi, it really
you know, it's binary.
>> [laughter]
>> It just wasn't close enough. Uh, so you
know, I just I I don't know, maybe a
little self-critical, but I look at that
situation, I kind of wonder what value I
would be able to provide, but it's
interesting to talk about it and there's
there have been a few treasure hunts
that I've I've done some light
reconnaissance for just to kind of get a
feel for it.
Uh but I haven't I haven't committed
fully to to any right now. Um and that's
mainly because I just have this
obsessive personality, and I'm really
focused on this little tech startup
thing that I'm working on right now. Uh
I suspect like once that gets to a a
certain stage, then my attention will go
elsewhere, and it'll probably be one of
those treasures. Right. Well, I would be
remiss if I didn't ask this question. In
your recreational time, I'm sure you
still enjoy hiking and things like that.
Has it ever crossed your mind, "Hey, I'm
just going to go for a hike where I hid
the treasure?"
>> [laughter]
>> Casually nonchalantly, right?
You know, it's actually changed
it has changed my daily life in a way
where I get worried like even if I'm
just out on a casual hike and I bump
into somebody, they're like, "Oh my
gosh, it must be in this area cuz I saw
him here, you know."
>> Right. That's sort of alluding Yeah.
Yeah. And so, you know, for a quite a
while, I mean, I was
pretty radical about it in the sense
that I would actually do most of my
hikes and walks and stuff in the middle
of the night, you know, cuz I didn't
want to bump into people. It's like I
don't want to sway people one way or the
other.
Uh but I've kind of reached a stage
where it's like
you know, I I
I'm still going to carry on my my
personal life, and so I'll I'll be out
hiking and fishing, and you know, if I
bump into you, awesome. I'd love to love
to chat, uh but don't read into it. You
know.
Yeah. Right. Right.
I was a
a recipient of that kind of mentality
just this week. I'm downstairs on our
treadmill doing an iFit hike uh through
I don't know, somewhere in the Pacific
Northwest, and on video, I see someone
walk past, you know, the trainer. I'm
like,
"Eric,
I think that was Justin." And so, we had
[laughter] to zoom in and be like, "Did
he Was he caught on camera on the iFit
training?" So, it So, I did look at it.
I did look at it, and I said, "Where was
this hike?" Um because um I I forgot
that um the uh the trainer's name,
but um he said she said it was in
Oregon, right? I said, "Wait a minute."
Dr. Jared someone.
>> Yeah, and I looked I looked at under
your picture, and it was it was you and
your brother or something at our
favorite spot in Oregon. I said, "Boots
on the ground. We're going to go."
We saw him on the trail somewhere around
that time. We're going to put boots on
the ground. Oh, I mean, there there've
actually been uh a startling number of
reports sent to me, you know, just
different photos and video clips saying,
"Is this you? Come on, be honest. Is
this you?" Yeah. Right.
>> Um and you know, I I I I I I I I I I
think it's a monumental undertaking, you
know, to travel privately and
anonymously in the US. Uh
>> [clears throat and snorts]
>> And so, yeah, I mean, I suppose the fact
remains maybe I just uh maybe I just
screwed up. Maybe somewhere along the
way somebody caught me somewhere on a
video or something. Uh I was extremely
cautious, but
uh mistakes happen, so who knows?
>> [clears throat]
>> So So, when you when you you you you hid
your treasure, you came back, and you're
all excited about it, and you're about
ready to announce to the world there's
your your treasure hunt, right? You
know, how was that feeling the night
before, and then
you know, subsequent weeks and months
into it, were you
waking up in the middle of the night
thinking, "Did I get contacted? Uh has
it been found yet?" I mean, that must uh
I know it would have drove me crazy.
It was an interesting time, for sure. Um
you know, mostly it was I had a pretty
had
I had a pretty extensive checklist of
things. You know, it's mostly around
making sure that people have a smooth
experience. Like the last thing I wanted
is the website to crash, you know.
Yeah. Or um you know, books to be
unavailable. And there was one hiccup
that happened. Uh I'm trying to recall
how this came together, but basically
uh I made
uh oh oh that's right. The the the book
publisher that I'm or the printer that I
worked with
uh I talked about making a a change like
in the metadata or something before the
book was released. And
and so we mutually agreed we should
change that. And the net effect of that
change, which they didn't convey to me,
was
"Oh, your book will actually be
unavailable for some amount of time
while the metadata propagates globally."
And so it was like right right before
the launch and I I couldn't believe it.
I was just like, "Oh." And so I think
there was a lot of stress on my side
mostly just because I wanted to make
sure that that the people had a a smooth
smooth experience in the beginning. Uh
but I'm thankful to say the website
didn't crash and
and um
uh you know,
very few supply chain issues. So it it
it worked out okay. But yeah, beyond
that it was just I didn't really know
what to expect. I think I had it in my
mind that it was going to be this niche
thing, you know, just
uh
you know, kind of a quirky little series
that that you know, wouldn't gain much
of any traction or anything. But it was
just kind of wild how it turned out. I
mean, it was in the
uh uh
Netflix top
five or top three or something um in
pretty much every country worldwide for
I don't know. I think it was multiple
weeks. So it got a little bonkers there
for a while. And you know, I thought I
had a good plan for responding to people
in email, but it just
kind of ran me over. I mean, it was just
thousands of emails per hour and it was
just
it was a lot.
Yeah, I can imagine.
So speaking of kind of what has happened
since the hunt launched,
um
and do you get online and kind of engage
with what people are posting posting
Discord? So I I personally, the way that
we hunt, because I am limited in my
bandwidth for some for the full
experience, I don't get online, I don't
read anyone else's commentary, I'm not
on Discord, I'm not on any of the social
media. I I keep a virgin mind to
everybody else's thoughts. So I don't
know what's going on out there, but how
do you engage? Do you read what people
are thinking or posting potential
solves? Do you just kind of silently
observe them and laugh or raise an
eyebrow or do you actually engage with
the hunters?
So yeah, I first off, your stance is
actually something of a very similar
stance that I had during the Fenn
treasure hunt. I really didn't engage. I
mean, very occasionally I'd look at the
blogs and so on, but I was pretty
reticent to
um read them cuz I felt like it would
change my thinking in a way that might
be detrimental.
Uh and you know, there's probably some
truth to that concept of groupthink and
um you know, the impact that it can
have.
Uh in fact, I think I wrote something on
LinkedIn about this the other day.
Uh
I'd have to look it up. Anyway, um
Uh so yeah, yeah, yeah, I I do keep
tabs.
I I'm just to set the record straight
because these rumors tend to spread. I
do not uh engage with hunters under any
aliases or anything like that. Yeah. Uh
I do from time to time talk to people on
Discord and so on. Uh but it's more
casual chitchat. I'm I'm never going to
go in there and drop clues or something
like that. I mean, especially in like a
private Discord or anything to that
degree. Um but I do have
Uh I do have some aliases that I use uh
purely for for ingesting information as
opposed to
putting it out there. So for instance,
if there's a large say a you know
Discord voice chat or something going
on, I might pop in and I don't want my
presence to
you know, cause a stir. And so yeah, I
might I might go in under alias just to
listen in and see what people are
thinking. It is interesting to me.
Um
I don't know. I haven't really been a I
haven't been in a position where
you know, I'm I'm I'm like laughing at
somebody's solution. To me, it's more
like
I'm like I'm rooting for people, you
know, and it's you see people with good
thoughts or somebody who's kind of you
know, thinking in the right direction
and I'm just in the background thinking
keep going, you know, keep going. But
it's just it is fun to watch in the in
the the how the mental models shift over
time and you also see see these kind of
factions that
that form in the communities that form
and it's just I actually think it's a
really intriguing
uh
I kind of a microcosm of society, you
know, this there's a lot of interesting
psychology at play that's just Yeah. I
find intriguing to observe. Yeah.
So so you know, like like Laura said,
she she isn't involved in that. I I sort
of I don't really participate much. I I
I listen to take the temperature cuz I
create videos and I want to know what
you know, people are are are are
interested in. So I like to provide
my opinions and to the best
ability to do that.
But do you think like and I think we I
think we may have an advantage with
yours only because
I haven't you know, I I'll watch some
some channels to support them and listen
to them.
You know, but I but I don't really pay
attention to what they're talking about
because I jump in from time to time and
it would just be Yeah, yeah, like where
the direction. So
you know,
with in a lot of our viewers uh would be
new to your hunt and and your hunt's
been out for almost a year now. Yeah.
You know, would would it be um
you say it to an advantage,
disadvantage, or neutral
for somebody that doesn't participate in
that? Because a lot of our viewers don't
participate in any social media. They
they would just come to a video or
something, you know.
Yeah, I I think anything that is
pertinent to the treasure hunt, I it's
important to me that there's a one-stop
shop where you're basically one click
away
uh
of anything that I've said or done that
might be relevant. And so that's through
treasure.quest. You know, just go to the
announcements page, which means you
know, after this interview here, of
course, there'll be a link to to this
interview on on treasure.quest and
additionally the the podcast that was
aired, I think, this morning. Or was it
yesterday morning? I'm a little behind.
Uh that that needs to be updated as
well. Um so,
I don't think anyone has an inherent
advantage by like I I think the Discords
and YouTubes and the
Facebooks, they're wonderful sources for
entertainment. Uh and and, you know, I
think for especially for people that
don't have another person to talk to
about the treasure hunt, it's a great
outlet. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um
but no one gets an an advantage. I mean,
I guess I
thinking through it, maybe the only way
that could play out is if
say somebody posts something somewhere
that happens to be largely correct and
then another person comes in and reads
it and it's like, "Oh, I know the next
10%," right? Yeah, right. I mean, those
things can happen. Uh so, what I would
what I would uh
advise to searchers is if you have a
a strong solution,
uh
keep in mind that it might be strong Uh
and maybe the thing to do is not to
advertise and instead go and inspect.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, that's something I think about
with our channel cuz I mean, um, you
know, we
we generally want to be helpful for
people, especially people that are new
to it like we were and still are
relatively.
You know, and and make them feel like
they're not alone, you know.
And but but you know, but we also don't
want to mislead people as well. So it is
a fine line on that. It is.
>> It is. But now on your Netflix clues,
you know, um
are you is Netflix going to keep that up
for a while or is that are we afraid
that if it goes away we lose that or
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I
think it's it's to my uncertain
knowledge I think all Netflix original
series they keep in perpetuity. So I I I
think it will it will always be there as
long as Netflix is in business. Yeah.
Uh, unless something
really drastic happens. Uh, so I like to
think it'll stick around. Uh, I have
thought about that, you know, in
long-term, you know, what if it does go
away and I think the best that I can
muster is that the you know, the book
and the poem can stand on their own, you
know, the
the Netflix series is interesting and it
it does have some clues in the series.
Uh, but the treasure hunt can survive if
the show did not exist. Yeah. Mhm. Well,
I know we're getting close on time, but
I do want to give you a little time to
talk about Secret Summit cuz we're going
to be there and I encourage everyone of
our viewers to go. It's it's going to be
really amazing and I'm sure you could do
a better justice than me. So if you want
to take the little moment to talk about
it.
Yeah, I'm happy to. I mean, it's so Emma
and Gem of Treasure Hunters with us are
the main organizers for the event and it
is March 27th and 28th in Tucson,
Arizona. It is I think it starts at 7:00
p.m. on the 27th. It's kind of a mixer
that evening. I'm really meant to be I
think a celebration of the one year
release of Golden Greed.
I'll be there a lot of the people that
were in the series will be there.
And then you know that also the the
director and the producer
I'm still trying to convince the
director of photography too. He's
He's uh
Well, he's a little stubborn. We'll
we'll see how that goes.
Dave I'm talking about you.
So on the 28th there's really
It's a large gathering.
I really don't know how many people are
going to show up.
I think right now they're
they're converging on 500 500 attendees.
So I don't know where we'll land but
what we are trying for is a a Guinness
Book of World Records and I think the
last record was set in 2016 2017 in
Greece.
Somewhere around 1400 people and
basically what it means is
uh
the most number of people in one place
at one time that is doing a physical
treasure hunt. You know, one single
hunt.
And
Guinness has a very stringent
requirements on this that you need to
meet in order to um
to make it official and so we're I think
Emma's trying very very hard to check
all the boxes to make sure that it's a
legitimate
world record win. But of course that
means we need enough attendance. So you
know, if we get there that's great and I
as I understand it there's kind of
milestones that are being set. There's
multiple treasure hunt creators that'll
be there. Chad Burton will be there.
I hear JCB's on the fence. I would love
to see him there.
I've certainly
reached out to his team to see if they
if he'd be interested in attending. And
then there'll be a couple panels
throughout the day. I think the the
Golden Greed cast will be on a panel and
then we're doing a little panel on on
safety, you know, both on the northern
states and the southern states. Yeah.
>> and then uh Nicoleine Bohr is going to
be there. She's uh she was on Expedition
Unknown and uh Oak Island as well. Okay.
>> she's uh very into metal detecting and
conservation. So, I think she's doing a
session on metal detector usage.
Uh there's just been a lot of a lot of
people there. Uh and I think there's
there's a a pretty good lineup. So, it
should be a good time for everybody.
Yeah.
>> Who designed the hunt that's going to
happen?
How are all there? Uh I I have been
tasked with this
um this duty.
Uh I guess I should really start
thinking about that, huh?
Um
Yeah, so you know, I mean it's
in order to have this be a legitimate
treasure hunt and be in line with the
rules and regulations of Arizona and the
attorney general,
uh it is a game of skill. It is not a
game of chance.
You will not need to go off-site uh in
order to complete the treasure hunt. It
will all be within the confines of the
venue, which is the Tucson Expo Center.
Uh in terms of more details there, um
you know, in term legalities in Arizona
is very strict around, you know, what
they consider gambling and games of
chance. So, in this case, it is
unfortunately for people 21 and older.
Uh certainly anybody can come to the
event of any age, uh but for the
treasure hunt portion itself, uh there
is there is an age requirement by law.
Um and I think that's really really the
net of it. There's a lot of interesting
things to consider for a treasure hunt
in a constrained venue like this, uh
both from a, you know, just uh crowd
perspective and and technology
perspective. So, it'll be a a fun
challenge. Yeah. Yeah, well, we're
looking forward to it. And you know, I
really want to thank you for coming on.
You know, um it means a lot to us and we
you know, I'm sure our viewers and we
really appreciate it. Oh, I'm I'm happy
to be here, guys. It It such a delight
to meet you guys in Vegas and I'm I'm
looking forward to seeing you at the
summit. Great.
>> Absolutely. We'll see you then. Thank
you. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much, Justin. Good night.
Night.
>> [music]

[music]
>> Adventure's calling, treasure awaits.
Join us on a journey, let's open the
gates. Welcome to the pod where the
treasure is found. X marks the pod,
LET'S GATHER AROUND.
>> [music]
>> HEY, welcome to X marks the pod, the
podcast for treasure hunters by treasure
hunters. I'm here, boots on the ground
with Jaws Megan and a very special guest
this week. We have one of the stars of
Netflix Golden Greed and the creator of
Beyond the Map's Edge treasure hunt, the
one, the only Justin M. J Money Posey.
Welcome to X marks the pod, J Money.
Thanks for being here today.
J Money, that's a first.
>> [laughter]
>> Is that Is that good?
Happy to be here.
Well, we appreciate it. So, uh Um let's
get We're just going to jump right into
it. We were very excited to have you
here. We have a lot of questions that
were we've curated through the
community. We've sent a lot of flags up
like, "Hey, we're going to have Justin
on, tell us what you think." So, we have
a lot of good stuff here hopefully. Um
that we want to get going. So, we're
just going to roll right into it. The
the the structure today, we're going to
do about five questions each, kind of a
round robin going through. And then at
the end, if we have some time there, we
want to do some rapid fire, kind of a
yes, no. Hopefully, you'll answer some
questions, maybe not. Um you'll you'll
have that option to just go ahead and
plead no harm, no foul. Or if it's
something you want to address at Secret
Summit, then maybe we'll we'll dive into
or we'll we'll leave that for for that
for Tucson. So, all right, here we go.
Now that BTME is coming up on 1 year,
what has surprised you most about how
the hunt has unfolded?
Oh golly.
Uh I think more than anything just
how much it's grown. I I really had it
in my mind that it was going to be this
niche thing. I mean, when the
documentary first started to air, or
rather when it was first being filmed, I
don't even think there was a buyer. I
never imagined it would be on something
like
uh Netflix.
And even when it was on Netflix, I just
didn't think it was going to be as
popular as it became. So, I think more
than anything it's just the the growth
in the community and and you certainly
see all these uh for lack of a better
term subcommunities that spring up uh
that all kind of have their own uh
unique style and and uh bring their own
fun to the mix. So, it's been it's been
a lot of uh a lot of interesting things
to witness along the way.
Very good. Very good. Megan?
If you uh were a seeker for your
treasure, what question would you ask
yourself as a hunter?
Oh gosh.
Um
knowing what I know?
Mm, knowing what we know.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh I think that'd probably be a
a good question for Secret Summit.
Fair enough.
So, we have the map on the website.
If you had to rate it on a scale of 1 to
10, how important it is to have that map
to find the treasure, what would you
rate it?
Uh I'd have to put some real thought
into like a numerical rating, but I I
would say it's it's it's generally
useful uh for a couple of different
reasons.
You want to talk about those reasons?
>> [laughter]
>> Maybe another time. Okay, fair enough.
Fair enough.
Okay, um we love how much you're engaged
with the community, but do you feel
sometimes that your level of interaction
with the community is unintentionally
made BTME harder or more confusing?
Uh boy.
Yeah, I mean, there are certainly two
kind of
opposite ends of the spectrum in terms
of engagement. There's zero engagement
or maybe more like I've done.
And you know, my intent all along is to
provide additional clarity, but
uh I think the biggest risk are are
situations where I don't have time to
thoughtfully sit down and craft a
response preferably in writing.
And I think in those situations
especially, there's always the
opportunity that
I even though the intent is to provide
clarity, I probably could provide
uh the opposite and kind of muddy the
waters. Um you know, I think about over
the course of the year, coming up on a
year,
all all the different questions that
have been asked in the forums and so
forth and
you know, I'd be hard-pressed to
to think of something where
you know, I provided inaccurate
information. I think it it's all been
been accurate, uh even the off-the-cuff
stuff.
Um but there's likely been at least a
few times where
I probably would have chosen a different
wording or semantics if I were to have
spent more time crafting a real answer
as opposed to something that was off the
cuff, sort of like we're doing here. So,
that's the risky take by indulging in
in listening to me in and the uh various
um forums. Yeah. Okay. Let me let me
follow up on that real quick. Is there
anything that you would want to clarify
from other other interviews or Q&A's or
take back, perhaps?
>> [sighs]
>> No, I don't I don't I don't
think so. And I think even
I think even
just the exercise of trying to clarify
further might make things worse.
I'm not I mean, I don't know if worse is
the right word, but make it more
ambiguous. So, I'm actually pretty
pretty happy with where things stand
there. So, status quo. Okay, fair
enough.
Which part of your personality
influenced the poem the most? The part
of you who is an engineer or the part of
you who's an enthusiastic uh
explorer?
Uh I'd say the part of me
that
embraces childlike wonder the most.
So,
there's a lot of talk about the
checkpoints, so I've got a couple
questions about that for you tonight.
Uh is it something that we are going to
physically see and know that it's the
checkpoint when we get there?
Uh that's a good Secret Summit question.
>> [laughter]
>> Sorry.
No, we we kind of knew that was a risk
that we were taking today by by by
bumping up so close to Secret Summit.
So, we we totally understand. We're
we're and we're we're good. No no hard
feelings, J Money. You're good with us.
So,
Let's talk about modern tools. You know,
obviously we want this to be a more
AI-proof boots on the ground, but do you
feel like tools such as Google Earth,
AI, um etc. are helping people with the
hunt or actually leading further away
from your intended path?
I think it's a bit of both. You know,
I've certainly seen cases where
I mean, using
some of the what we consider basic
technology these days like Google Maps
can be beneficial, but also
uh
you know, I think
some people might have taken that to an
extreme to the point where you see
patterns where there are none.
Uh or I
I mean, I can think of kind of an
extreme example where uh a few people or
more than a few people have actually
sent me emails showing, you know, very
very specific um
foliage
uh shapes that that are
believed to be clues. I mean, clearly
foliage is going to change over the
course of the year uh and you know,
heaven forbid this goes on for more than
you know, years. Uh th those are the
types of things that I think are are
subject to change. So, I would just
caution
uh not to have an over-reliance on that
stuff or to look so deeply that you're
you're seeing uh patterns in the tea
leaves.
>> [laughter]
>> Can I I want I want to ask you why you
said heaven forbid this go on for for
years?
>> [laughter]
>> Well, I I you know, I I've I've had it
in my mind since this began that um
it would be kind of a an accelerated
version of what
Forrest Fenn had done in the sense that
he
you know, his treasure hunt grew
organically over the course of many
years. And you know, if you think about
like even the first five years of the
treasure hunt, it wasn't terribly
popular. It really started to gain
momentum in the latter part.
And and this is kind of like a a
treasure hunt on steroids in the sense
that Netflix has catapulted it into
something where people many people have
dove in headfirst on day one.
And so, it's I you know, in terms of
comparison, if I were to
to force it, you know, I'd say that
today is sort of like
year nine of Fenn hunt.
And so, uh
you know, I can imagine the perspective
that that treasure hunters might be
being like that deep into it from day
one and us coming up on the year mark.
So,
you know, yeah
as I think many people have said,
there's a fine line between, you know,
obsession and and something that may or
may not be more healthy.
>> [snorts]
>> So, I think it's just around um
you know, how long does this go on
before, you know, it becomes something
that um has the potential to
um
well, cause more people a deeper
obsession. I like to think that it's a a
great hobby for people and I think it is
for the vast majority of everybody.
Um I think that's probably the only
lingering worry that I have is that
maybe over time
uh certainly for some personality types,
it could become something more.
Uh and nobody I I don't think anybody
wants that that unhealthiness. So,
that's the only thing that gives me
reservation about it lasting too long.
It makes sense. And Megan, he's talking
about you. People
>> He probably is.
>> [laughter]
>> I do not know.
Just to follow up.
Just a follow-up question about that.
You said it feels like you're going into
like year nine of the Forrest Fenn hunt
on year one. Does that mean that
somebody's getting close to finding this
treasure?
You know, I I think it's I mean if there
there have been
more than at least a few people that
have been
fairly close to finding the treasure.
And so
um
you know, it's hard to quantify. There's
a lot of different sources out there,
but um yeah, I think that's fair to say.
With the Forrest Fenn treasure, he said
he regretted putting the bracelet in the
box. Is there any part of your treasure
that you regret putting in that you
wished you had for yourself? And if not
regret, just something you wish that you
had for yourself, a favorite?
Um I put everything each item into the
treasure container intentionally.
And I did it with a lot of thought. So
there's nothing that I regret
putting in there, but there are things
that I put in there that have a very a
deep meaning to me.
Uh and so, you know, in a way it felt
like
um
kind of like passing on a little piece
of what I felt was important to
whoever finds this. And it's
you know, I mean
those types of things are most of them
are not of of great value. It's more of
uh significance than anything else. But
no, I don't regret putting them in
there.
>> [clears throat]
>> All right, I've got another checkpoint
question. Hopefully it's one that you
can answer and not not wait for Seeker
Summit.
>> [laughter]
>> Um did you place the checkpoint there
yourself or was it something that was
already there?
Oh, uh that's a potential for Seeker
Summit, but
>> [laughter]
>> not until then.
And then just a little follow up to
that. It Are you aware of anyone that
has been to the checkpoint?
I'm I'm at least aware of people that
have been close.
Okay.
Okay.
See, we we've had this conversation
about what the checkpoint could be. And
and I envisioned that you you had made
some billboards up with you and Tucker,
maybe like a a faux Humane Society
advertisement or something like that. So
we're looking for something in there
with your face on it is what we're we're
looking for. So
cuz that's when I will absolutely have
zero doubt if I see your face out there
somewhere on a billboard or something,
I'll have zero doubt. So that's about
the only way I think I'll have zero
doubt.
>> option. It's an option.
We Hey, we got to think about it.
>> this interview there's going to be like
a wall with J Money was here spray
painted on it.
>> [laughter]
>> With the J Money tags. I know, exactly,
exactly.
Um Justin, do you feel like the the
community is overcomplicating
the the the poem or or missing something
very simple
um in the process?
I think that's the
the natural inclination for any puzzle
where you don't understand the solution.
I mean, you look at all different types
of puzzles, both mental and physical.
And you know, if you know the answer, it
seems so simple. And then you look uh
and somebody else looks at it and they
try many different things that you never
even thought to try
uh that are just vastly beyond what it
was what it was meant to be. Um
So yeah, I mean, there's certainly
people out there that have
overcomplicate many things.
Uh and then there are other aspects that
I'm just slightly surprised at in terms
of
uh how how simplistic people have taken
it, you know, at at surface value. So I
think it's probably a little bit of
both, but certainly weighted toward many
people that have taken things uh too
deep or or looked uh looked too far.
Okay. Conversely, have you heard anybody
Have you looked at any solves and went,
"Wow, I haven't really thought about
that. That would be an interesting fit.
That that that could really that could
play well in this."
Actually, yes. There have been several
uh
emails that I've received where
uh it was not at all what I intended, uh
but reading through it, it's like, "Wow,
that's actually
quite poetic or quite fitting." And
I wish I had thought of that, you know.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you. Thanks for reading my
emails. Um
>> [laughter]
>> I think that's what Chris didn't say is
he Chris was one of the ones that went
like way over analyzing it is what he
didn't say.
>> [laughter]
>> We we got this question a couple of
times, so it must be important to quite
a few people. Um
Did you intentionally place small
trinkets or any objects to help build
confidence so people knew that they were
on the right path?
Um
I mean, there is something along the way
that will will help significantly.
Is are you Is that the checkpoint?
I have not specified. Interesting. You
You thought a long time about that one.
That one really
>> [laughter]
>> I I
>> next question is would you like to
specify?
>> [laughter]
>> Not at this time.
Well, very good. That's interesting.
Okay, and trinkets off the be looking
for those. All right.
All right. So today there was a
announcement about a new milestone
coming up for Seeker Summit with our 11
11 goal.
Is there a significance to the number 11
11? What made you pick that number?
What made me pick that number? Uh
I was
I had 30 about 38 seconds between two
calls and
>> [laughter]
>> I had to pick a number.
And it just felt right. That was really
the extent of it. Okay. So the people
reading into it and
Yeah, there's people already that are
like it's the the clues at 11 minutes
and 11 seconds of the episode. So don't
read into it too much is what you're
telling us.
>> bother. No, it's it was just the easiest
thing to type.
Well, good question and good
clarification cuz you've stirred a lot
of you kicked the hornets' nest with the
11 11. So you know how that works,
right?
>> Yeah, no matter what number I chose, it
was going to cause something. So yeah.
It didn't matter. It didn't matter.
You're right. You're right. Uh well, we
appreciate you clarifying that so we're
not chasing the 11 11 all day long and
trying to figure out what that means. So
thank you. That's that's that's helpful.
Um Justin, if BT and me were a game of
hot and cold, where would you say the
community is? Are they they still they
still cold or they getting warmer or
they burning up? And would you be
surprised if the treasure isn't found in
the next year?
Yeah, I mean, I suppose it depends on
your your definition of community. Like
there there are many people that are
searching for the treasure that don't
partake in, you know, a lot of the
social media aspects.
Uh and so there there are many
[clears throat] communities that have
formed within the the the BT and me
world, if you will, whether it's
Discord, Facebook, or a combination
thereof.
Um
uh Reddit and and so forth. And so
you know, I I I
I have been busy enough lately with
other things that
uh I wouldn't say that I've lost touch,
but I I don't have the same pulse that I
did, say, a month ago.
Uh but
you know, I think each of those
communities
group think does
tend to rule the day. And
I think sometimes that can be a
detriment.
And so
you know, if I look at each of them
I wouldn't say that there's
to the best of my knowledge any
any community out there that is is like
way off in left field or anything like
that. Um but I wouldn't I would also say
that I'm not aware of any community that
is like
as a group think uber close either. So
somewhere in between.
I don't know if that helps or not.
No, but you make a good point about
group think and I think that's common
pretty much any in in life, but is there
any So do you want to throw anybody a
bone here or is there any group think
ideas out there that you've seen that
you would like to debunk and like get
people to go, "Okay, don't stop looking
at that. It's not worth your time. Let's
move move on." Get them off that that
track. Is there Is there one out there
that's really big that you see and you
go, "Come on, guys. Let's uh you know,
we need to you want to shoot that down."
Yeah, I mean, I probably just
reiterating what's already
um what I hope is clear on the website.
Like you don't need to go to my
the the houses of my friends and family
in order to track down the treasure.
Um
uh Is that happening a lot?
Uh
there have been some some situations,
yeah.
>> Okay. So people can stay the heck away
from your family like you told them
already.
Yeah. Uh yeah, I think more than
anything it just be maybe kind of reread
the rules and the and the and the safety
stuff. But beyond that, um
not nothing that I'd clarify right now.
Okay. Fair enough. And appreciate the
the clarification on the family thing so
people may may get the the clue on that.
Uh during Seeker Summit, uh we have the
opportunity to compete in world record
breaking treasure hunt um that you're
creating. Is there anything that you can
tell us about that
um, or anything about the hunt in
general?
Sure, yeah. Um,
it's actually a little bit of a tricky
situation because the Arizona Attorney
General and the statutes of Arizona uh,
put some rather severe limitations on
us. And so,
this will be a very
uh, curated or constrained experience.
It's not
how I would prefer to design a treasure
hunt. So,
know that going in. Um,
and it will have many guardrails on it.
Uh,
know that going in.
Uh, and so I think it's just one of
those things where you can only do so
much with those constraints. And
I've tried to do the best that I could
given those constraints. So, I think
probably the first one would be is I
hope you guys aren't too disappointed.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh, but it is kind of it is what it is
at this point. Uh, there there certainly
is a physical aspect to it. It's not
like you'll just be you know, standing
in one place. It's not completely mental
like where you know, trying to solve
something on paper.
Uh, there is a mental aspect to it.
There will be a physical component to it
as well. And that's important because
um, the Guinness Book of World Records
has stringent rules in terms of what
constitutes an actual treasure hunt, a
physical treasure hunt. So, uh, people
will be moving around. There'll be no
need to drive anywhere. It's going to be
on site at the Tucson Expo Center.
Everything will be indoors.
And
uh, you really there's not much you
could do in terms of prep work. The the
main things that I'd say just in terms
of Secret Summit in general is if you
have a mobile device, bring it. You
don't need it for the treasure hunt.
It's more around getting access to
submit your questions for the Q&A
efficiently.
And you know, to help with the check-in
process. And then the other piece would
be um, see if you can [clears throat]
recall the email that you used when you
purchased your tickets cuz that'll be
useful in order uh, to get access to the
the site that powers the Q&A.
Uh, in terms of the treasure hunt
beyond that, um,
it might be useful to bring something
that you can uh, write on. You know, I
mean a clipboard or just you know, a
book or something where that's kind of
flat and hard where you
you can actually write on it as you as
you move around. And that'd be that'd be
my only advice so far.
Perfect. Okay.
All right. So, I know you've watched
some of our episodes before.
>> [clears throat and cough]
>> We have one question that we like to ask
every single guest that comes on.
So, do you have an embarrassing or funny
story that happened to you while you
were boots on the ground?
>> [laughter]
>> That's that all of my boots on the
ground?
Oh, jeez.
Um,
boy, I don't even know where to start.
Uh, I've had many embarrassing
experiences.
Um,
>> [laughter]
>> there's one time when I was hiking and I
I I heard a noise
and I thought it was
an animal like rooting around, snorting,
and making noises. And
>> [laughter]
>> I went to investigate said noise and it
was actually a a hiker that had stepped
off the path that was um,
uh, going number two. And
there's a lot of noises associated with
that that I totally mistook for
something else.
And I got way too close before I didn't
I saw the person. And it was just a
really awkward situation. So, that was
pretty embarrassing. Yeah.
Well, luckily you didn't hit him with
some bear spray or something. Here's a
>> [laughter]
>> It's not good. Not good. That would have
been Yeah, that would have been a really
good story.
All right. Justin, we've kind of exhaust
we've gone through our our rapid fire or
not a rapid fire question, our round
robin questions there. Um,
went through a little quicker than I
thought. But we do have a lot of little
rapid fire questions. Again, your your
your no no harm no foul to just punt on
any of these or or tell us you know,
maybe Secret Summit. But if you'd like
to answer them, I'm sure the community
would really enjoy that. So, What is
I'll go ahead. What's that? Oh, I said
I'll do my best. Go right ahead.
>> Well, you well, that's yes, exactly.
What question are you tired of treasure
hunters asking you?
Tired?
Um,
hm.
When you hear it, you're like, not
again. Seriously. Yeah, it's not that
there's a question that I'm tired of.
It's more I think
the one that kind of still gives me a
chuckle to this day is
where people will send emails and
you know, they're really looking for a
hint. And so, they're just you know,
respond if I'm just in the right general
area or respond if uh,
you know, with an emoji if you know, on
this video if you think that and so on.
And
I mean, of course I'm not I'm I'm not
going to indulge in that. But
uh, I the persistence has been very
impressive. There have been a lot of
people that have tried very hard. And I
think the most unique one
uh, and you know who you are. Uh,
the was actually at the book signing
event in Dillon.
And when I received a book to sign, on
the page it said,
"Is the treasure in Montana? If no, sign
on this side. If yes, sign on the other
the other side of the page."
>> [laughter]
>> And I feel you know, it's kind of like
this nonchalant type of thing where
nobody will know. Just pick a page. And
of course I I turned to a totally
different page number and signed. But
>> [laughter]
>> people try. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, I you know, I guess it's
just human nature. We're going to we're
going to try to get what we can out of
you. But yeah, I can understand that
being like you know, like blink twice if
it's in Montana.
>> [laughter]
>> Okay, never mind.
Let me ask you a question about Secret
Summit. Well, aside from the fact that
you're going to eliminate at least one
state
um, right from from BTME depending on
and possibly two if we have a number of
questions. Uh, my I want to know have
you one have you decided what that
state's going to be. Two, if you have,
are we going to go
meh like if you when you say it or are
we going to be like ooh like ooh, I
can't believe he eliminated that state.
Well, frankly, I'm on the fence. And
there are there are two states in my
mind that are on the chopping block.
Um,
now, if in the
uh, Emma, don't kill me for saying this.
But I think the rare chance that we we
hit 2,000, I would I would eliminate
both of those those states that are in
my mind. Uh, but if we don't, I'm still
I'm still debating
which one it's going to be. And I think
you know, each
state elimination would have a very
different impact. And so, I'm still
still mulling it over. I like to keep my
options open. Um, I'm I'm leaning toward
one versus the other. But I haven't made
a solid firm decision yet. Okay. Is it
important to you to get that good
reaction of ooh or just everybody to go
uh?
Uh, you know, Do you do you care?
I do care because um,
you know, I mean, certainly people are
investing their time and and resources
to be at the Secret Summit. And so,
it's important to me that that
well, people enjoy themselves while
they're there. And I think the the state
elimination is is a part of that
experience.
Uh, I mean, certainly it'll be posted on
the website and so on afterward. Uh, so
it's not like you're getting a huge leg
up by by being there necessarily. It's
more just around the the excitement, I
think. And so,
yeah, I mean, I I think that that
portion is is important to me. Yeah.
Okay. Fair good. Fair enough. We're very
excited. There's been a lot debate. We
we talked about that with we were on
M&J's show last week and we had a big
discussion about it. So, hopefully I'm
sure they'll bring it up tomorrow when
they talk to you. Um, so if if we only
eliminate one there,
how would you feel about coming back on
here in a couple months and eliminating
another one with us?
Stranger things have happened, you know.
>> [laughter]
>> That's true.
That's very true. Okay, Justin,
uh, has anybody solved the cipher? And
if not, can we get a hint on the cipher?
To the best of my knowledge, no. No one
has solved the cipher. And
uh, that is actually something I do
plan to
clarify or or provide some some clarity
on it at at the Secret Summit to help
uh, push that one along a bit if you
will.
And you know, I think as I mentioned
before, the
the cipher answer is not
something that will
give you a a huge advantage or anything.
It's more around
helping you understand what the
container is, which I think in some
regard could help.
Um,
but that's the main point of the of the
cipher. And I think there is a sticking
point that I've
I realized uh,
fairly quickly after everything launched
um, that I think there's a many people
that are just a little bit hung up on.
And I think with just a slight amount of
of additional clarity there that will
will get some progress. Okay. We're
overthinking it.
Uh, no. I it's not that people I mean,
some people certainly are. But
um,
I see it as a for lack of a better term
a noise problem.
There is too much there is too much
noise that's been interjected that makes
it difficult to
to filter out to see
what you need to see. And so I need to I
need to rectify that. Okay, a groupthink
problem perhaps.
Well, maybe a little. Maybe.
>> Okay,
fair enough.
Um speaking of hints, can we get a hint
on the clocks?
>> [laughter]
>> Maybe a secret summit.
>> Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.
Um do we need to pay special attention
to the 1652 oak tree shilling? It seems
to be pretty important to you. Some
folks have asked about that.
Yes, so the
I don't know if I've ever mentioned the
backstory on that. Maybe I have, so I
apologize if I repeat myself, but
um
the 1652 oak tree shilling actually
the original one that I
had actually came from my grandfather
and it was from his collection and
it
it was very special to me just because
of how I became how I came to learn
about it and where it came from. And it
turned out that that coin was
counterfeit. And I was just heartbroken
when I found that out and I never had
the heart to tell him
my grandfather that it that it was
counterfeit. And so it it bothered me a
lot over the years and I and I had just
said to myself back then that one day I
if I ever have the means I will
I will get one, but it'll be the real
thing. And I actually really wanted to
do that before my grandfather passed and
it didn't didn't work out, but I did end
up getting it and that's
that's the significance of it. It's kind
of a little bit of the backstory. Oh,
that's awesome. Did you get one to keep
for yourself?
Uh no, that's actually that's the only
one and it it went into the treasure. Um
as far as I know it's it's I think it's
tied for the highest graded Ando edition
oak tree shilling in existence. So it's
it's it's pretty rare.
Okay, very good. Well,
I'll tell you this. I'll if when I find
the treasure, I'm going to I'm going to
give that back to you. So it's
That's that's kind of you to offer, but
No strings attached really. Whoever
finds it it's all yours. It's buddy. You
guys own this. So
Um let's ask about you you you gave when
the when the technical clue was was
discovered, you you let the community
know that that was found. Are you going
to let the community know when the
checkpoint is discovered or if the
checkpoint is discovered?
Um
if I come to learn that the checkpoint
has been discovered,
I would likely announce that it has been
discovered, but I would not divulge what
it is until after the treasure is found.
Fair enough. Okay.
Good answer. Good answer.
Um this is for me. Is a gazebo a
structure or a building?
>> [laughter]
>> You know, that's a funny one. Um
I think based on the formal definition,
a gazebo
would be considered a type of building,
especially as it pertains to things like
building codes, but I could be mistaken
there. I would actually have to check a
uh a dictionary to be absolutely
certain, but I would tend toward it
being a building. I could be off base. I
I'm not concerned what the dictionary
says. I'm concerned what you think a
gazebo is.
>> [laughter]
>> I I would categorize
you know, a building being anything that
has um
uh a shelter from from the elements in
terms of having some sort of overhead
component to it and something that you
can quote unquote step inside. So, you
know, you can step into a gazebo. So
personally, I would consider that to be
a form of a building. Okay, very good.
I'm thank you for answering that. I
appreciate that. Um speaking of the
rules and man-made and things like that.
I I know that you know,
you spent a lot of time in the book
talking about loopholes. Maybe not a lot
of time, but there definitely was some
chapters on loopholes. Are there any
loopholes in the rules that you put
aside? Is there is there going to be an
aha moment where we go, okay, like we
need to look at we need to look at this
from a loophole perspective, not just
what he said about man-made structure or
near gravestones or graveyards like
things like that. Like is there a
is are there any loopholes built into
the rules?
Not none that are are intentional. I
mean, I think there's one that maybe
arguably somebody could quibble about.
Um but beyond that, no. No, the the
rules are really meant to be cut and
dry. Okay.
Interesting. So that that makes me
wonder like why all the loophole talk if
there's no loopholes in the rules. So
but that's okay.
>> [laughter]
>> Is there a poem solver there's more than
one clue with a man-made implication?
Is there a poem solver there's more than
one clue with a man-made implication?
Maybe that's not very clear. That
Yeah, I'm thinking through this.
I want to make sure I answer this
accurately. So I I I'm willing to answer
this just
I want to think a little bit of more
about it before I provide an answer. So
I'll consider it a follow-up. Yeah.
Okay, got it. Got it. Got it.
Okay,
well to kind of a another part of that.
Can a hunt item be displayed on the
outside of a man-made building or
structure?
Maybe not inside a structure, but uh
on the outside.
Uh I don't want to
to limit that. So I I would say it's
it's always a possibility. Got it.
Is the BTME logo a clue?
Um
what I can say is that I I designed the
the logo intentionally.
And um it has it has some meaning.
Okay. Okay.
Um are you too smart for us mortals? Are
you um
I I like to say Justin has confirmation
bias. You know, when you when you talk
when you're giving out answers and
things like that. Like if you know
exactly what the solve is, like it's
easy for you to to um
maybe
not translate in the way that us mere
mortals are able to to understand. We
know you're a super smart guy,
engineering guy, you know, math guy.
Um is this going to be too hard for us?
I'm probably a lot worse at math than
you you might guess. Um
No, you know, so when I designed this, I
really
I think somebody I
Megan, you might ask earlier this this
question about um
you know, what
what I would embrace most is in terms of
designing the treasure hunt and it is
that that childlike wonder. And so
uh at least in my mind, I like to think
that somebody of
you know, even
pretty young age would be able to
to solve this if they put their mind to
it and
and you know, figured out the right
stuff and the right context and so on.
Uh
So
you know, it's nothing that requires any
sort of you know, college degree or
really even any high school diploma or
anything like that. Um
I tried to make it as approachable as as
I could. Okay.
Now having said that, would people that
maybe have a background in fishing or
hunting or hiking or outdoorsy type out
activities, would they have a leg up on
on most folks in this?
You know, I think it's almost impossible
to design
something where
there's zero specialized knowledge in
anything in the world that would, you
know, give somebody a leg up. Uh
So I'm hesitant to say
I'm hesitant to to say that it wouldn't
help. Um
but probably not as much as as people
might think. Okay. Okay, fair enough.
Are you willing to rule out digging and
the the treasure being buried?
Yeah, I I think I think you know,
if if you know where the treasure's at,
it's not going to matter either way. So
I'm it's not something I'm willing to
rule out at this time.
Okay, interesting. Okay.
Um have you ever had to go check on the
box for any any weather conditions?
No, I haven't. Um
at at this stage certainly I'd be
reticent or
very cautious about doing anything like
that. So I have no plans in the future
to
ever return to the exact location of the
treasure. Okay, cuz obviously you're
familiar with Posey Tracker where we
have you we have we have scouts on the
ground following your every move exactly
where you're going at all times, right?
>> You don't know how late you are
actually.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, am I Sorry, I was being a little I
was being a little facetious, but
I guess it wouldn't surprise me, huh?
Yeah, I mean, there
Yeah, some tricky people out there, you
know. I mean, for instance, you know, I
get packages in the mail and
uh you know, it'll be a gift, but
there'll be something built into the
gift that happens to track location.
Lots of lots of fun little things that
you got to deal with. So there's always
gotchas. Yeah. Interesting. Well, what's
what's the most what's the craziest
thing you've gotten in the in the mail
based on you know, for
that's trying to track you or or what
whatever that that you got. Oh gosh. Um
Um
I think more than anything what the
craziest thing that surprised me was the
sophistication.
Uh
You know, certainly
it's not like somebody went to the dime
store and set this up. It was It was
quite well done.
Um
And it was more just around the compact
form and how it was incorporated
incorporated into a gift that I received
uh that made it rather hard to detect.
And the the gift was very intentional in
the sense that it would be very tempting
for somebody say like me uh to have it
on me at all times because it's it it
it's meant to be an everyday
convenience. So, uh
it was very very well designed. I'll
I'll give the person credit there.
Wow, so do you have something that can
detect that? Like some kind of bug or
scanner or something that detects things
that are you know, help that that are
tracking devices or what I'm fascinated
with that looks like.
>> [laughter]
>> It's a It's actually a a a rather
rigorous system. You know, there's
um
almost nothing can be delivered directly
to my house. And
>> Oh.
um
My mail goes through a a fairly
elaborate system.
And
um
you know, it is never opened at the
house. And
it is thoroughly scanned and vetted
before anything comes to the house.
Uh and so on. So, it's it's a whole
system and I'm sure my family just can't
stand me for it. So
Well,
>> [laughter]
>> it sounds elaborate, but it just it gets
me I mean, I never would have thought
that that would be a thing that you
would have to set up a system for your
mail that that
for things to go through. It makes me
wonder like what other systems do you
have in place in your life that that
normal people don't think about that
you're you're having to deal with now
because you're you know, you're J Money
and everybody wants a a piece of of you
and wants the wants the
to be involved with this. Like Can I If
you don't mind, I mean, do you have
anything else that you you want to share
that you systems that you have to put in
place just to keep your own safety and
sanity?
Yeah, I mean, it's
you know, I went in eyes wide open. So,
I'm not complaining. It's It's more
around
uh I think this is probably just good
advice for people that are looking to do
a large-scale treasure hunt is that
uh in in some respects, it will run your
life if uh well, no matter what you do,
uh especially if you if you try and do
it right.
>> [laughter]
>> And and to uh make sure that it
continues to be fair for everybody.
Uh there there are a lot of things. You
know, I mean
I've I've gosh, I could probably write a
whole book about it.
Uh you know, being in in certain public
places and people putting trackers on
vehicles or
uh
you know, following me from place to
place seeing where I'm going or um
um
uh befriending people that are friends
with me
um
in order to pose what seemed to be
innocuous questions to me uh that are
actually quite the opposite. And so, I
have kind of this constant radar, if you
will.
>> [laughter]
>> So, no matter who it is when they're
asking me questions or talking to me
uh it's it's really a state of constant
vigilance. Interesting.
>> I think that um
I'm I'm okay with it. You know, I I've
I've kind of built it into my lifestyle
and I I feel I feel good about it. But I
can imagine that for many people's
lifestyles, it would be very hard.
And so, I I would say that you know, a
large-scale treasure hunt is not for
everybody.
And you do need to think about those
those types of things before you you
embark on on something like this because
you know, in in in some some respects,
it is a a form of an an obligation, if
you will. But I'm still having a lot of
fun with it. So, again, I'm not
complaining. It's just things that have
happened. Okay. Well, it's interesting
because in Vegas like you
you were so approachable and and so just
just mingling and having a good time and
I didn't see like that you know, kind of
what you're saying like you know, you
had all these treasure hunters in a room
that would have you know, given their
left arm to get some kind of clue or
something out of you. But you were very
but you're very personable, you're very
open, approachable. Um seems a little
bit of a contrast from from what you're
what you're describing. Um I guess my
question would be would you do this
again?
You know, it's it's been a very unique
experience. And and I think I
I feel that I can relate to Forrest Fenn
on a different level than I I could
ever. And it and it was just it was easy
for me to sit back and pontificate and
think, oh, well, this is what it's going
to be like. Uh but it's an entirely
different thing to to experience it
firsthand. And and there are certainly
certainly still you know, family members
that are close to me that
um
you know, there there are times where
they might not realize the gravity of
the situation.
And uh you know, they're
they they will certain actions like
totally unintentional
uh that that can at times exacerbate the
the situation. Um so, no, I I I don't
regret it. Would I do it again?
I think the honest answer is I don't
know yet. Uh I want to follow this
through to completion and see what the
uh the end result is.
You know, I think it's true to say that
many treasure hunts
uh end poorly
after it's found. And so, I think that's
really the real Yeah, that that that is
the the litmus test here to make sure
uh this is all kind of airtight, if you
will. And depending on how that goes, I
I could see a future where
you know, an an additional treasure hunt
could happen. Oh, you got to hear first.
An additional treasure hunt from Justin.
That's what I think you know, Megan has
speculated that there you know, they
talk about the two letters in your in
your in the in the box there. One for
the steward and what's the other? The
bomb show one. So, that's what we're
we're maybe thinking that it might be
part two of of that. So Stranger things
have happened. Yeah. Uh uh
>> [clears throat]
>> okay. Very good. Very good.
Um oh gosh, I had a follow-up there and
I just lost it. But that's all right. I
have other questions for you. Um do the
illustrations in the book have clues in
them?
You know, that that
building building clues into things that
you have to convey to another person is
is a challenging thing. So, a good
example would be the hint that was found
in the song.
Uh the only reason that I was able to do
that is because I had
you know, a
a deep level of of control in the final
product that was produced. Mhm. And you
know, the illustrations
are challenging in that regard because
you know, it's not like you just call up
the illustrator and say, "Hey, I want
all of these very specific aspects built
into an illustration because they're
important." It's kind of a tip-off. Mhm.
And so, um
you know, I I I had a lot of direction
that I gave to the illustrator in terms
of what I wanted. But at the end of the
day, she had the final choice in terms
of how it was rendered.
Um so, I'm not I'm purposely not
answering the question directly. Uh
but what I will say is that uh the
illustrator, she she has no special
knowledge. It's not like you know, I I I
told her very specific things or
anything like that.
Fair enough. Okay, great. I remember my
question. Going back to like the where
you talked about about how how your hunt
wraps up
whenever it comes to fruition. How
important is it for you that people look
at the solve and go, "That makes sense.
I understand it. Logically, I can go
point A, point B, you know, point B, C
all the way through." Not do I like it,
not do I agree with it. But is it
important for you that you know, and you
know, reasonable person is a very loose
definition these days. But a reasonable
person looks at it and goes, "I
understand that. That makes sense to me.
I think I I can see how that that
works."
Is that important to you?
I mean, I I I think within reason. I
mean, it it would be strange to hold a
treasure hunt where
you know, a
a very small minority even understood in
retrospect what it even means. And so
Yeah, I mean, I I think that is
important. And it's like
I Well, a good example would be a Sudoku
puzzle, right? Like once it's solved
I anybody can do it and look at the math
and say, "Well, yeah, it's it's
definitely correct. There's no ifs,
ands, or buts about it." And then at the
opposite end of the spectrum
you know, if you tell somebody to go
uh you know, jump in a lake. And then
it's like, "Well, there's
12 million lakes in the world. Like
which one are you talking about?" Uh
Well, well, I meant that one over in
Norway, right? I mean, that
that's kind of the opposite end of it.
Like how would anybody have ever known
it was Norway?
And so, I think there's somewhere in
there there's a middle ground. And I
like to think that when this is over
uh people will have more understanding.
And the average person would be able to
say
"Okay.
Seems reasonable."
Okay.
Um the only thing I got out of that
whole thing, Justin, was that we need to
go jump in a lake is what I've heard.
>> [laughter]
>> The jump in a lake is it definitely a
clue and we need to jump in a lake. All
right. Can you tell me which lake it is?
Blink twice for Lake Minnetonka.
>> [laughter]
>> You sound like a treasure hunter. Yeah.
Um this is this is more schematic so
people you know, and I I've I've heard
people say this and and I I you know, I
just I I think it might be helpful for
them to hear you say it. A lot of people
when they say um or like content
creators say um people have been within
200 ft of this or that or the other
thing." They they want to argue that,
"Well, well maybe it's just random
people walking around hiking on a trail.
It's not searchers." Can you Can you
clear Can you confirm that when you say
someone is within 200 ft up at the
checkpoint or people are close, you're
talking about actual searchers? That's
just to clarify that. Is that a fair
way to put that? I know people get
wrapped up in the in the wording of that
sometimes. I just wanted to clarify
that.
I mean, it it's true to say that there
there have been at least a few searchers
that have been
uh
quite close.
Uh yeah, quite close. Okay. But, they
are searchers. They're They're not just
random, you know, cuz people will take
that as you're saying 200 They are
searchers. People have been with that.
Okay, perfect. That's just That was just
a clarification point there. Um the
Forrest Fenn hunt required a river
crossing to get to the the treasure box.
Does yours require any kind of river
crossing, wading through water?
I have not specified.
I'm not I'm giving you the opportunity,
Justin. That's what this is all about.
I appreciate the opportunity. Noted.
>> Okay, well okay.
>> [laughter]
>> All right, fine, JMoney. I see you.
Are you concerned that someone not
looking for the treasure is going to
find it?
I think in on the in the broad spectrum
of spectrum of things that are
concerning to me, it's
it's lower on the totem pole.
Okay. How low on the totem pole?
Just kidding. At the bottom? I don't
know. Okay.
These two questions are for me. Did you
ever search for dinosaur in Dinosaur
National Monument for the Forrest Fenn
treasure?
Hm.
Uh for the Forrest Fenn treasure, no.
You didn't.
Okay, well, that's
that's disappointing. That's just me.
Sorry.
And um Megan kind of prompted this
question for me after me telling her
a story about my moose encounter while
searching for for your treasure. Um is a
moose the animal that you're referring
to that you didn't expect to see, but
you saw?
Uh I hate to bust people's bubbles, but
I've seen uh many moose over the years.
So, that is that is not the animal in
question. All right. Do you think if if
someone were to come up with the correct
animal, then they would
be able to fine-tune their solve? Would
they Would that narrow it down if they
figured out what animal you saw?
It certainly wouldn't hurt.
And what animal is that, Justin?
>> [laughter]
>> I'm not going to volunteer yet.
I try. You know, I try. That's right.
We'd be doing my job here, you know,
anyway. So,
uh Justin, hey,
that pretty much wraps up our our
rapid-fire. Um we got a couple minutes
left. Jaws, Megan, any any last
questions that have popped up for you
for Justin? I know we we've had a list
that we wanted to go through.
I think we got everything on the list.
Perfect. Perfect.
Justin, how much do you want to Do you
want to talk at all about Secret Summit,
anything that
coming up that for that that you want to
let us know about or surprises that you
know, you want to give us a bombshell
that we can we can use to boost our
numbers to get up to to 200 viewers
instead of a 100? So,
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, gosh. Uh I mean, I think it's going
to be a great time for everybody and
you know, I I think that the total
attendee count is is a little up in the
air. Uh
You know, I I
my perspective on this is I think we're
going to be right on the edge in terms
of whether or not we can break that
world record. I mean, I think it'd be an
exciting thing for America to be able to
hold the title for the
the the Guinness treasure hunt record.
Um
But, I don't I don't think it's a
prerequisite to having fun there. Uh
You know, I I think Emma's been doing a
fantastic job in terms of drumming up
marketing and so on. And you know, I've
gotten some messages about this. Uh
You know, something to the effect that
it's a um
it seems to be kind of like the the core
focal point of the treasure hunt right
now.
Uh
And I suppose to a certain degree it is
because there are are so many people
that are making travel arrangements and
so on to be there. Uh but, I certainly
haven't lost sight of the
the treasure hunt in general. Uh and I
you know, I think Secret Summit is
actually one of those events that um you
know, Beyond the Map's Edge I I really
think that the concept of treasure
hunting, our modern-day treasure
hunting,
will actually become more popular over
time. And I like to think a venue,
whether it's Treasure Con or Secret
Summit or any of the other ones that
that that pop up, I think are going to
grow.
And so, I like I like kind of being in
on the ground floor of that and seeing
seeing it kind of take off. And that's
the other question that I've got is um
you know, why why are there
why are there commercial aspects to
the treasure hunting convention that's
happening at Secret Summit? And you
know, the answer to that is that
well, we needed funding.
>> [laughter]
>> And you know, I I'd normally be very
concerned around
mixing commercial interests with
something like Beyond the Map's Edge. I
realize how ironic that is given that it
was on Netflix, but uh
you know, I the reason that I I'm
personally okay with this is because it
is uh it's for all treasure hunt
creators. It's not just this Beyond the
Map's Edge thing. And and I think that
there's an opportunity to to pull in the
right sponsors so that the event can be
all that it can all that it should be.
And so, there are some sponsorship
implications to it, but I certainly
don't see it being in a position where
it's overshadowing
uh
you know, the the purity of of treasure
hunting. And And I think if it gets to
that point, then that would be a more
concerning discussion. But, I would love
to hear feedback after this. Um
uh Secret Summit. Mainly because uh not
just because the treasure hunt part
might be disappointing,
but the
uh
but just the honest reaction. I mean, I
think it's something that that is a good
case study and it's something we can
build on in future years. And it's not
something I'm running. It's something
that that Treasure Hunt with us and and
Froggy and and Jenny Kyle and so on are
all all putting together. Uh but, I
think it's something that can grow
uh over the years and become a real
staple of of uh of a hobby.
Excellent. Yes, we're very excited about
it. We had the same discussion last week
about that. We think we are on the kind
of the bleeding edge of the of the
treasure hunt
world. I think that there there might be
some some movement, you know, Mr. Beast
with his
Super Bowl one. You know, people are
going to try to maybe one up your
treasure or or John's treasure. You
know, there's going to be people coming
out of the woodwork to do that stuff.
So, I think you we might be on the the
edge of a phenomenon here. We'll We'll
see. So, I hope so.
Yeah. And just just remember who your
buddies were when it does happen, right?
>> [laughter]
>> Justin, you want to let people know what
you have coming up in the next couple
weeks before in the run-up to Secret
Summit? See, I wish I had a list to do a
rundown. I know that there's an
interview
with the Quarter Hoarder on YouTube
that's coming up.
I'm embarrassed that I don't recall the
date. I think it's the the 19th.
And then
I'll be on Treasure Hunt with us
tomorrow evening.
And then we're also doing a KOLD News 13
Tucson Now
uh um
streaming broadcast while
pretty close to the Secret Summit. I
think it's the day before, maybe a
couple days before. But, I'll I'll post
more info as I get it on the website.
Uh and then yeah, I mean, just for
awareness, like there's going to be
several different
media people at the Secret Summit event.
I know that uh
Outdoor Magazine is doing a a big thing
on it. And then we've got uh
I think the director or producer from
Filthy Fortunes.
Uh and then of course some of the folks
that were involved in the Netflix side.
And there's a few other media folks that
are are coming out as well. So, it'll be
just kind of a a culmination of a lot of
different backgrounds coming together.
So, I think it'll be fun. Excellent.
Sounds like a great time. Justin Posey,
Beyond the Map's Edge. JMoney, we
appreciate you being on X Marks the Pod.
It's been a great time. I I feel like
you've given some really good stuff for
the community. So looking forward to
Secret Summit, having you out there, and
maybe even getting some more nuggets
that you've kind of kind of teased that
we'll get to to experience that at the
Secret Summit. Should be a great time.
Look forward to seeing you shaking your
head out there in the 110° heat in
Tucson. Thanks so much.
>> heat here.
>> [laughter]
>> All right. Thanks, Justin. Thank you,
Justin.
See you.
Adventurous calling, [music] treasure
awaits. Join us on a journey, let's open
the gates. Welcome to the POD WHERE THE
TREASURE is found. X MARKS THE POD,
LET'S GATHER AROUND.

Oh my
Oh, look at that.
Crazy.
What is this thing, Charlie?
Oh my god. dreamed about OH MY GOD.
IT'S a cop.
>> Oh my goodness. It's a silver cop.
It's Avery L. I see it right there. IT'S
AN AVERY L.
OH, WOW.
OH, IS THAT IT?
It is.
A CUT AVERY L.
>> [cheering]
>> WELL, THAT IS A NICE COPPER COIN, but
oh, oh, Doug, do you know what time it
is? Uh
45 up. Who says 45 up, Doug? It's
quarter after.
>> [music]
[music]
>> What's up, guys? Quarter Hour here, and
welcome to a super spectacular mega
Quarter Hour live show. Uh we've got
some amazing guests coming on tonight.
Justin Posey, the man behind the uh
Forrest Fenn Netflix series that you
probably all have seen at this point. He
also started his own treasure hunt book,
uh Beyond the Map's Edge, where he's hid
his own treasure worth like over a
million dollars. I got pictures of some
of the crazy things. It's still going
on. It's out there somewhere. So, you
buy the book, you try to solve the clues
and puzzles and riddles and poems, and
maybe you'll just be the next big
millionaire.
Uh we're also going to be joined by Emma
from Treasure Hunt With Us, who runs a
YouTube channel. On her channel, she
brings on guests and other treasure
finders and hiders, and they try to put
together the pieces and see what's going
on in the community, all the clues and
gathered in one place. So, she's also
going to be liaison with Justin. They're
doing an amazing huge uh uh event coming
up in Arizona called the Secret Summit.
We're going to talk about that. And
we've got so many prizes, my head is
spinning. There's at least six giveaways
we're doing tonight. We're probably
going to add more. So, hang in there,
Doug. It's going to be a long, fun,
exciting night.
Now, let me bring in uh Mr. Dog Tag Doug
first, real quick.
Doggy, how are you, sir? Good. How are
you doing tonight? I'm living the dream,
Doug. I'm going to say a couple quick
hellos, but we've got so much to cover.
Uh so, I will come back to the chat. Uh
I want to say thank you to the
moderators who are here, because we're
going to need some help tonight. I see a
metal detectorist. Bree is here. Thank
you very much, Bree. Always uh very
helpful. Chris Wicked Digga, one of my
good metal detecting buddies from up
north. Thank you, Chris, for being here.
Uh Teresa the Treasure Hunter is here.
Teresa always super good and helpful.
And Alicia Hot Mess Fishing also. Uh
thank you, everyone, for showing up.
It's going to be an action-packed night.
Uh Doug, let me get into um a little bit
of what's going on tonight. But but
first, before I get into the treasure, I
do have to do a real quick shout-out to
uh our friend Lindiana Jones, Doug.
Um you know, she travels
>> Every Is she here? Yes.
>> Every weekend Lynn travels, and even
though this is a super busy show, I want
to give her her shout-out. Uh this
weekend Lynn will be in the uh the
antique show in Elverson, Pennsylvania.
I've never been there, never heard of it
until she told me about it.
It's not that far from us. It's not?
Yeah, if you've never seen Lynn, Lynn
sets up her incredible Pilgrim Era
antiques all around the country. Uh and
we invite viewers to go out and meet
her. You can not only check out her
one-of-a-kind antiques that going back
to the 1600s and colonial times.
But if you go up to Lynn, you can also
get your picture taken, and sometimes we
have gifts to give out. Uh this past
show, she was out last weekend, she met
this guy, his name was Ed, who's
actually starting a YouTube channel
inspired by us, Doug. He's going to call
it Whispers of the Past. But he got to
meet up with Lynn, so shout-out to Ed.
And she also met this gentleman named
Walter, who uh I think Lynn ran out of
uh giveaway pictures, Doug. The signed
pictures. We're going to take some more.
So, uh I just wanted to say thank you,
and if anybody out there lives anywhere
near the Honey Brook, Pennsylvania area,
she'll be there this weekend, Saturday
and Sunday. You can pause the show, take
a snapshot. You can draw it on a piece
of paper, whatever you got to do to
remember,
and get out there and uh check out Lynn
and some really cool antiques.
So, there's number one, Doug. Got to get
that uh got to get that in for Lynn.
Right. Do love Lynn.
Now, for the prizes tonight, Doug, we've
got so many giveaways, and I'm going to
I'm I'm let a little spoiler out. I'm
going to give the first one away in like
5 minutes. I I usually save them all to
the end. I'm not doing it this week.
We're going to sprinkle them all
throughout the show.
>> Keep everybody engaged.
>> That's right. I want everybody in. So,
I'm going to bring up the banner. If you
want to get in the giveaways, you can
type in #treasure. It's scrolling at the
bottom. #treasure. I'm going to use the
same hashtag for all the giveaways,
makes it easier.
I'm going to do the first one in a few
minutes. Now, listen, I'm Here's the
caveat, and I know people hate this, and
I'm sorry, but it's how life works.
There's always a catch. There is,
unfortunately.
Any physical prize, detector,
pinpointers, all the physical stuff, you
have to live in in the United States of
America. I know that stinks for my
international friends,
but the cost to mail things, and the
people that are doing this, you know,
their budgets are small. It's literally
like $70 to mail a a pinpointer or a
detector to another country. Yeah. So,
if uh if an international person wins a
physical prize,
um unfortunately, we'll have to draw
again. I'll try to make it up to you in
some other way.
We are giving away tickets to the mega
event coming up the end of this month.
If you're international and you win
that, you're welcome to it. Hopefully,
you can get there in time. But that, you
know,
not as tangible, we can hand that out,
and you will win win that. So, uh just
wanted to get it out there. I do see
it's tabulating. Like I said, we're
going to give the first prize away in a
minute. Let me bring up the prizes,
Doug.
We've got a lot, and I want to thank
some of the show sponsors for tonight
for donating some of the prizes.
Uh first, we have the uh AccuPoint
pinpointer,
which I was going to say we use every
single week, but Mark from Nokta, and
these prizes are donated from Nokta,
Mark messaged me yesterday and said,
"Hey, what's up with Doug not using the
AccuPoint?" And he sent me a screenshot
of this week's video.
So, uh Doug, I don't know what's up with
you not using the AccuPoint, but um
we're going to have to get you one,
because uh
Mark Mark was almost crying over the
phone.
Well, I don't want to see Mark cry, so
um
it'll be in all the videos henceforth.
There we go.
Uh but the Nokta AccuPoint pinpointer,
waterproof, completely submersible,
syncs into the wireless headphones, the
Bluetooth headphones, uh multi-toned,
uh flashlight, 360 tip, the tips are
replaceable, USB USB-C rechargeable, all
the bells and whistles. We're going to
be giving that away in probably like 3
minutes. So, make sure you put tre
#treasure in the chat to be eligible for
that.
Nokta also is giving away
a completely submersible Pulse Dive
pinpointer with the 8-in scuba coil.
This thing can go down to 200 ft deep,
Doug. You could dive the Titanic and
detect for whatever they lost at the
Titanic, if the Titanic's less than 200
ft deep. I I was just GOING TO I'M NOT
REALLY SURE HOW I'VE NEVER I'VE NEVER
BEEN THERE PERSONALLY. Miles down. Is
that what it is? All right. All right.
Well, you can bring the Pulse Dive, but
it might explode on you. Okay. Uh but
this also has all these bells and
whistles. Uh the tip can come off, you
can use it as a regular dirt detector or
in the water. It's like a 200 some
dollar value. We're going to give that
away today.
Um we're also giving away uh the Find X
Pro, um which is They market it as a
beginner detector. It's really an
amazing little machine.
>> Sophisticated for beginners. It is. It's
completely uh waterproof, also. Um and
it comes with um
the carry bag, it comes with headphones,
it comes with the premium hand digger,
uh everything you're going to need,
another 200 some dollar value. We're
going to be giving one of those away.
Again, courtesy of our good friends at
Nokta detectors.
Uh and then Ryan from another channel
sponsor, metaldetectingshop.com,
he got in on the action and is giving
away a triple score pro pack bundle.
And Doug, you know I did a whole video
tutorial on this machine from top to
bottom.
It's one of the best machines out there.
It's like over 500 bucks. We're going to
be giving one of those today.
And the triple score pro pack bundle
comes with uh the detector itself, two
different double D search coils, and
those are expensive on their own, and
Bluetooth low latency headphones, a
whole incredible package. We're going to
be giving that away tonight.
And then, of course, Emma and Justin are
giving away four tickets to the Secret
Summit event coming up in 2 weeks. I'm
going to give those away in pairs. So,
I'll give away two to one winner, two to
another winner, so you can come with a
guest.
And I have a feeling, Doug, over the
course of the show,
there might be even more things added.
Uh don't quote me on that. Okay.
>> But I think I think so. So, again, you
have to live in the United States of
America. And when I do the drawing,
which is going to look something like um
I'm going to bring it up right now cuz
we're going to do one in in in 2
seconds. Let me bring this up.
I want to do one before I bring Emma on.
Uh, there's 268 people entered so far.
Again, you have to be in America for the
physical prize. I apologize to my
international friends.
Uh, and we're going to do one in 2.3
seconds
for an AccuPoint waterproof submersible
pinpointer that'll sink into the
headphones, the whole kitten caboodle.
It's an incredible piece of technology
that I use uh, myself. So, um, like I
said, I want to scatter them so people
don't just leave and show up at the end
trying to win something.
So, uh, we're going to do the first one
right now, Doug. If you win, if I call
your name, you have to be here. You have
1 minute to put your zip code in the
chat. If I don't see your zip code, then
I have to assume you're not here and
draw another winner. Uh, it's the only
way to kind of keep it fair so people
don't uh, pop in and leave.
And I am going to, I know people don't
like this either, Doug. I'm going to
slow the chat down to 30 seconds because
it's getting a little a little hectic.
>> cross-eyed looking at it.
>> I'm slowing it down. I'll give everyone
uh, 20 more seconds or so now that they
can't type as quickly to put in
#treasure. I want everyone to get, you
know, as many uh, giveaway opportunities
as possible.
So, don't spam the chat because you're
going to need to put your zip code in if
you win.
But um, you know, to help my moderators
see your zip code or anything, I got to
slow it down a little bit.
All right, Doug, 300 people are in. Are
you ready? We're going to do the first
one of the day. I can't bring the
picture up while this is up. But this is
going to be for a Nokta uh, AccuPoint
pinpointer.
And Doug, I know you love doing the drum
rolls. Would you mind giving me the drum
roll, Doug?
>> spit all over my monitor here.
>> That's why that's why I blocked your
face out. Go ahead.
Oh, [clears throat] that's not bad.
You're getting better. You're getting
better.
Good luck, everybody. Good luck.
AccuPoint pinpointer.
You can stop. Okay. Digger Eddie, 2051.
Digger Eddie, congratulations.
And look who's on on the uh, avatar. Uh,
Cousin Eddie. Oh, yeah, you're right
from uh, National Lampoon's. Yes. Yeah.
Uh, Digger Eddie, I need you to um,
whoops, that's not what I wanted. I need
you to put your zip code into the chat,
my friend. You got You got a minute.
And then we're going to start bringing
the guests in. Uh, congratulations, you
won an AccuPoint waterproof multi-toned
submersible
super cool pinpointer. [laughter]
Keep your eyes out for Eddie, Doug. All
right. Now, listen, uh, while I'm
waiting for Eddie, I want to um, just
announce again who's coming on and I've
got a little bit of a snafu, Doug, that
we found out 10 minutes before the show
comes on.
>> ago. Yes, yes.
So, um,
in a second I'm going to be bringing on
Emma from the YouTube channel Treasure
Hunt With Us, who like I up, I Bree just
texted me. Eddie, I missed it, but Bree
texted me. Thank you, Bree.
So, Eddie, congratulations, you won.
I'm bringing in first um,
Emma from Treasure Hunt With Us, who
probably knows more about Justin and
this hunt than almost anybody. She
covers it on her channel
every week along with the John Collins
Black Hunt and some other hunts going
on. I don't even know them all, but she
does.
She gave me the unfortunate uh, bad news
that
Justin's going to be late. He is his
airplane is stuck in like a flying
holding pattern.
And when he lands, which should be in
maybe 10 minutes, he's going to run
through the airport and try to get a
signal.
So, I apologize. He will be here, but
not at 7:30
uh, when everyone else is here.
Uh, but we're going to start off without
him because um, the show must go on,
Doug. Yes. And uh, let me know uh, my
moderators, is the chat manageable or is
it still too fast?
Uh, please let me know before I bring
Emma on and I can lower the I've got 1
minute. Let me know if you need You guys
can text me
um, if you know my phone number.
So, um, let's bring her in, Doug. Again,
this is Emma who does the YouTube
channel Treasure Hunt With Us with Jam,
who I think is her brother. I just met
her, but I'm excited to get to know her
more.
She is a guru of all these treasure
hunts and knows more than almost anyone
else on the planet. So, let's welcome
her to the big show. Emma. And Emma, I'm
going to put you on the big side. Hang
on. I'm going to put you on the big
side. You get the big side.
Listen, I do love the biggest screen at
all times. Yes, it looks it looks good.
Thank you very much for taking time out.
I know you got to be swamped trying to
get ready for the Secret Summit show.
We got a couple things going on and
thank you so much for having me.
Hopefully Justin will find time to jump
on anytime He's going to get He's going
to get here. I'm He's going to get here.
We believe. We believe, but we're so
excited to be here. We're so excited for
all your support and Mark from Nokta,
he's one of our sponsors for Secret
Summit and he's fantastic. There's a lot
to get into. I'm going to let you do the
talking since it's usually me. Yeah,
uh, Mark is an awesome dude. Um, I talk
to him almost every single day. One one
of my closest friends along with Doug
and my crew. Yeah, yeah, and just a a
great guy.
Uh, donated a lot of the prizes for
today.
>> that. Oh my gosh.
>> oh, he's amazing. You're going to like
him. He's a super good guy.
Um, so yes, uh, I couldn't thank Mark
enough for all the prizes tonight. Uh,
but I'm going to jump in and I know
Justin's not here. My first couple of
questions were from Justin, but I know
you and Justin's relationship is very
close, so I'm going to have you kind of
answer on his behalf.
And uh, my first question, which is
going to be weird asking Justin,
was was, you know, with all the
nationwide success that the Netflix show
brought of the Forrest Fenn treasure and
all that hoopla,
and now that it's over and you started
your own treasure hunt,
uh, I wanted to see was there anything
that you now understand as a hider that
wasn't even on your radar when you were
a finder? Like has your perspective
changed now that you're on the other
side of that envelope?
Well, he has given me the Posy proxy to
answer questions. So,
I can tell you what he's said about Emma
Emma, did you just send me a super chat?
You're the guest.
>> [laughter]
>> Emma. There's two pieces of Oh, is that
Is that Is that Jam? Jam to me. All
right. Jam, thank you. Normally the
guests don't have to shower me with
gifts, but thank you, Jam. That was very
nice of you. I love what he says on his
favorite. That's You are you are the
favorite. All right. I I didn't mean to
interrupt you. Go ahead. No, no, it's
okay. You You asked a really great
question because how can there not be
things that are different from going
from a hide or a a hunter to a hider,
right? And the thing that I that anybody
who's watching this and is a treasure
hunter for our kinds of treasure versus
your kinds of treasure, which all
treasure's treasure and I don't
discriminate. Um, is that
you know, there's so much to go into it.
And one of the things that makes us
fortunate in our Beyond the Map Search
world is that Justin Posy is
outrageously analytical. And before he
ever
bought the Forrest Fenn treasure and
decided to He had already decided he was
going to hide it. Like he believed that
he and his brother Brandon were going to
go find this treasure and his goal was
always to re-hide it. That was the
intent. So, I think for him some of his
bigger challenges are more legal, right?
Because there's a lot of legalities that
go into it. And there's actually a whole
portion of his book.
Um, and I think that and sometimes you
put millions of dollars out there and
then
all the heck breaks loose. Yeah.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah, I I know when I watched the show
and the the Netflix show and I I
rewatched it this week as a refresher
cuz I saw it a year ago. I think it's
the 1-year anniversary. The 27th. We're
going to be having a nice reception in
honor of it. I'm going to get to that.
Yeah, so next week, which is will be the
1-year anniversary of the show, I
believe Justin's book also and to
celebrate the Secret Summit convention,
which we'll we'll we'll we'll we're
going to get into a little bit later.
Uh, I didn't realize that his his
intention the whole time was when the
treasure was found to keep it going by
by re-hiding it again, which is uh, you
know, quite you know,
to have the foresight to be able to do
that
uh, knowing everything that he went
through, all of the time and and emotion
and all that.
Um, I've got so many questions for him
here.
When when Let me Let me start start at
the beginning here. Okay. Let me roll
back cuz now I'm a little bit
discombobulated. If you go back to the
beginning We're sorry. We're sorry. It's
okay. It's okay. I'm looking at you, but
I'm asking Justin.
That's okay. I'll do my best. What
pulled Justin into the Forrest Fenn hunt
in the first place? How did he get wind
of it? How did he get involved in the
earliest stages?
So, there's a couple things to know.
Justin is actually a lifelong treasure
hunter. So, at a very young age,
Justin's uncle Hiram gave him a book all
about treasure and at that moment all he
could see was treasure all around him,
right? So, growing up, he was like and
he he grew up in Arizona and some of his
family was in a place called Cloudcroft.
I struggle with that one. New Mexico.
And his family
has ties to the Victorio Peak treasure
hunt. So, here he is, this 8-year-old
boy or young boy, probably I shouldn't
give the date. But this young boy who's
just in awe and just falls madly in love
with the hunt of treasure. Fast forward,
we become adults, we go through life.
Justin's uh, very brilliant coder and IT
guy and he's living in Washington
working for Microsoft and the grind is
real, right? Many of us know, we're
9-to-5ers, you know, who want to want or
need a hobby on the side, but sometimes
real world gets daunting. His wife opens
up a magazine, reads about Forrest Fenn
and she's like, this is what you need.
This is what you need on the side so you
have that thing that separates the
binary from reality. And so that's what
really drove Justin
to just
become more than engaged to become
basically obsessed with Forrest Fenn. I
mean he had so many boots on the ground.
It's insane.
>> [clears throat]
>> Yeah, and back then and then forgive me
like cuz I came into this late. I didn't
really know much about it until the
Netflix show, but this had been going on
for years.
Uh when when I'm going to say it was
more underground. I'm sure maybe in your
world it wasn't, but in my world it was
kind of underground until the Netflix
and then it just exploded onto the
scene. So how did that come about where
he's doing his thing for years searching
for this on his weekends his extra time
and then all of a sudden it's found, it
gets on the news and then Netflix reach
out to him and he's a big part of the
series. How did that did that all happen
very quickly? Was he aware of it? What
was that experience like of going from
not really being well known and then all
of a sudden he's thrown out in center
stage?
Well, I think the one thing about the
Forrest Fenn community is it's very
niche, right? And so Forrest goes out
and decides he's dying, right? And he's
like I got to do this. I got to hide a
treasure. I've got to do something like
my last hurrah, if you will, right? So
he goes and he hides a treasure. But
he's also like this prolific writer. And
so he writes a book and like you see in
the show, he goes in and he goes, "Hey,
would you would you put my book up on
the shelf?" And
the rest is kind of hunting history,
right? But
throughout the process I mean it was a
10-year stint. So it wasn't quick. It
wasn't overnight. And that first 5 years
until there was an article, I can't
remember it was like some kind of travel
magazine wrote an article and all of a
sudden then it took off and many of the
Forrest Fenn hunters actually knew each
other. They used to do something called
Fennboree. Not that I don't remember if
Justin ever went to Fennboree. I feel
like he didn't, but I don't want to
speak about on behalf of things I'm not
positive of. But he really got in. So
there was if you do like a deep dive of
Forrest Fenn, you'll see that there's
YouTubers just like what you and I do
out there doing Forrest Fenn stuff and
you can actually find Justin on people's
show. Um and stuff like that. And so I
think that he always had a love of it.
And there was actually an episode on a
show for a person called Amy Seek where
he talks about what he would do if he
was hiding a treasure. And you can see
when you're watching that that that that
moment didn't start at that scene.
>> That moment started when he was eight.
That moment started and every year after
and every day he went out and looked for
that treasure from that moment on. And
so for him I think that it became a
point where he believed he was going to
find it. And then when it was found, I
suspect something happened where it just
flipped and it was just time to go buy
it and re-hide it again because that was
always the intent. Yeah, and I would
imagine in that mindset like he
dedicated so much of his life along with
all the other seekers. That's the term,
Doug, seekers. We're seekers. They're
seekers. So when you dedicate your your
life to this and all your free time and
making the relationships in the
community and then it's found it's like
it's over. Right. You don't want that to
end. So it's almost like you feel like
you have to keep it going because that's
part of your identity. Sure.
But now even though he's a hider
he can't participate. So he's still in
the community and he's still involved,
but yet
he has to enjoy it from the other side
of the envelope. How how does he deal
with that where he loves being a
treasure hunter, but obviously you can't
hunt for your own treasure. So now he
has to kind of sit back. He might watch
people on your show
talk about their ideas. Maybe they're on
the right track. Maybe they're not, but
he can't quite say, but you know, he
wants to and how does that that new
reality fit where he's on the complete
other side of the coin? Okay, well
that's a great question. The
>> [clears throat]
>> The truth is this is that seekers, we
will be seekers for our whole lives. It
doesn't matter if we also become hiders.
We're always going to want to find
something. We love the unknown. We love
the puzzle. You know, there's that that
part of you that that like yearns for
the those days when you had to come in
because the lights went out or came on.
You know what I mean? We're those kind
of people. That's who we are. And then
there's that part of you that's always
trying to stretch your brain. And that's
that part of that childlike wonder that
almost fades into the past, right?
But I think that what you find with
Justin is like he could engage in hunts
that maybe he didn't do, but but there's
two kinds of hiders also, right? There's
the hider that's over you know, never
involved or like has a very limited you
know, interaction with the community cuz
the community is pretty much out there,
right? And the community is not just
Discord and not just YouTube or
Facebook. It's the community is a
community. You can find someone in
almost any kind of social media platform
or even just base email many times. And
so you have the person who's really
detached. And then you have people who
are more I wouldn't say entrenched, but
I would say available.
And Justin's done a really great job of
participating
and be being pretty available to
to meet seekers. Like for example, uh
last year we went out and we hunted in
Montana and we stayed at a place called
the Grasshopper Inn. It's this beautiful
little tiny when I say tiny I mean it's
in Polaris, Montana. I mean it's a dot
on a map. It happens to be a dot on his
map, but we're staying there and
literally Justin goes in and has dinner
at this place. And so we're sitting
there we knew we were going to be eating
dinner with him and
but the [snorts] second we're sitting
there hunters or seekers after one after
another are coming in and he's just
available. He's like asks them, says,
"Hey, how's it going? Where'd you hunt
today?" Shakes hands, signs books. I
always say shakes hands, kisses babies.
You know, he
he just does it right. He engages
without providing clues that not
everybody else would have. He's never
going to cross the line. I'm going to
bring up just an article here. His
website where it kind of explains the
hunt. There's a link to it in the
description. It's not a traditional www
address,
but there's a link to it. You can see it
up in the top here. It does go into a
little bit of his bio.
Uh it goes into the treasure a little
bit. The actual treasure that he re-hid.
Uh some of which are pieces from the
actual Forrest Fenn treasure that he
found.
Um they touched about that on the show,
but in case someone didn't see it how
did he wind up cuz Justin wasn't the
finder of the trea- of the Forrest Fenn
treasure. How did he get even get in
possession of these actual pieces from
the Forrest Fenn hunt which consumed so
much of his life?
So he actually bought the treasure from
an auction house.
And so Jack Stuef who is the treasure
finder and I'm always, you know, like
all fun hunt communities and I assume
that you guys have it in your hunt
there's always conspiracies, right? But
to my knowledge Jack Stuef found that
treasure in June of 2020 in
I always say this wrong. Yellowstone
National Park. I always say Yosemite.
Okay.
>> National Park. Yeah, I've heard of that.
>> of Nine Mile Hole.
And um
Sorry, I laugh at myself. Um but so Jack
Stuef found it. And then he con- he
contacted Forrest and the process
started and then he he sold the treasure
through an auction house. And again,
like I said, Justin's intent if he found
it or had found it with his brother was
always to re-hide that treasure. Always
to go out there and give some back to
the hunters. And he did. He gave he sent
little bits of that treasure to so many
hunters that he knew cuz he's he's a
super generous guy. I mean people are
like, "Oh well, he hid a treasure out in
the forest. So I mean he sounds pretty
generous." But like there's something
special about the way he makes sure that
people know that he saw them, right? And
that that so he went and he found that
and he put one of the biggest pieces,
the dragon bracelet, is in this and it's
big and it's fantastic. And you know,
there's
um
oh my gosh, I can't believe I can't
think of the name of it. The shilling.
Oh my gosh, my my whole hunt community
is probably going, "I can't believe she
doesn't know the name of the shilling."
It's like the first he's like in the
show he says, "It's the beginning or
it's may- it's the beginning of us. It's
the Oh my gosh, I'm sure it's in the
chat right now.
>> Well, I actually have a picture of it
because it that the shilling is one of
the things that as a detectorist we look
for.
Yeah, like this is what we look for
every year. And to give you an idea of
the price in in the treasure that Justin
re-hid, he hid a 1654
oak tree shilling that was graded in
MS64. In the coin world
you know, MS70 is the most mint and then
you go down. So this one which is an
MS61, a poorer quality than Justin's, is
still worth $60,000. His is probably
closer to 100,000 uh just for this one
thing. And there is the treasure chest
is packed, you know, along with like you
said the the dragon bracelet. filled to
the gills. Really? Yes, it's filled to
the gills. You talk about like the
things that he says that people like
jump onto and they can't let let go of
it because we don't know what the
container is. Like you you interviewed
John Collins Black from There's Treasure
Inside and he shows you what the boxes
look like. Yeah. They look like this,
but bigger, right? They have big size
boxes. You know what you're looking for.
But in the case of Justin posing Beyond
the Map's Edge, all we know is that
there's a container out there. They
don't know what it is.
>> recognizable to us when we get there.
Yeah, yeah. There was another thing,
Doug. I never heard of this. Um
but on his and I can't bring up both
pictures at once.
But on his website when he goes into the
treasure, he said he in the hunt are
several of these which I guess are
called
pamp sues? I don't even know.
>> Sweet. Pamp suey. Pamp suey. He said
there's several of them in there and the
going price on one
$163,000.
And he's got several in there.
So when I put in the thumbnail that he's
got a million dollar treasure, it might
be closer to two two and a half with how
much inflation's been Exactly. creeping
in the last couple of years. I think
maybe even more. I mean you have to
remember, filled to the gills with gold
coins and the gills.
filled to the gills gold coins and then
then you have the intrinsic value of the
fact this is a hidden treasure.
Filled to the gills is how Doug spends
every breakfast.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh, poor Doug.
>> No, I don't.
>> Oh, I could I like to just get I just
like to get some
I like to get some some Oh, listen, um I
see in the chat people are asking if
Justin's going to be here. We said in
the opening of the show that there was a
slight delay on his plane. He was
circling getting ready to land. When he
lands, he's going to run to a signal. He
will be here, knock on wood, um to uh to
participate in the
in the show.
>> Here's the thing, guys. If you're here
from like
our side of treasure hunting, you know
he's doing everything in his power to
get here if he can. But if you've
traveled at all in the last couple
weeks, it's a TSA nightmare and it's
completely outside of his control. He
had every intentions of being here.
Heck, on our show last night, he talked
about it. He was excited. He's been
dying to meet Jason. And if he can be
here, he's going to be here. But for
now, we all know we're going to answer
the questions. We're going to do the
best we can because we have a huge event
coming up. And because he's not here,
Jason, what do you think if we give away
a signed copy of Beyond the Map's Edge?
>> Oh, that would be wonderful.
>> that Do we do that too today? A signed
copy of Beyond the Map's Edge? We can
add that to the mix also. I mean, you're
going to see him next week.
Uh that would be wonderful. What a good
prize that is. Not only
>> And I heard you say you're going to give
away four tickets in pairs. What if I
gave you four more tickets for your
pairs? Whoa. Oh,
so eight
so eight total tickets. Well, come on,
guys. That's pretty that's pretty darn
good. The it just gets And talking about
that, Emma, I am going to stop right now
for just a quick minute and we're going
to give something else away.
I'm going to give away I want to mix
them in the whole show. I'm going to
give away right now, courtesy of Nokta
Detectors, their Pulse Dive Pinpointer
goes down to 200 uh plus feet into the
into the water. You can use it on land.
It's a 200-some dollar value.
The the Pulse Dive Pinpointer, if you're
not familiar with it, is the handheld
little wand that detectors use. Mark
said a lot of the seekers will actually
uh tape it to like a staff and shove it
in trees and in bushes where you can't
see and that will go off. So, I'm going
to give one away right now again. Again,
for the physical prizes, you have to
live in America or at least ship it to
America.
Uh just for money cost. As great as the
guy as Mark is, his budget is $0 and 0
cents. So, I try not to spend his money
any more than I than I have to.
So, uh I'm going to do one right now.
You got to be here. If I call your name,
you got to put your zip code in the
chat. You're going to have 1 minute.
Just a reminder, you got to put hashtag
treasure. Yes, it's scrolling at the
bottom. For anyone that came in after
you made the announcement earlier. Yeah,
I'm going to leave it scrolling. Hashtag
treasure. Make sure you put in that that
hashtag is is good for every giveaway we
do tonight. I'm going to keep reusing
it. The only caveat is you got to be in
America and you got to be in the chat.
If I call your name, you'll have 1
minute to put the zip code in.
And uh we're going to draw again right
now for the Pulse Dive Pinpointer with
the 8-in coil. Emma,
would you give me the honors of your
best tongue drum roll?
Oh my god, I don't even know what that
means. I'm like
You know, you give me you got
Right. Right.
>> [laughter]
>> I'm not very good.
>> that was good enough. Neither am I. Go
ahead. That was good. She did it. Good
luck, everybody. Pulse Dive Pinpointer
8-in coil.
>> familiar names go by. This is great.
LIGHTSABER OH, YOU KNOW LIGHTSABER
SWEDE. OH, CONGRATS.
I like it when someone we know wins.
Lightsaber Swede, I don't know you. I
need you to put your zip code in the
chat. Just your zip code. Nothing else.
Don't put your address, your phone
number, your social security number.
Just your zip code. That way we can
figure out who everybody is after the
show. Fun fact, he just was at another
event that we went to in Las Vegas in
January and it was there was a a costume
contest and he dressed up in a T-shirt
that had all the shirts my brother and I
jam all over him. It says things like
"Justin didn't poop in the bathtub" or
"It's It looked like a shirt LOOKED LIKE
A PICKLE JAR TO ME" AND LIKE ALL the
different crazy shirts my brother wears,
he put them all over his shirt. It was
my favorite. It was
coolest, yeah. I did see uh the zip code
in uh in the chat. So, thank you very
much. I'm going to bring it up real
quick cuz I got to toggle between nine
different uh windows.
I'm going to bring up in case uh they
came in late. Uh this is what you've
won. What's his name? You you know his
name?
Uh
I I will just call him What I mean, his
username is screen name.
>> call him the Swede. The Swede. All
right, this is what you won, the Swede.
The Pulse Dive
uh submersible pinpointer. 200-some
dollar value. Excellent. I use one
myself.
Um and listen, if you've never treasure
hunted with an extra piece of apparatus,
this is the one you want. So, uh
congratulations, my friend. It's the one
I want now. After talking to Mark, he
has me completely convinced I need all
of them. Well, wait till you see next
week. Uh he's coming out and uh our good
friend uh from metaldetectingshop.com,
who is a detecting dealer, is going to
be there also. Oh, wow.
>> Uh not only donated a prize for tonight,
but he's going to have a table full of
detecting gear. So, you'll really get
Fantastic. I when I called some of your
show, uh there he is. metaldetectingshop
is in the chat right now. So, his name
is Ryan. You'll meet him next week.
Well, I can't wait to meet you. Come say
hi. Yes, he's a good dude. He's a good
dude. Um
and we'll get it and we're going to get
into that later. Let me get back to my
thing. Like I said, I'm trying to mix
them in again. So, now now with Justin's
book, I guess he was sort of inspired
from Forrest Fenn, the way he did it.
Justin put his own book out. Uh is it's
also, I'm guessing, the same thing.
Riddles, clues, poems that someone has
to interpret. Um you know, from someone
like you, Emma, who follows this very
closely, has Discords and Facebook
groups,
do you get any inclination that people
are getting closer? Anyone who's got
solves that you think might be going
down the right track? What advice can
you give to someone who's out there
looking for this thing?
Well, there's a few things. We're We're
fortunate. One of the One of the I
wouldn't call it a flaw cuz I don't
think any hunts are really flawed. One
of the things that Justin didn't love
about Forrest's hunt is that you could
think you were so close and not There
were no guardrails. So, he put what he
calls guardrails in his book. They're in
the form of a checkpoint. And so, I want
to say back in like August-ish,
September, he said that somebody had
been within 200 ft of the checkpoint.
So, I do think that people have gotten
close. I think that just like all
treasure hunts, you know, you're going
to read every word, you're going to, you
know, analyze all the data and, you
know, there's a tendency to have some
rabbit holes and when he released the
audio book, it felt like what it was
trying to tell us in some ways is try to
keep it simple. Don't overcomplicate it.
And he's actually done several
interviews since then where he's saying
like, "Have fun with it." And it's it's
never his intent to draw you away from
your rabbit holes. Who doesn't love a
good rabbit hole? I have great shovels.
But, you know, just be cognizant of the
fact that your confirmation bias may
lead you in the wrong direction. You
have to have your own guardrails to keep
you back in line.
Yeah, when I when I saw the Forrest Fenn
uh Netflix series, I noticed that all of
the searchers that were uh you know, the
stars of that series,
every one of them thought they had the
answer. They solved it. There was this
tree or this river bend or this
mountain.
And once you have that in your mind that
you know where it is,
then the other clues you make fit into
your narrative
to affirm it. And then when you go out
and it's not there, it's got to be
devastating. Do you find that people
overthink these puzzles? Do they
underthink it? What's the mindset of
someone going out, putting boots on the
ground, traveling across the country,
you know, in hopes that they had it
right?
Well, I mean, it's funny. It's like you
described my first boots on the ground.
But um it's, you know, I think it's a
little bit of everything, right? And
that's kind of the good and the bad.
There are overthinkers and we You cannot
You cannot convince a hunter to come
away from their thought. You just can't.
Not that you'd even really want to
because what if you accidentally
discouraged someone and they were in the
right place? But But there's what
confirmation bias is probably the
strongest bias. There's location bias.
So, the number of people who were like,
"Oh my gosh, I read this and I know
exactly where it was." And we saw that
in Golden Greed, right? When when the
hearse were like, "This is Cody and buy
a Cody, right?" So,
we, you know, it's something that really
happens and these things are real. And
so, when you're asking yourself, cuz
these trips are not inexpensive,
especially if you're like me where I
live on the East Coast and I'm I don't
even want to tell you how many trips out
West I took last year. It's kind of
embarrassing. And again, I still have no
treasure, but I have amazing memories.
So, you have to refine and refine and
then ask yourself, is that a clue or an
idea or is that just like me wishing it
was a clue?
Yeah, yeah. One of my moderators, Bree,
said she's wondering if the book in your
window is a clue. And that's a I don't
mean to say [laughter] this is not
This is a clue to John Collins' book.
This is one of his clues for his book.
So, for So, yes, it is a clue, but to a
different hunt because there's three
multi-million dollar hunts in at Secret
Summit this this next week. Another one
of the hunts will be going on. We'll
have a Q&A for that multi-million dollar
hunt as well uh called Treasure Quest,
which is a cryptocurrency hunt. So,
there's so much hunting happening.
>> Oh, wow. Yeah, we're going to get into
that. I'm going to see if John uh I
mean, I'm sorry. If uh
if Justin shows up before we get to the
Secret Summit. If not, we will do it
without him. Hopefully, he's running
through an airport somewhere right now.
>> Sounds like we may be getting closer if
it's possible, for sure.
>> Yeah. Well, we're going to hope so.
Um let me see let me go through my my
other questions here. And if anybody out
there has a question for Emma or for
John, and Emma might be able to answer
them. Please feel free to to I'm sorry.
What do I I'm getting I'm just about it.
>> thank you, Doug. Thank you. Oh, Doug
speaks. That's
>> [clears throat]
>> Doug does speak. When I can get a word
in edgewise. I know it's a lot of
talking on here. I can't imagine with us
two that's ever going to be easy. Yeah.
So so like we said earlier, this is
going to be the one-year anniversary of
the book, the show, and all that. Is
does Justin actively follow the hunt
online? Like is he Is he lurking in the
groups? Is he constantly watching out?
Or is he kind of like John Collins Black
told me he doesn't really get involved.
He has people that'll give him updates,
but he kind of stays out of it. I got
the impression Justin's a little more,
you know, in the in the mix.
>> He is. Well, here's what I'll tell you.
Justin Posey reads every email sent to
him himself.
Oh.
>> all the DMs. He does not reply to all of
them because you can imagine he doesn't
reply to
most of them, I would bet, because he's
never going to give an advantage
in a way that other people wouldn't also
have it. So like he would like for
probably I would bet I mean I'd be
guessing, but I would bet that is this
the checkpoint is probably the most
common question he gets. And he's never
going to reveal that to just one person.
He's not going to be like, "You're
right. That super secret place is the
exact checkpoint and only you get to
know about it. Go find it, kiddo." No,
he would only it talk to or speak to
these things in group settings. So like
if we he had a Q&A when we were in
Dillon, Montana last year in June and I
mean he literally after we were outside
for almost 10 hours um signing he was
signing books for almost 10 hours. He
then went inside and did like a 3-hour
long Q&A where he would a 2 and 1/2-hour
long Q&A answering questions given to
him by the crowd.
Wow.
>> that's the format that he likes to
really kind of answer detailed
questions, but he himself reads his
emails. He reads his DMs. He is lurking
in the background on Discord and
Facebook groups. And because he wants to
keep his fingertips on the pulse of it.
He's not He's in a I mean he interacts a
lot with people on Facebook and and he's
like come and jumped into a live chat on
our Discord before. I mean there's He's
very active. And to your point, yeah,
John has decided that for him it's best
to be, you know, a little bit hands-off.
It's just a different kind of hunt just
like I suspect there's different places
you go and hunt for metal detecting.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Uh there's some
questions in here. Mike Trokler asking,
"Where do we get the book and the
website info?"
Uh you can get the book and there's
links in the description of this live
stream.
Uh this is his website on here. If you
want to copy it, the website link is
also in the description. Goes over all
the information. He has links. You can
get it on Amazon. The book is called
Beyond the Map's Edge and it has all the
puddle puddles puzzles
poems everything you're going to need,
you know, with some ingenuity and some
deciphering.
But as of today, that treasure is still
out there waiting to be found.
Um you know, my next question about was
exactly for that that it's waiting to be
found. Right. What sort of safeguards
does Justin have where if it does get
found, the finder will reach out to him
or let him know so that Justin doesn't
think it's still waiting and really was
found 2 months ago.
So he has he will know. There's a
steward. There's some features. There's
some things. So
when the when the treasure is found, he
will know.
He doesn't really tell you how he'll
know, but there's also a steward
involved. So you will reach out to the
steward. There's additional things
beyond just the treasure that you just
walked up and grabbed, you know. He says
that it will be a retrieval mission when
you go to get it. Once you've really
truly unraveled his poem, um it will be
a retrieval. So you'll go out, you'll
get it, and then you'll contact the
steward. And so the moment that the
treasure is found, Justin will have He
has committed to posting it that they're
where they have 30 days to come forward
from the moment that the treasure is
found on treasure.quest,
which is his website.
Okay. Okay. And I think I read that
within the
the treasure is some sort of crypto and
I don't know much about crypto, so I
apologize.
>> a Bitcoin wallet that's associated cuz
Justin didn't do this to make money. He
did this because he just wanted to he
he loved what he did. He loved what
Forrest gave him, the time he gave him
with his brother, the inspiration it
gave him to get away from a you know,
the four walls of an office and get
outside and see the world. Justin is so
about the, you know, the energy of being
outside and just going out and seeing
things that are beautiful that you'd
never seen before. And as a person who
prior to this literally February of last
year, I had never hiked in my life. Um I
don't think I had any clue that there
was such beauty waiting to be seen, you
know. And that's what he wanted to give
to people and he did that for that
purpose. And so the Bitcoin wallet,
every time
somebody buys a book, money goes into
the Bitcoin wallet and that's part of
what you'll get if once you meet the
steward, they'll give it to you. HERE HE
IS.
AH, [screaming] BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.
Better late than
>> [laughter]
>> Hey, Doug. How are you doing?
I'm glad you made it.
People thought we were lying that we you
weren't really coming on.
>> [laughter]
>> No, that's terrible. No, I I TSA
situation right now. It's just
everything is really backed up and I
just was not where I thought I was going
to be.
>> [laughter]
>> Don't worry. I've been talking to him
for like 4 hours.
>> minutes, so yeah. We We got to fly next
week, too, and I'm worried for the same
thing. Doug and I got to go.
>> you. Yeah, hopefully it'll clear up by
then.
Well, I'm glad Listen, I'm glad you made
it, but uh we're out of here. So I'll
see you GUYS NEXT WEEK.
>> [laughter]
>> WELL, THAT WAS EASY. HE'S A HE'S A
jokester that way. [laughter]
No, look at Listen, Emma Emma was
playing your role answering all the
questions that we had for you. She does
a terrific job. But it is nice to see
your handsome face to be a people to
validate it. And I would love to get
some some of yours even though Emma
certainly did an incredible job.
Um so I'm going to jump in. I know
you're a little late. You may have
missed a lot of the questions that we
already asked there. We're going to get
to the Seeker Summit in a second.
But I got to ask one of the questions
here and forgive me again, like I said,
if you are coming in late.
Um if your treasure goes on and hasn't
been found in X amount of years, do you
have a time frame where you might
release additional hints or clues? Or if
it goes your whole lifetime, then it
goes your whole lifetime.
Oh my gosh.
>> [laughter]
>> I really can't imagine it lasting that
long. You never know. You never know.
>> Some days I'm surprised it's lasted as
long as it has.
Yeah, I mean I I I think I think it's a
balance because there's
you know, there are a lot of people that
have worked hard on this and I I don't
want to alienate them by
uh pushing things along too far, but at
the same time I would like to see
progress. So I I think I think there's
some kind of balance to be struck there
and I just need to decide what it is.
And so yeah, I mean there'll certainly
be some
I guess you can call them pointers or
hints released at the at the Seeker
Summit coming up. And then beyond that,
uh we'll we'll take it day by day and
see.
Yes, I'm going to get to the Seeker So
we haven't even touched on that. I'm
going to get to that in 2 minutes.
Um I'll go one or more questions for you
about the hunt, you know, your hunt
before we get into the event.
Um
one of the questions I got a lot was
because you were
a seeker for so long for Forrest Fenn's
treasure and now on the other side of
the coin as a hider,
uh is there anything now watching the
community go out and seek for your
puzzle that you're second-guessing
yourself on how you designed it or how
you hid it? Like in seeing how it's
unfolding, do you think like, "Oh, I
should have did it a little bit
different"? Because there's not exactly
a blueprint for doing this.
Yeah, that's true.
Uh nobody's ever asked me that before.
Um
Hm.
You know, I
I'm actually feeling pretty good about
it. There's nothing that
that I regret and I think that it's all
working out just about as well as I
could hope for. So uh I'm pretty pleased
with it.
All right. Well, that's good. That's
good. And I appreciate you walking
walking through the airport as you're
I'm surprised he's even got a signal,
Doug.
>> Are you trying to make a connection,
Justin?
>> [laughter]
>> I am. He actually leaves in 2 minutes,
so
>> [laughter]
>> Uh well, we we might get there in time.
We We might be losing him again. But
hey, at least he's here. Everyone gets
to see see his face.
Um so so that's good. Let me bring in
real fast Justin
>> [laughter]
>> I get
I want to talk about the Seeker Summit.
And the Seeker Summit
is a mega event that Emma and Justin are
coordinating together to put on for the
community.
Uh can you guys go over either Emma or
Justin
how you came up with the idea and what
people can expect from this mega
convention?
You want me to take it, Justin, since
you're a little late?
>> You want to take that one? Yeah, go for
it. Go for it.
Okay. So like I think I Justin we were
talking about doing something when
Justin was talking about a book show
that was going to happen in the spring.
And so he had always anticipated that he
was going to do something, but we didn't
know what it was cuz we were waiting on
some information. And then the book the
book show
disappointingly went another direction
from their perspective cuz it will never
sell as many tickets now. But from our
perspective, gave us an opportunity to
do a collaboration with some of the
largest YouTube hunt hunt channels that
are out there including Mysterious
Writings and SD's Quest, Treasure Hunt
with us and bring Justin and a whole
conglomerate of people
that are hunt creators, hunt
participators in the golden the cast of
Golden Greed, and Jared, the director of
Golden Greed, out to have a major
all-day event.
Um it started as something like that and
then Justin never does anything small.
And as you're talking through things,
he's like, "What if we had a treasure
hunt and we tried to go for a Guinness
Book of World Records?" And I'm just
like, "Okay." Pretty much every time I
talk to him he's like he just throws
something at me. He goes, "What do you
think about this?" And I'm like,
>> [laughter]
>> "Okay."
Yeah, I mean I was surprised. I mean you
were going the event could possibly get
a Guinness Book of World Records for the
largest attended treasure hunt in the
world.
We need a little help for those trying
to break a Guinness record. You always
need help. Right.
>> They have a star-studded lineup of
treasure hunters and authors and hiders
and Netflix people.
Can you tell people who's going to be
there speaking as I flash some of them
up on the screen?
Right. Well, from your world we have
Nicolina I always say her last name
wrong. Bohr? Is that how I say that? I
believe it's pronounced Bohr. Bohr.
Yeah, so Nicolina Bohr who is both a
metal detectorist and you know, what I
like to refer to as like a a super
environmentalist at the same time. She's
always trying to teach us how to get out
there and do this in a way that's
responsible to the earth while still
having fun and finding things, right? We
have a panel of creators for like hunts
that are maybe a few hundred thousand
dollars or less and they're going to
talk about the hunts that are out there
that are that are a little bit
different. The whole the cast of Golden
Greed with the exception of the Hurst
who can't be there and Jared who's the
director is going to be there. It's a
version of having the Golden Greed in
one place that we've never seen in any
capacity before cuz you've never been
able to say, "Hey Jared, why did you
pick this scene versus this scene?" Or
"What made you spin it like this?" It's
going to be very exciting stuff. We're
also going to sit down and discuss with
people who are chara- not characters,
but people who are in the Beyond the
Map's Edge books including Matt DeMoss
who did the editing and talk about the
book itself, how it how it kind of
played out for them, what how they felt
about their stories, how they were
portrayed. Um and then we have two
massive and I mean massive Q&A's. One
for The Hunt for a Treasure Quest which
is the cryptocurrency hunt done by Chad
Bird. He's going to do a Q&A. Then
Justin's going to do a Q&A.
Um and then following that we're going
to turn around and we're going to have a
treasure hunt.
Yeah, let's talk about this treasure
hunt cuz I'm looking on the website that
there's going to be an actual treasure
hunt that at the event itself where
someone could win $10,000.
Um I know you probably can't give too
much information cuz that's what makes
it a treasure hunt. How is that
structure going to work? Are they going
to physically look? Is it going to be
like look under your chair like Oprah?
If there's an envelope you win. Like You
get a car. You get a car. No.
Nobody gets a car. Uh this is this is uh
this is Greece versus America. Uh so
Greece holds the title for the world
record right now and we're we're looking
to take the title here in America and we
need
1,385
I think people in order to break that
record. So we're we're trending toward
it at this point and the more people
show up the better chance we have of
breaking that record. And if you think
about it, it's pretty good odds all
things considered.
Uh
So yeah, I mean it will actually all
take place within the expo center. The
Arizona attorney general actually puts
some a fair amount of restrictions in
Arizona statutes in terms of how we run
this. So we're operating within those
constraints, but it is a skill-based
treasure hunt. Yes. Okay, skill-based
treasure hunt.
Yeah.
And as you go through the milestones as
more people attend and if you go to the
website secret summit.org again link in
the description,
the more people that attend new
milestones will unlock Right.
>> including some of the bigger ones where
Justin's going to be eliminating certain
states from his hunt like really
narrowing it down. Is that accurate?
Yes, he's going to minimally he will
eliminate one state. When we hit 11:11
he's going to eliminate a scene from
Golden Greed where people are putting
too much energy on clues that may not
necessarily be clues. And when we hit
2,000 which he and I are debating what
we're going to do if if if it's going to
hit or not. I always believe I'm going
to hit my numbers. When we hit 2,000
he'll eliminate a second state. Oh my
goodness. Now that talk about a good
clue there and it better not be I'm
eliminating Alaska. You better be a good
one. Better be a good one.
>> I would take Alaska [laughter] over a
little tiny piece of Texas. All right.
Yeah, Texas would be a big one. And
listen, if you're if you want to go I
mean look here's the ticket prices.
They're like 10 to 15 bucks for under
21, 25 bucks for they're very reasonable
for a full day. Can you go over the the
the event activities from time because
it looks like it's action-packed?
Sure. Sure. And so really it's two-day
event. When you come in on on Friday
night the event itself is a reception
that that you know, is a birthday party
if you will for both Golden Greed and
Beyond the Map's Edge because it's the
one-year anniversary. I like to think of
it as a birthday mainly cuz you get
cake. Um you know, so that night will be
a mixer. We have a really awesome Billy
Shaw Jr. band's going to be there
playing and it's just an opportunity for
like-minded people to get together and
talk solves and hang out and be buds and
make friends with those people who you
didn't you know, when you meet someone
in like gold coin 42 you don't really
know who they are until they show up and
you're like, "Hi Mark, how are you?" You
know.
>> about
You know, so your world's kind of like
ours, but and we've all had that moment
when we're at Thanksgiving we're like,
"Oh." They're like, "What do you mean
you're treasure hunting?" And they give
you that look and what you find is in
events like this and when we do like
meetups is it's an opportunity to be
around people who make you feel like
your passion and your love is less
crazy. And it's just a great opportunity
to kind of be around everybody for that
night. Yes, and tickets are available.
Make sure you go to secret summit.org
and pick some up. We're going to be
giving some away shortly. In fact, I'm
going to actually break away real fast
and we're going to do another giveaway.
I'm going to
scatter them throughout the event. We're
going to give away another metal
detector. We're going to give away the
Finders Pro. This is from Nokta
Detectors.
It's completely submersible. It comes
with an incredible package with a
carrying case with headphones with the
premium hand digger. It's a beginner
machine, but it's very powerful. Anyone
can pick it up and use it. You can bring
it to the beach. You can bring it to the
lake. And you're going to have a whole
lot of fun with it. Again, this prize is
going to be open to anyone. You got to
live in America for any of the physical
prizes.
So if you didn't already enter, it's
scrolling at the bottom
that you can just type in #treasure
and you've got a shot. So we're going to
do another one right now. We're going to
give it away again courtesy of Nokta
Detectors the Finders Pro. Uh Justin, I
know you're in the middle of an airport
and there's a lot of people around. You
don't want to be embarrassed. Can you
give me your breast your best tongue
drum roll?
I can try.
Oh, that's really good. THAT WAS GOOD.
THAT WAS really good. Good luck
everybody.
That was the best one I've heard all
night.
Oh, Thea Dement. I think if I'm if I'm
pronouncing it right. Thea Dement. Thea,
I hope you're here. Make sure you put
your zip code in the chat. Uh
congratulations. As long as I see your
zip code in the next 60 seconds, you won
the prize. And then all winners, if
you're still here, email me
quarterhorder@yahoo.com
after the show and as long as the email
zip code matches the zip code you're
putting in the live chat, we will send
your prizes out tomorrow.
So moderators, let me know please if you
see Thea Dement and we will get her her
detector shipped out.
Um I want to roll back for just a second
because there was one or two questions I
had for Justin that I wasn't sure if you
could answer Emma, so I skipped them.
I might have gotten an answer. Uh you
might have, but but this some of them
were like uh specific. So let me roll
back cuz it got me a little
discombobulated. Could I ask a question?
Sure. Go ahead, Doug. Uh for Justin. Uh
Justin, did you have any trepidation in
uh considering to do this um facsimile
of Forrest Fenn's treasure hunt
considering there were people that
passed away in seeking this treasure?
I I I mean certainly there were some
trepidation and I I think you know,
overall I view Forrest Fenn's treasure
hunt as a as a good case study and I
think that with some iterative
improvements it can it can actually
operate pretty smoothly and I I don't I
don't blame Forrest for what happened. I
mean there was really no precedent for
that and so he he did the best he could
with the I think the resources he had
available and so we all have the benefit
of hindsight now and so as part of this
treasure hunt,
you know, we've really I've really
tripled down on in terms of the rules
and the safety aspects to make sure that
there's some guardrails on this and not
so much that it's you know, it ceases to
be an adventure. I think there's a
balance to be had there, but
I like to think that it's it's working
out pretty well most things considered.
Oh, very nice. And I think Nicoline is
in the chat. I'm not sure. Mark from
Nokta Mark's mentioned your name. I
can't see her. I'm not sure.
Um I'm going to follow up with a quick
question for you too uh Justin
is um you know, during the Netflix show,
you know, like you said that the
director shows what you know, what they
want to show and it was a terrific
series. I'd read the most rewatched
Netflix series ever probably because at
the end you announced that your segments
throughout the series you were giving
clues for the treasure hunt which when
you're watching it the first time you're
not expecting that and then everyone
goes back and rewatches and rewatches.
But was there anything when they filmed
and framed the show when you first saw
it that they got wrong or things that
they got right? Things that they edited
out that you thought, "Oh, it didn't
quite happen that way." Were you
surprised with the finished show of how
you remembered it actually happening?
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of variables
in in a production like this. I mean
which scenes are going to be included in
which order? What's the framing going to
look like? What's going to be in focus?
What are they going to cut? I mean
there's there are a lot of things that
could go wrong. And so, you know, I
hedged my bets and that's really the
main reason why I decided to do
something like a book is
worst case scenario none of this works
out in the series then, you know,
there's a fallback in in terms of the of
the book and that can stand the test of
time. I mean the good news is that it
actually worked out remarkably well and
it was just one of those gambles where a
calculated gamble if you will because
um you know, I couldn't I couldn't give
them any inside or track in terms of
which what is what all is important to
include and and timing and so on. And so
uh I probably went a little over the top
and including probably too many things
uh because there were many hours of
footage that they shot. I mean starting
in 2021. So it was
it was uh multiple years of filming and
probably thousands of hours. And so,
yeah, I mean some things did end up on
the chopping block, but um
the important things that I was really
hoping would be included did get
included. And uh it just it just seemed
to work out. So uh I I think we got a
little bit lucky on that one.
What when they first reached out to you,
the people from Netflix, and gave you
the idea they were doing a show, had the
Fenn treasure been found already at that
point or did they pick up on the story
before it was even found?
I
you know, when they first started
filming, I mean it wasn't even sold to
Netflix. You know, I I didn't even I I
had no idea it was going to be this big.
Um
the treasure had been found, but the
location of where the treasure was
hidden had not. And so it was kind of
this
this uh little moratorium in between
that was a very interesting time and
that was probably in 20
uh
2021, I want to say. I'm pretty bad with
dates, but I think that's right.
Okay, got you.
Uh and I'm just going through and again,
if anyone has any questions for Justin,
please put them in the chat uh or for
Emma, please put them in the chat. If
you have a question for Doug, I'm going
to have to get to it another day.
>> [laughter]
>> Um with without giving anything away,
Justin, I'm sorry. I thought you were
saying something, Doug.
Um have you found that you're seeing
people in the community make the same
mistakes over and over again uh where
you're like, oh, another person doing
this. I want to say something, but I
don't want to interfere
or do you think people are kind of
getting the hang of it up front? What's
your vibe on how people are taking this?
I know in the treasure community there's
a lot of experience and they might know
what to do, but the average Joe who goes
to his local bookstore and has never
done this before
I I they're bound to probably, you know,
look into the wrong thing and go down
like Emma said, a rabbit hole that could
be years and nothing come out of it.
Yeah, I mean I
I guess I don't see it in terms of
mistakes necessarily. It's more just uh
it's a journey and I think in any
well-structured treasure hunt
uh
you know,
the occasional rabbit hole is is
entertaining to a certain degree. Um and
so I kind I kind of see uh
the arc of a story here and
and we're in the middle of that story
and it and it will have an ending uh but
there are a lot of kind of twists and
turns along the way and I think that's
uh that's part of the fun. Uh so no, I
wouldn't I mean there's definitely some
themes that that uh people have latched
on to that uh some of which are
important, some not so much.
And
those are the types of things I'm
weighing as we go into the Secret Summit
in terms of what
what makes sense to clarify and what
doesn't. I mean
what I don't want is people diving too
far down into these esoteric things that
ultimately do not matter, you know,
especially something that would
categorize years of um effort or
something like that.
>> Sure. But uh you know, it's it's a
balance in the end. Yeah.
I'm going to go back to the Secret
Summit. I'm I'm jumping around a little
bit because
uh you know, as good as Emma did, there
were some questions that I wasn't sure
if she'd be able to handle.
>> I tried my best.
>> She did. She did a terrific job, way
better than anyone else would have.
Um but you had said the director of the
special is going to be at the Secret
Summit. He's going to be giving a talk.
Um what kind of uh questions are are
people going to have for him as far as
the editing process, things that maybe
were cut out and because you gave clues
to your treasure during the show you
know, were some of those segments cut
out because maybe that guy's like, look,
I'm making a show, buddy. I'm not here
to sell your book and he left out things
that you deemed were really important
Easter eggs.
Uh it sounds like he needs his own Q&A,
huh?
>> [laughter]
>> Well, I would think so.
Yeah, uh I mean you know, certainly be
the opportunity to ask questions of him
at the at the summit. Um and I think
he's been he's had a really good
attitude about all of this. Uh
you know, I I think in one interview he
mentioned early on like, you know, at
some point he might search for for my
treasure. And that actually makes me
feel good in the sense that, you know, I
can I can come to the table and say no
one has a significant leg up over
anybody else.
And you know, I look at the scenes that
were ultimately cut and the importance
thereof and they're super low. So it
just it doesn't bother me that there are
you know, maybe a tight-knit people at
Netflix that might have access to those
deleted scenes. That that's not
concerning to me. Uh because the the
major ones that were really important to
me all got included. So um
yeah, I I
I think it all worked out, but I I I
hope I hope everybody enjoys meeting
Jared. He's a very affable person. I
think you'll you'll like meeting him.
Well, that's good. I'm I'm excited for
it. And I'm going to I'm going to break
again and Doug, we're going to do a
giveaway and we're going to give away
some of the Secret Summit tickets, which
I'm really excited about. We were going
to give away
um
two sets of two. Where's my photo? Let
me bring it up. Hold on.
We were going to give away two sets of
two tickets, four in total but Emma was
so nice to double it. So we're going to
give away we're [clears throat] going to
go back-to-back drawings. We're going to
give two tickets away with one drawing
and then another two and then we'll save
two more for the end of the show.
So we're going to do another drawing
>> but my flight is boarding now and I've
waited as long as I can. So I I got to
jump, guys. But I really appreciate your
time and
I I'm so sorry for for jumping off.
>> All right, take care. Thank you for
coming on. All right, bye-bye.
Thank you.
All right, Doug, let me bring up here
the um
whoa.
I'm going to bring up the uh giveaway
screen. Now this one you can be
international. I don't care where in the
world you live. You got to get out to
the Secret Summit. But this is going to
be a giveaway for two tickets. So you
win and a plus one.
Uh if I won, Doug, I would bring you,
but I'm not going to I can't win. I
wouldn't be allowed to.
So uh good luck everybody. Two tickets
to the Secret Summit, March 27th and
28th. You're going to meet Emma, you're
going to meet Justin, you're going to
meet Nicoline, you're going to meet
Mark, you're going to meet Ryan,
everyone from the treasure hunting
world. It's going to be one heck of an
incredible way I can't wait to see all
the YouTube videos that come out of it
after it's over. But let's uh let me
bring up the drawing screen. I had the
wrong screen up.
All right, here we go. And so far I've
heard from my moderators all three
people were here. All three winners are
getting it. So thank you everybody for
hanging in there.
All right, Doug, we're back to you
again. Let's give a drawing. Give me the
drum roll. This is going to be for two
tickets to the Secret Summit courtesy of
Emma, Jam, and Justin. All right, get it
going.
Teamwork, Doug. I'm going to do
back-to-back drawings. Here we go.
Back-to-back.
Cage Trail. I I I bet you know him. He's
I'm I'm going to Well, listen. I don't
know if he would want to give them to
anybody or not. I'll
>> That's okay. If he does, he does. If
not, I will refund the cost of the
ticket that he already paid for. All
right, there you go, Cage Trail. You
still
>> going to be picking up a treasure
digital wallet from me when he gets
there that he won on our show a couple
weeks ago. Oh man, that guy wins
everything.
>> He's a winner. He's a winner. We got to
bring him with us, Doug. We need to
bring him with
Oh wait, I just see hold on. I just saw
a thing from him. Uh it's going quickly.
Hey, I appreciate it. Please give him to
someone else. All right, I'm going to
redraw. I'm going to redraw. He's so
lucky.
Do the drum roll again? Yes, you do.
Yes, you do. And thank you, Cage.
>> do a great drum roll. Go ahead, Doug. I
got a great tongue.
It's a PG show, Doug. It's a PG show.
Yeah, it's okay.
>> [laughter]
>> All right, here we go. Thank you, Cage,
for your generosity.
All right, the winner two tickets for
the Secret Summit, Bill Murks. Do you
know Bill?
>> know Bill. All right, Bill Murks,
congratulations, Bill.
Uh please put your zip code in the chat
and you just won yourself two tickets to
the Secret Summit. We're going to do
another draw for two more tickets right
now.
So keep your eyes out for Bill and the
second person, good luck.
Oh, look at that, Doug.
All right, let's see here.
Cajun Way Metal Detecting. All right,
looks like someone from our universe.
That's my people.
>> Our people now. That's right. We are
combining forces. Cajun Way Metal
Detecting, congratulations. Please put
your zip code in the chat and then both
winners uh email me after the show,
please. quarterhoarder@yahoo.com
and that way we can just make sure you
are who you say you are.
So let me bring up my other ones here. I
got a And listen, I want to open it up
uh Doug um into the chat. Listen, any
questions, put them in. I don't want to
keep Emma all night. I have a few more
myself, but I want everyone's questions
to get answered. I'm going to try to pay
attention. Doug, keep your eye in the
chat Yep. because there were some
questions earlier and I missed them. So
I'm going to try
to uh to keep an eye on it.
>> I did want to I did want to uh say that
if anyone has not seen the Netflix gold
and and greed um um
was it uh three three uh segments three
1-hour segments
that they should watch it for a number
of reasons but one of our own does a
cameo in that and that's Ken King.
Yes, uh when the treasure was found a
friend of ours Ken who does a live show
on the in the metal detecting space
um you know during his live show he did
like some crazy reaction of wow it was
found and Netflix used that you know
2-second soundbite of Ken uh so shoutout
to Ken for making the show.
Uh actually made the uh Netflix show.
Um people are asking is the uh Secret
Summit going to be a yearly thing Emma
or is this a one-and-done sort of an
event?
Well I guess we're going to have to see
how it goes. I know people have really
it's really a collaboration right? And
so it's about like what works for people
what people need the need of the the
hunters and I think that we need this. I
think that again that like-mindedness
that can become kind of a wind tunnel if
your if your circle's too small you get
out here and you see these things plus
there's such an opportunity you know to
to get out and hear the different way
people are looking at things and
different kinds of hunts that are going
on. It's a great opportunity to kind of
be all-inclusive.
Yes, I agree. I mean like I said we just
got back Doug and I from a
detecting hunt convention sort of a
thing
to be able to hang around with
like-minded people make friends you know
you could argue that that's the real
treasure honestly. I mean that's the
best part of it all. Um money comes and
money goes but the friendships you make
that is what your legacy truly that's
your legacy that's what life's all
about. So I behoove you if you're on the
fence and you've never done anything
like that even if you enjoy the process
of the treasure hunt but you don't
actively seek it out I still think
you're going to have a great time and go
and hobnob with other people that share
the same passions you do. Well and his
book is amazing. Like his book as a
standalone has incredible stories in it.
They're incredible stories. It's a great
read. Yes, well good good for that. Now
besides even all the speakers can you
tell what else is going to be at the
event because I thought I read you're
having a hot dog eating contest?
>> [laughter]
>> Well
>> Don't invite Joey Chestnut. He's a dead
ringer.
So we are having a hot dog eating
contest because you know why be normal?
Let's be crazy.
So uh
one of our collaborators his name is
Froggy he does Siss Quest. He has his
own YouTube channel.
Um he and my brother Jim well they smack
talk each other in a fun kind of
brotherly way and Froggy had said that
he could eat I don't even remember the
number it was something like 10 dozen
donuts or something crazy like that and
that is the beginning of how uh it rolls
downhill and the next thing you know
you've got a hot dog eating contest. So
we're having a hot dog eating contest
between Jim my brother Froggy and Chad
Bird who again has his own treasure hunt
creator himself and the three of them
it'll be a a test to see how many hot
dogs can be eaten in 5 minutes and I'm
almost betting it's going to be like at
the max of three per person after
watching how hard it is. Now you
mentioned Chad Bird I'm not as familiar
with his hunt. I'm going to bring it up
I saw he was another treasure hunt like
John Towns Breaux. Can you explain what
his
how does it how does it work? So Chad
Bird um
he you know if you've ever seen the
movie Ready Player One Chad Bird has a
crypto quest and turned it into like his
own virtual game. It is
it's it's literally all first of all
it's 100% free. So a lot of these other
things like you got to pay for a book I
mean it's not like you're you're worried
about investing but this is 100% free.
Chad was also a Forest Fenn hunter and
Forest really inspired people to go out
and be like give back and create
something beautiful and Chad said hold
my beer I'm going to do something big
and so he had been he's a he had been
collecting cryptocurrency. He has hidden
15,000 different cryptocurrencies
in a geode and it's I don't know if he's
eliminated any states but originally I
want to say it was like Arkansas Texas
Oklahoma and New Mexico I feel like I'm
missing a state. And so Chad's they've
kind of shrunk it down and there's
there's some parameters for where it is
on the longitude or is it latitude
whichever one of the L words that I can
never remember and it's hidden out there
in one of these areas that I keep
calling Texas just cuz that's where I
think it is and not that I'm being
biased of course but and so it's just
sitting out there and so he too has this
multi-million dollar hunt so he's going
to do a Q&A and my brother Jim is going
to interview him and he's in addition to
that you know because you talked about
the milestones the milestones are huge
and there's so many crazy cool
milestones Chad personally donated and
curated what curated what we're calling
the Ring of Power and it's like the
Super Bowl ring of all Super Bowl rings
for treasure hunting.
All the diamonds are still with
diamonds. I wish I had a picture of it.
When we hit 1384 that's one of the
giveaways. Another thing too is that
1750 was originally what it's going to
be he would eliminate a county from each
of his states where his treasure could
be found but last night on our show he
changed that to fit at 1500
he will eliminate a county. So it's this
massive hunt happening out there. He's
got a discord called the big brains that
you know that all get together and they
talk about it. He's always on YouTube
doing taking questions and answering
questions and you know he's just like
the most generous kind guy who's like
hey let's get out there and find some
treasure together. Oh also I hid one too
why don't you go look for that. And then
his online presence he's made all these
games within games. He's had so many
side quests including things like a
Christmas tree like it let's give out
give away $500 for a Christmas tree. He
made another side quest for seeking
treasure hunt I mean there's tons of
there's one right now too you can put a
submit a movie. There's there's so many
there's one about a Sasquatch I don't
really understand it so can't speak to
it but there's so many side quests
within his side quest at
treasureor.quest.
Oh wow that sounds really cool. I wish I
don't say I wish Doug and I are going to
an event that happens to be the same
weekend and I love the event in the
metal detecting world but um man it
would have been a tough decision if we
weren't because this sounds like a lot
of fun and I really would love to have
been out there for it. I'm looking
through the chat to get some questions
in.
Uh I have one here from uh Dr. C
Treasure Hunter.
Uh has anyone spoken about the format of
the Secret Summit treasure hunt? Is it
an onsite hunt or do we need to plan to
drive somewhere else etc.? Okay so no
it's all onsite you don't have to drive
drive anywhere. Hey Dr. C it's good to
see you. Um okay so you don't have to
drive anywhere it's all right there on
the location.
We recommend that you bring a cell
phone. Remember it is a skill-based
treasure hunt and you must be 21 years
old to participate. Um so if you're
under 21 you don't get to participate at
all. State of Arizona says no. Um the
one thing Justin recommends is that you
bring a piece of paper and a pen you
know and so that you can do that and
that's really all the guidance he's
given us.
I'm sorry I'm just bringing up other
things as you're going over it all.
>> okay. No no no that's the big brains for
for Chad Bird's treasureor.quest that's
fantastic discord that you should
definitely be jumping out onto it. Yeah
I'm bringing it up and now I noticed in
your milestones
there was one here I'll bring it up full
screen that it looks like when you hit
1111
there's going to be
Now I got to ask like 1111 that's a
weird number like am I looking into it
too much is that a clue like [laughter]
>> It's the very first thing everybody said
but
>> Yeah it's a weird number. Yeah it's a
very well it's considered there's like
there's angel references there's
divinity references there's
there's so many references that make
1111 significant but the very next night
Justin went on a YouTube channel
interview called X Marks the Pod and he
basically said it was just the number
that came to us. I don't know about that
Doug that's I think he's I think he's
throwing you off the
uh off
>> would have a field day with that.
>> [clears throat]
>> His book is filled with so many numbers
a numerologist would be like I know
exactly where it is and they get there
and they be without. Yeah.
>> Yeah there there's your brother Jim
again giving more information on on the
other hunt
Chad Bird's hunt. Um and that
information for Chad is also on the
treasureor.quest website. Okay there's a
link to that below in the description
check it out it sounds like a lot of
fun. It's a lot of fun. So many cool
it's like little video games it kind of
just reminds me of like the 80s you know
and it's like it's progressive and it's
all building on top it's just a lot of
fun. That's the thing it's like these
are people who just want to have a good
time and hang out and do things and like
be buddies and that's who these people
are and they're like oh yeah by the way
there's also a few million dollars out
there.
We're going to do we're going to do real
quick we're going to do another giveaway
Has anyone responded to the first? I
have not from the moderators the last
two winners of the tickets have not
responded. I'll give them a little bit
more or we're still going to give two
more sets courtesy of Emma. We're going
to save the book and the big detector
towards a a little bit later on the end
but we're getting close to it. But I'm
going to do two more back-to-back four
tickets and again each ticket is for two
people so you plus one and if you win
just let me know you're here put your
zip code in. Are they transferable Emma?
If someone wins and they say oh my god I
live in Hawaii I can't get there but can
I give it to my cousin Stacy?
>> Yes. I mean I have I have control of
that so if you'd like to give it to
somebody else you have a specific person
with an email address I can go ahead and
send it there.
>> we go. So if you win and you know you
can't make it for whatever reason hey
listen you can re-gift it you'll be
someone's hero and if they win the 10
grand maybe you get 5% what do you think
Doug? Maybe you get a little bit. So
we're going to do two more back-to-back
each each draw here will be for two
tickets to the Secret Summit. Again it's
in like what like 2 weeks Emma right?
Week and a half?
>> Actually next week.
>> Next weekend so listen
listen throw your feet to the fire. Get
out and do something.
>> Miss Hotels for All.
>> Yeah, listen, live life a little bit. Go
give yourself an adventure. You're going
to meet a lot of people. You might win
some money. Go have fun. Let's do
another one. Emma, it's your turn for
the drum roll. Okay, I'll do my best.
All right.
That's awesome. Wow, you're gifted
You're gifted
You're a gifted very gifted drum roller.
Congratulations. Here we go. We're going
to go back-to-back.
We've got Fluffnugget. I don't know
Fluffnugget.
>> know Fluffnugget. I mean, all of these
seem familiar to me, but that's just cuz
I think I know everybody. I like the
avatar. That's from that
>> it looks like a beaker. No, it's from
that movie with The Rock when he was
like the
the the I forget what it's called.
Whatever.
>> Oh,
with the in the Hawaii where
>> Right, the Hawaii Rock thing. That's the
chicken they kept throwing over.
>> You're Welcome song that gets stuck in
Yes, I like that song. I like it. I
don't know. I don't know the song. That
song gets You know what's stuck in my
head right now this week? Is that double
Dutch bus song. Have you heard that,
Emma?
>> YES, I'M FAMILIAR
I I DO that I do it on the way to the
morning on the way to get my coffee.
>> [laughter]
>> That's all Yeah, that's what you need in
the morning with your coffee to wake you
up.
>> I'm a grown man. I'm going to hurt
myself.
>> Moana, Moana.
>> Thank you, Moana. Yes, thank you. Thank
you very much. And if
>> If anybody out there does the double
Dutch
dance in their own living room, please
admit it. Doug, one more drum roll.
We're going to do back-to-back. Oh,
okay. Fluffnugget is here.
Congratulations, Fluffnugget.
Fluffnugget. Go ahead, Doug.
Let's do another one. Two tickets. Good
luck.
>> good, Doug. Oh,
he's been practicing in front of a
mirror.
Two more tickets to the big event.
>> Big Wave Dave DCL. Look at that mercury
dime right in the center. I think
>> That's a dime. That's got to be a dime.
1916 dime. That's treasure, Emma. In our
world, that's treasure. That's what I
think. I'm going to have to get my I'm
going to have to get my metal detector
and get out there and go finding stuff.
Where I live is super, you know, Civil
War rich. And then maybe even
American the Revolution. I don't know. I
should There's some Revolution, yeah.
Yes, there is. Yep. The whole East Coast
is an amazing for our hobby. But listen,
wherever you live, you know, there's
going to If you live on the West Coast,
you probably got a better shot of gold
nuggets than we do out here. Everywhere
has their own niche. Well, actually,
North Carolina is actually the first
gold rush.
Oh, I think I did hear that.
I think I did hear that. I think I think
annually it's the number eight gold
producing state in the country.
Doug, you know some stuff, friend. Yes,
yeah. Now, a lot of the things he says
are completely inaccurate.
>> Yeah,
you got to fact-check real life.
>> IT ON JAMS. YEAH, we just I just do a
lot of this. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, I do
that, too.
Oh.
>> I think I think I heard that North
Carolina is known for its emeralds,
though, Doug. Is that right? Um that I
don't know. I I could be wrong.
>> you can go hunt for them, but I've never
been there. Okay. Talking about
emeralds, in the you know, back if we
jump back to Justin's book and his
treasure, I heard in the treasure he had
said there's a lot of gems and I'm going
to bring it up right now on my other
screen. Uh do you know any more about
the treasure that's in that besides what
we already said of what else is in
there? Are you that familiar with it at
all? So, I would say this. I know no
more than everybody else. Well, I'm just
from his website. Right, no. But when
you go, there's there's gems There's a
lot of things he This curated. So, like
he took time to pick the exact things He
wasn't just like, "Oh, look, I've got
this stack of coins over here. Let's
throw that in there, too." Although I
bet he did kind of do that. There's a
scene when he opens his
safe on Golden Greed and you just see
stacks of coins and gold bars and all
that. And I suspect that [clears throat]
there's a lot of all of it. There are
gems. There's Again, there's the the
dragon bracelet. The biggest joke right
now is that somebody's going to show up
to our event with the dragon bracelet
on.
I got one.
Big Wave Dave was not able to make it.
We're going to give it away. We'll do it
again in the second when we do the last
one. And to read off of Justin's website
here,
uh he says that inside the treasure
chest are those Pamp Suisse kilogram
bars that were $160,000 each. He's got
gold Britannias. He's got Australian
gold ducats, Canadian gold maple leafs,
American gold eagles, loose emeralds,
rubies, amethysts,
historical artifacts like silver half
staters, ancient Lidias. I don't even
know what that is.
Uh the oak tree shilling. Uh he's got
the Bitcoin that Emma said. I mean, it
is action-packed. I mean, it's it's an
amazing thing. When you find that, can
you imagine Look on that person's face,
Doug. Oh. I hope he has a trail cam just
to get the WHAT YOU KNOW.
60 LB. DOUG, YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE 19
trips. Yeah.
Doug hasn't lifted 60 lb in 47 years.
Um but that would that would be Now,
Emma, you said you have boots on the
ground and you've been looking for it.
Yeah. Now, I don't want you to tell
anyone your potential solve. Well,
there's shorts everywhere from all the
places I go, so. Oh, okay. Well, then
well, then have Do you think that you
might be on to something or you're not
quite sure? Are you feeling it out or
you think like, "Oh, man, this next
trip, I think we might be on to
something." I'm going back to a location
this when there's no snow on the ground.
Oh, okay. Is there still snow Oh, so
it's You think it's
>> Montana, which is where And I Everybody
knows they tease me cuz I'm in Montana.
There's snow in Montana my location, so.
Oh, so you think it's in Montana. So,
you're giving away you're giving away
your clue. Okay.
>> you watch our show, if you've seen my
shorts, people know that there's a It's
actually there's a large number of
people who think it's Montana. There's a
lot I should say this. I would bet it's
equally divided. There's places I don't
think it is, obviously. Then there's
people I places I hope it isn't like
Alaska.
But
I'm just going to ask that question.
Is it all 50 states included or the
contiguous 48? It's actually called the
American West. And so, if you look in
the book, there's actually a map. Hold
on, I'll show it to you. There's
actually a map of what is available. It
might be on the
I don't actually think it's on Treasure
Quest. You'd think I'd know that by
heart, but I don't. And I'm almost have
the book in my lap. Oh, I wrote all over
this book. We won't be giving this one
away.
It's Oh, there it goes. Okay, so here it
is. It's basically
like can't This is a bad picture. I
apologize. But you see how it's
basically from that line over to the
west. Oh. It's not the Mississippi, but
pretty much it lines up with the edge of
like Wyoming and Montana.
>> Montana, Idaho.
>> And then yeah, it's got Colorado in it.
Colorado, Utah. A little chunk of Texas
like just a sliver. It's like, "Oh, and
this little tiny piece of Texas."
Um and then it just kind of goes
over.
>> those states
back in 2019.
Yes, the map is on the website. Again,
there's a link in the description.
>> Yeah, I can't I can't bring it up. So,
so
So, by seeing that picture the map and
forgive me because I'm not an active
seeker,
uh are Is everyone agreeing that it must
be then uh from the the the west side of
America that's not on the East Coast? Is
that Is that the Justin
>> He has clarified that it is on the map.
Oh, so And that map only shows, you
know, the the left half of the country.
So, right off the bat, you've eliminated
the entire east of the Mississippi.
>> Thank goodness. Thank goodness.
>> I mean, that I mean, listen listen,
you're looking for
>> sucks if you live on the East Coast. No,
it doesn't. You maybe you can
Yeah, you get to see some of the
country.
Right.
>> I've been there twice. Why are you being
a glass-half-empty
curmudgeon, Doug? Why are you being a
curmudgeon? [laughter] I I I do
>> You're retired, Doug. You can get in
your car and go Yeah, Doug. I did
several times. I do want to ask Do you
know enough
I wanted to ask Justin, but do you know
enough
Is this just a young person's
game or
>> No.
could an old fart like me manage his way
through the There are old men farting
out on all these trails all across
[laughter] America.
NO, IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT AN OLD man's
game. You watch Golden Greed. DO YOU
KNOW WHO I SEARCHED in Montana with?
Cynthia. Cynthia is 70. I don't think
when you get I never
>> the show. Yep, Cynthia. Cynthia meets
She's she's she's a hottie. She's a
firecracker, too. She's a firecracker.
She's beautiful. She's beautiful and
she's funny and she's charming and she
is hilarious. And she got me to
accidentally swear on video while we
Cynthia meets you.
She's a lot of fun and she's she's in it
and she's great. And you know, but she's
70 and she's out there. I would say
there is as many people 50 plus as there
are 50 and under.
Yeah, Cynthia was what a firecracker she
was on the show. Really enjoyed all all
her statements.
Um Oh, let me see. Let me see. Well,
uh I'm
One of my moderators was asking me a
good question if I should change the
hashtag.
Um it would be too difficult, Bree,
because I can't do two at the same time,
but it was a good idea. I think she's
They're not seeing some of the some of
the ticket winners replying. So, we'll
try it again. If If there's Bree, how
many sets do I have left? Uh they didn't
really mind. I'd like to get people out
there. So, if someone couldn't make it,
if they're not collecting, I'd like to
give an opportunity to get them in
hands. Listen, they're going for
Guinness Book of World Records. I need
people in the door. So, come on, guys.
Right. And your milestone marker is a
little bit behind. We hit 800 about an
hour and a half ago. Yeah, my milestone
marker is a little behind. It's okay.
That's okay. And listen, you get to
1111, they're going to release new
clues. Someone in the chat earlier said
if I buy like 100 tickets, will will
Justin release a clue? The The
attendance is up on the screen. I mean
Go ahead. Go ahead. I didn't mean to cut
you off, Emma. No, no, no, you're fine.
I would say I would We're The goal is
it's to break the record. That's why
we're pushing for 2,000. So, you know,
the intent was if we if we have 2,000,
we don't have to worry. The The Guinness
Book of World Records actually declines
80% of submissions.
So, we want to make sure that we go
above and beyond that 1384. Uh So, they
can't turn it down. Right. Oh, so all
you only have to get to 1384, which is
an obtainable number. Yeah, 1384 totally
I mean, at that point we're literally in
a stone's throw from 1384.
A stone's throw. Justin and I are on
Tucson Now on Thursday uh next Thursday
we'll be on Tucson Now. I mean, that's a
local show. How do we not drive people
in from that? If you if you knew you had
a chance to use your brain and spend $25
to go potentially
win find $10,000 worth of treasure and
it's the layer five seeker's bounty
treasure, you Who wouldn't Who wouldn't
sign up for that? I mean, $25 for the
possibility of 10,000. Do the math.
Please don't ask me to. It's worth every
penny.
Now, the real question on people's minds
is what do they win if they win the hot
dog eating contest? Oh,
a stomach [laughter]
ache.
I hope they don't win a bowl of barf. I
really
>> [laughter]
>> hope that that's not what happens. Do
you have bags? I bought a trophy. OH,
THERE REALLY IS? There really is?
>> a trophy. It's a hot dog. It's gold and
there's so much crazy stuff like people
are bringing children. So, you saw the
tickets for for $15 for anybody 21 and
under and that's because we have to
account for whoever is there. So, you
have to have a ticket.
Um and so, the 21 and under um is really
anybody who's, you know, not able to do
the hunt. But like for the actual
children, I mean, we've got stuff
they're going to be able to paint
birdhouses and like paint by number like
actual things. Um there's going to just
be tons of arts and crafts for younger
kids to do. We did We did our very best
to have something for everybody and
continue to encourage uh families to get
out and have fun.
Yeah, here was one. I don't even know
what this means. I mean, this guy is
really really smart. Uh
>> [laughter]
>> It says it's a
>> I'm telling you, he's actually the
person who named Seeker's Summit.
>> Oh, I don't even know what that mean I
don't even know what a geofence is, but
it sounds like a like a just a a a a a
[laughter] a a a a a
>> campaign and that's a great idea, Alex.
>> a dog fence. Yeah, yeah, like some of
the comments like we're we're very
lowbrow here, Alan. You got to dumb it
down with your comments for us.
>> [laughter]
>> But he's not wrong and already just so
you know, Alan Chadburn has been doing
that through Facebook. There we go.
There we go. Um can seekers compete?
This is from Cage Trail. Can seekers
compete? I'm not sure what that means.
Emma, do you Does that make sense to
you? So, yeah, I mean, yeah, so all
seekers at Seeker's Summit can compete
except for Jam. Jam's not eligible and
Froggy's not eligible. Anybody who's
part of the, you know, the correlation
that are are combination of people who
put this together, they're not eligible.
But everybody who bought a ticket and
you're there and you're 21 and over and
you bring your ID and you can prove
you're 21 and over, you can compete for
that.
There was a comment here from 3D Bronze.
>> I bet he meant for the hot dog eating
contest. Oh, maybe. Maybe. I'm sorry,
Cage.
>> Unfortunately, we have limited to these
three lunatics who apparently
[clears throat] want to eat a bunch of
hot dogs. Um mainly cuz I don't want the
liability if I'm honest and if one of
them chokes, I'm going to laugh at them
and then get their bags. Hey, listen, I
Yeah, they do that in my area right
right on the New York, New Jersey shore
and the winner every year is a tiny
little Asian guy, Doug.
>> Yeah,
Joey Chestnut and
the the girl she's a
Asian. She wins like 60, 70 hot dogs.
It's unbelievable. Yeah, that's crazy.
There was a question from 3D Bronze uh
quarter horse air metal There's metal
detecting conferences every day. Ditch
that event and come to the Listen,
if it was any other detecting event, I
would. I
>> too important.
>> I love these people in uh that we're
going to down in Missouri. So, this one
I can't. If it was any other one, I
would. Um but I appreciate
>> is a member of our treasure hunting
community and he's actually 3D He's He's
got a website where he has printed John
Collins Black's uh He's got permission
to print the boxes for John Collins
Black. So, that's a Pokémon box from
John's book. And I want to say this one
is a past and future. He sent them to
me. Like he These are the same the
replicas of the boxes. 3D Bronze prints
and sells these on his website. Nice.
He's also doing his own treasure hunt
called Agents versus Aliens, which
should be released this summer.
Wow, that's great. You never know who's
showing up in these rooms. Yeah, we had
John on. John was a John Collins Black.
He was a great guy. Uh the only
interview that uh he he he asked me to
not do live, which I was reluctant at
first, but it really worked out good. I
I had a good time. That was my first dip
into the treasure searching world, you
know, where ours is a lot more You don't
even know there's a treasure out there.
Where it's just uh you need a lot of a
lot of a lot of a lot
>> Well, a lot of what we do is on faith.
You know what I mean? Because like you
know, I mean, I suspect and I don't want
to speak for your community. When you go
out there, you have an idea that there's
a likelihood that you're going to find
something. I mean, you know, there's We
we have that immediate gratification.
Right. But in our world, you put
together the ideas of the possibility
and then you tie it all down and you go
out and you hope to find something and
more often than not you're coming home
empty-handed. Yeah, uh we we have some
of those days, too. Yep.
>> Um and talking to Mark uh from Nokta
Detectors, who's going to be there as a
vendor um with with his own little booth
with or however you're setting it up.
Uh he said there's going to be live
music, too. You're doing some sort of a
mixer on Friday night.
>> Friday night. Yeah, uh Billy Shaw Jr.
band is coming out and he's actually is
much as he's this tremendous uh band and
well-known in the Tucson area, he's also
a hunter and he's known Justin for years
and actually sent Justin a signed CD.
So, when I was looking for somebody, he
said, "Hey, this guy's awesome." and
they just happened to be available. So,
they'll be out there. Friday night is
the mixer night where people are just
getting together. You know, and so Billy
Shaw Jr. His band is I went and listened
to all the music. It's fantastic.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, it's country. I mean, he's
got some other stuff, too. He's got a
lot of great stuff. Yeah, it's
You know, fun with a twang. That's one
of Doug's favorite genres. Here's a
question I and I forgot about this. This
is from Matt. Uh glad to see you're part
of the hunt. I found Brad Martin's Vault
of the Grail. Uh in our community, one
of the metal detecting channels, our
good friend Brad from Green Mountain
Metal Detecting,
uh hid a treasure a few years ago, gave
clues in his videos and I forgot that he
did that. Yeah, this guy found it. It
was very successful. I'm kind of
surprised that our worlds haven't
crossed before. You know what I mean?
Cuz it's very very similar. Well, Matt
Matt Goldfinder is one of the very first
people I met when I went out to Montana
for the first meet and greet that I ever
did. And Matt was there and since then
we became great friends. He's actually
part of our panel on safety. He's going
to spray my husband down with an inert
bear spray.
Oh, oh, that that sounds like an
>> to get him to use regular bear spray,
but he's like, you know, I'm worried
about the other people. So, we're going
to use the inert and uh he and and Matt
is like a he's a he lives in Montana
himself. He's a big big hunter and he he
helps people constantly as they come
out. He meets up with with other
hunters. They get together. They go
search for their hunt together.
There was another super chat here from
Zeus's Father, which is an awesome name,
Doug. I would I wish your name was
Zeus's Father. Uh it says free free
Emma. I don't know what that means. Is
that an inside joke on your channel,
Emma?
>> We always We have a running joke of free
Scott. Scott is my husband and he
actually goes everywhere and one time I
said he wasn't coming to something cuz
his day job is as a teacher. And so,
ever since then people think I hold him
back from going to stuff. I was like,
"Free Scott. Free Scott." Like he's the
[laughter] guy in charge of controlling
everybody.
Uh there's Nokta Mark still in the chat.
He's coming for the band. He's excited
He was excited. Uh I was talking to him
all this morning. They're really excited
to be coming out. You know, to get metal
detecting in front of uh a crowd that
isn't necessarily metal detecting, but
has that treasure hunt energy. I think
it's going to be a really exciting mix
of the worlds and who knows? I think
we're both ends are going to are going
to come out of it uh
>> uh excited. What an opportunity. You
know, what an opportunity.
Is this an in inside or outside venue?
Thankfully, with all this 100° heat, it
is inside. We're at the Tucson Expo
Center. All right, good. Good.
>> Yes, if you go to the Seeker's I was
trying to bring it up on my screen, but
when I when I bring it up, I'll try it
again.
For some reason, I'm getting this weird
Well,
hold on. What are you looking for? Well,
I I had the map here and then I have a a
tab of your Seeker's Summit that does
have If I scroll down the venue here,
Yep. uh it'll show where it's at. It
goes over the entire This is again the
seekerssummit.org
website. Goes over the entire itinerary
for all day Friday,
uh all day Saturday, doors open, live
music. Goes over all the speakers, a
brief thing of what they're going to
talk about. It goes over the hunt. It
goes over the hot dog eating contest. Uh
breaks everything down. On the site, you
can look up at the top, you know, the
schedule of event, all the speakers,
uh each person what they're contributing
as far as information, stories, whatever
they do. Like she said, Justin, Chad,
Jared, the director of the Netflix show,
Nicoline, uh the detectorist who I guess
was here earlier and I apologize if I
missed her. Cynthia from the show. So
many people. We're We're We're the We're
We're We're the family. They weren't
able to make it. I forget their names.
They're not able TO MAKE IT.
BUT YOU SEE, YOU HAVE IT HERE. Lou B and
Sherry, they're in it. Lou B is the He
actually has uh YouTube channel for
snakes like for snakes. Oh, was that the
airplane guy? WAS THAT THE PILOT? YES.
YES. YES. I REMEMBER. YEAH. He will be
on our show. We have a We do a call-in
show every other every once in a while
on Fridays called New Phone, Who Dis?
And we talk treasure. When people call
in, they ask questions. Lou B and Sherry
will be on our show tomorrow night to
answer questions about Forrest Fenn's
hunt, uh There's Treasure Inside, and
Beyond the Map's Edge and Secret Summit.
Well, fantastic. Yeah, it goes over
everything. All your information, the
venue, uh the sponsors again, you know,
we got involved because Nokta Detectors
is a sponsor. Uh I believe uh Ryan,
metaldetectingshop.com, is also going to
be there sponsor. So, some worlds are
colliding. It should be a really good
It's a whole list on here uh of all the
information. And again, I have also the
website up if I come over here. Uh
Justin's website wasn't working earlier.
Yeah. But, the map and then like I said,
here was the map where he's hidden that
treasure somewhere on the left side of
the country. Well, he's also including
Alaska in there. So, Yes. Yes. I don't
see Hawaii, though, but Alaska
>> No Hawaii. I wish. I would I would
really bad like
Hawaii. I have a feeling Emma will be
telling her husband every weekend, "I
really think it's in Hawaii. We got to
go back."
>> Looks like it's Hawaii. I've [laughter]
got plenty of reasons.
He's like, "Honey, we checked this part
of the beach." "I want to check it
again." We didn't have the right kind of
metal detector. [laughter] I just
learned that there's more than one kind.
Uh
yeah, but it goes into Justin's whole
story, which he did touch on in the
Netflix show,
uh the treasure, uh some pieces of the
map, links to his book, uh everything.
Again, if you have good eyes, you can
see the website up here, but it is in
the
uh description of the show. Uh
everything you need. I didn't even
realize they had he had an audiobook.
Who Did he get a good reader for the
audiobook, Emma? He did. I mean, the
guy's got he's good. Um it's funny cuz
he gives us permission to read all the
time. Like I My mom was like, "Hey, can
I permission to read?" Cuz it's it says
you can't use his content without
permissions. I always say, "Hey, I'm
going to read a chapter." I was asked to
read a chapter. Um and so, we'll go on
on our live and I'll read a chapter,
too. But, he did he did better than me.
Okay, good. We have a great time and we
have a lot of people who like will put
up posts where like in Discord they read
the chapters and it's really kind of
cool to hear the different ways of
inflection change the story. Oh,
absolutely. How you read it is such a
big part of it. Oh, and there's Zeus's
father again. Good to see you live.
We'll be at the Secret Summit. So, uh
congratulations. I'm glad you're going.
Hope you have a really good time and I
can't wait to see updates.
>> Thanks, Tyler. Uh from uh Emma. Oh,
there there was another one there. Hold
on a second. I missed one here. I
apologize. Hi, guys. Love the content.
Any chance you'll be in and around
Michigan? Oh, that was a metal detecting
thing. Um we will be in Iowa.
There might be a Michigan one. I will
let you know. Any events we go to, I'll
announce
uh on the Tuesday video.
>> Lost
Yes, at the moment I'm not sure.
Um I'm just looking to see if I missed
any other ones. We're going to do
another giveaway.
Um why don't we do it? We're going to do
a good one, Doug. We're going to give
away
uh I didn't hear from the ticket people.
So, we're going to give away two more
packages because I'm going to dismiss
them. Froggy
uh is sending him on. So, we're going to
do two more back-to-back. And then after
that, we're going to do Justin's signed
book, which Emma graciously threw at us
during the show. Uh so, she's going to
get the book and she's going to have
Justin sign it at the event. You'll get
your own signed copy.
So, we're going to go three in a row.
So, uh good luck. The first two will be
for two tickets again. And if you can't
make it, listen, give them away to a
loved one. You'll be the hero of your
family. I'm telling you that's how life
works. So, uh make sure you pick them
up. We're trying to fill the uh fill the
event up. So, if you can't go, you know
someone that can go. I know you do.
So, uh help share the wealth here.
Um Emma, it's your turn. Drumroll for
two tickets to the Secret Summit.
She's good. Doug, Doug, you're fired.
You're fired, Doug. She's good. Good.
All right, two tickets. Good job, Doug.
You can keep it.
There we go. Johnny Pop Top. Oh, that
sounds like a metal detecting name. Yes,
it is. Johnny Pop Top, if you hear, put
your zip code in the uh in the
description in the chat, please. You
just got to yourself two tickets to the
Secret Summit show
Friday and Saturday. And we're going to
do one more back-to-back.
It's your turn, Doug.
I'm going to have Doug do the book.
Okay, perfect.
>> him do the book.
>> You're practicing, Doug. Why don't we do
a duet? Amy H328. Okay, I could do this
with you, friend. Oh, about you we'll do
one simultaneous. I like that. Amy H328,
congratulations. Put your zip code in
the chat. You've got yourself two
tickets to next weekend's Secret Summit.
If you can't make it, give them to a
loved one. Don't tell me you can't do
it. Come on, I know you can. Well, and I
saw two quick things in the chat. There
is we One of the things we do use metal
detectors for is called the Southern
Trappers. These guns that were hidden
out in kind of on the South Carolina
border. And I can't wait to choose a
Nokta um detector so I can go out there
and find those dang things cuz I have
been all over that island that you you
see in the movie Freedom Glory, the
movie Glory. Oh, yes. Yes. They've got
to be there, but I had to I didn't know
there was more than one kind of metal
detector. There's a way that you metal
detect.
I cannot wait to get a
a Nokta metal detector and get out there
and find those Yes, I heard Justin
actually say that in an interview
somewhere where he said uh he said,
"Yeah, I've I've metal detected since I
was a kid." And then someone said, "Oh,
what's the difference?" And he goes,
"Ah, they're all just the same." And I
was like, "Bite your tongue, young man."
That's like me saying every every book
is the same. Mark and Ryan will give you
a dissertation at the event, Emma. I
cannot wait. I'm so excited. for
different things. If you want to find
gold, it's a different detector than if
you're going under the water. I had no
clue. They'll put the right one in your
hands for you to have some success and
find treasure that was not meant to be
found ever again, which is exciting.
Yeah. Let's also do the book, Doug. Now,
this is a good one from Emma.
This is going to be for John This is
going to be for um
for Justin Posey's book, Beyond the
Map's Edge, that Emma is going to have
him sign. I guess you can inscribe it to
insert whatever your name is.
Uh and then it will mail it out after
the event. So, really cool prize and
then you are thrown into the chat uh
thrown into the hunt when you have the
possible code in front of you. So, I
will do this one, Doug, and give you a
break of your tongue. We'll do it We'll
do it all together. We'll all DO IT
TOGETHER.
GOOD PRIZE. All right, let's go. 3 2 1.
Good luck. Signed copy of Beyond the
Map's Edge by Justin Posey, courtesy of
Emma.
>> were out of key, J. I I was definitely
ran out of energy in the middle. Oh,
look at that name. The Infamous, spelled
with like numbers and letters. That
sounds like a That's That's a good one.
I am not That sounds like a guy who
knows his crypto treasure.
Uh put your name your zip code in the
chat. You've just won yourself the
signed copy of Beyond the Map's Edge,
courtesy of Emma, that you will get
after next weekend's show.
Uh the Infamous one. There it is. I see
it in there. Uh he he's in there.
He did put He didn't He didn't do the
one thing I asked him to do. He didn't
do the one thing I should have done. Put
your zip code in there. Put your Put
your zip code in there.
Uh we're going to go for like maybe 10
more minutes and then we'll do the last
prize, courtesy of
metaldetectingshop.com,
the Triple Score metal detector, two
coils, Bluetooth uh uh headphones.
I mean, what an incredible package
that's going to be. We'll try to eke 10
more minutes out of Emma. She's going
live again tomorrow. She's going to be
hoarse soon.
But, I want to open it up to questions
in the chat before we get out of here.
So, if you have any other questions from
my show, please put them in. If not, you
can go check out Emma's YouTube channel
tomorrow night. Treasure hunt with us
and get your questions in if I don't see
them tonight. Again, Zeus's father. Wow,
this guy is in there.
So, wait. Every attendee No. No. No. No.
No. No. No. No. We did one today. We did
one today, Tyler. But, Justin is selling
books that he'll sign. He's got a small
amount. If you want to get a signed book
while you're there, anything you buy
from Justin's booth goes back to the
crypto uh Bitcoin wallet. So, just
remember that. That's the intent. There
we go, Justin. And Zeus said Zeus's
father Justin, I'm guessing his name.
His name is Justin also? No. No, that's
Tyler. That's Tyler. I think that's
Tyler G. Tyler G, okay. Uh well, Tyler,
it sounds like you're going out there
already. So, yeah, I know you'll be
there. Got to get there early. Got to
get there early. Uh Nokta Mark is still
trying to sell things. I'm looking for
in the chat for questions. Yes, the
Triple Score is coming up, probably 5 or
10 minutes.
Uh someone said, "Where's Indiana
Jones?" He had to catch a flight. We had
him for a good half an hour or so. Uh
you can go back and watch the show
uh for more Justin.
Uh let me see. Oh, the Infamous one. Uh
the Infamous did get his zip code, so
congratulations.
You've got your I will Emma, I will send
you his information later.
All winners, you have to email me your
full name, address, and I think a phone
number. Nokta needs that for DHL. I
won't I will Listen, I'm not going to
call you. Don't worry about it. But, I
need your name and address.
>> Yeah. Uh just email me name, shipping
address. I don't care if you mail it to
your house, your mom's house, your
cousin, the local pizza place.
>> Doug's like, "What are you wearing?"
Yeah. Yeah, I won't give it to Doug.
Doug is creepy.
Uh Adrian Tucker said, "Does the
AccuPoint work with the Deus 2?" The
AccuPoint works with Bluetooth
headphones, not necessarily that. So, if
the Deus 2 uses Bluetooth uh headphones,
it would work, but I can't say for sure.
I don't have a Deus 2.
Uh let me see here. And you only need to
put trea- the hashtag treasure in once.
If you did it earlier, it's not like you
get extra chances. Once you're in one,
the software is smart enough to know.
Yes, good for all. Um Matt F39 uh
the I'll be at the summit.
Well, you'll see that hat. All right, so
I guess it ends with that. I'm just
looking for any questions or looking for
the summit.
Uh boo
>> [laughter]
>> Boom Monster wants to know where in the
world is Carmen Sandiego. Emma, has that
mystery been solved? Has anyone found
her? No. Nobody's She's still missing.
She's the treasure to find, I'm
guessing. The last two people for the
tickets got their uh zip codes in. Thank
you, Johnny Pop Top and Amy H. Thank you
very much. Um I did see Fluff Nugget
wasn't able to go on the last one. We'll
do the last set that Fluff Nugget's
returning back for the last set and the
triple score. Thank you for putting that
in there.
I got that from
Ken, Adventures in Dirt, who is the our
friend that made his cameo in the
Netflix in the Netflix show.
Uh let's see. I'm looking for any other
questions. Get them in, guys. Last
second because Emma's going to be a
horse for tomorrow.
We often go long here on the show, Emma.
I'm not sure if I even gave you a time.
It's only 20 minutes.
Jay, I was thinking you ought to get
involved in this heavily since you're
like an expert at Pokémon Go.
Wait, you're an expert at Pokémon Go?
Well, I'm not I'm not an expert, but
listen. Um He can hold his own. Uh do
you do you play, Emma? I only play
because the John Collins Black it's the
first ever box that I I went after was
Pokémon Go. Really?
I play only cuz I my kids played 10
years ago.
And then my kids lost interest and I
listen, I'm finding a lot of Pokémon. I
can't just abandon that account. So I
Can't you can't. I mean
>> No, listen.
>> You're dedicated. Like you said, you're
addicted.
>> I my personality is so when I if I get
involved in something, forget it. My
whole life
>> We're going to a hunting grounds. He'll
he'll go 20 miles out of his way because
he saw there's a
Pokémon to uh
to capture. All right, listen. I'm
looking for more I just that's so crazy
because in that Pokémon story, there's a
Pokémon that's only been in the US like
once and it's around the time John hit
the treasure, which is the um
I can't believe I can't think of it.
It's like basically looks like a big
elegant cockroach. Can't believe I can't
think of the word. Pheromosa. It the
Pheromosa. And it was there in the
Buffalo National River at one of those
like fighty center places. Oh wow. Yeah,
there's some that never least released
in America unless you do it on like the
special
like a You know that means you
understand how people can create their
own trails and then you have to be close
to the trail to be able to use it. I
have a theory that maybe that's what
John's done. Oh, really? I didn't know
John was that into the poke I mean I
knew he was cuz he
>> there's a whole story about the whole
chapter of the Pokémon. I only had 20
minutes for John, so I could only get in
so many questions on it. I that's how
his he works. It's cool though. He's
he's fantastic. He sent him well, his
siblings came to one of our meet and
greets up in Asheville. They were so
fun. It was just fantastic. They he's
got he's good people. Okay. He seems
like a really nice guy. I mean he was
nice enough to give me his time and we
had a lot of fun with it. I can't
believe how much I call legs that that
interview had. I still get people
emailing me. A woman emailed me like
last week. She's like, can I can I take
a a transcript of your interview
for some Excel super spreadsheet I'm
doing? Uh
>> Oh, wow. Someone else is like, can you
send me the uncut cuz I edited that
interview. Can you send me the uncut
edited? And I was like, well, no. No,
I'm not going
>> [laughter]
>> Well, it's so funny cuz when you're
interviewing him and his assistant's in
the background and she's like, 4
minutes, 5 minutes.
>> Yes. And you're like not prepared for
it. We didn't we made them use
StreamYard. Everybody else used Zoom.
I'm like, we don't know how to do that
cuz we're new we're new to treasure
hunting and definitely new to YouTubing.
And so we we didn't know what to expect.
We felt so bad. We were like machine
gunning, peppering him with questions. I
mean he had to be terrified when he left
the first one. The second interview he
was really very prepared for us. Yeah,
yeah. Once he gets to know you, I see he
kind of gets cuz you know, of the many
things he does, it's got to be
overwhelming.
Oh my goodness. There's Zeus's father
again. Just so Emma knows, I'll be
bringing my black Resistol cowboy hat.
Resistol.
Uh that has a rattlesnake hatband on it
to remind JP of his rattlesnake story so
I can tell JP my story. He's going to
love that. He's going to love
that. All right, Zeus's father, that's
exciting, man. They're definitely going
to recognize you. Um and I would love to
see a picture of that uh that hat.
>> There'll probably be 30 people wearing
the same thing.
Uh Danger Close said Smarties. I don't
know if that's You had said you loved
eating your Smarties. I'm always eating
my Smarties. Yeah, you know what I'm a
big fan of? Jelly beans. I love Jelly
Belly jelly beans. Jelly Bellies.
>> What's your flavor though? That's what's
important.
>> I like I like all
>> a handful all together. I don't like
black jelly beans. No, I throw all of
them in the trash. Throw them all in the
trash. I love the trash. But I can't eat
Jack black black jelly beans when I'm
eating other jelly beans. That's a it's
got to be by itself. Yeah, the black
ones just kind of ruins it for me. Um
and I don't like the buttered popcorn. I
don't know what it is. Yeah, that's cuz
it's too it's sweet, but also like
obnoxiously like uh salty. Yes, yes. Oh,
here's a good question from Wool Acre.
We kind of covered it earlier.
Are these treasure hunts
doable for beginners? I mean, do you
think a beginner has a shot to get his
book, open it up and maybe get lucky
enough to find the treasure?
>> Absolutely. Cuz really the reality is
all of these hunts are about reading the
words, sitting back and asking yourself,
what's a clue and what's not a clue. And
in the beginning it's almost
overwhelming and and you know, but what
I'll tell you is that you're going to
start to see threads like common threads
and themes and you're going to tie it
together and then you'll go down the
numerical rabbit hole. You know, we
talked about numerology. You'll go down
that cuz you're going to want to turn it
into something that it is or it isn't.
Um but it's absolutely
doable for anybody at any stage. You
know, you Doug you asked about age. One
of the things it says is it's within a
mile of where you park. Like so you're
not hiking, you know, 40 miles to go
find this thing. You know, I mean That's
true.
I've done, but yeah, it's doable. It's
all very doable. It's very accessible.
It's you know, it's like in Justin's he
said you don't even need you can go in a
low rider to go retrieve his his
treasure. So you don't need any kind of
special cars or anything like that. It's
completely over or it's completely open
to virtually everybody.
All right, there we go. All right, we're
going to do we're going to do the last
giveaways here. Oh, there was another
one from Zeus's father. My goodness.
Let me [laughter]
You got writer's cramp. Oh, oh, he's
going on about his hat again. He's going
>> [laughter]
>> on about his hat. Zeus's father, email
me a picture of your hat. I want to see
what you look like in this hat. I'll put
you in next week's show. He's got an
interesting black and white feather, a
bear paw. Wow, send me a photo. Pool a
quarter order
at yahoo.com.
>> I want to see it. And I hope you listen,
I hope you find that treasure chest out
at the Secret Summit event.
Um let me see, Doug. We're going to do
the last one right here. We're going to
do the triple score pro pack courtesy of
metal detecting shop.com.
Um a real highlight here. I was really
surprised when they offered it up.
Incredibly gracious of them.
Uh like I said, I did the full tutorial
video
uh on the machine. I really loved it. Uh
multi-frequency machine, single
frequency, completely submersible, has
all sorts of bells and whistles. Uh it's
an advanced machine, but you can also
turn it on and just go. So it's easy to
use, but it has all these features that
as your comfort level grows, you can
really get years and years of work out
of it. So I want to thank Ryan over at
metal detecting shop.com for donating
such a remarkable prize. And we're going
to give it away right now. So let me
bring it up. And we'll do the last two
tickets, too, but since uh the last
winner
said he wasn't able to make it. I forget
his name. Tough tough tough something or
other. I forget.
All right, so last two. The two tickets.
The last two we gave away I heard of, so
I think I only have four tickets
claimed, I believe. This is going to be
for the last two tickets.
I good luck, guys. Claim the tickets. If
you can't get it, put them on your local
Facebook. Someone's going to want to go.
You This is life-changing.
>> Someone's going to want to go. They're
going to want to go. It's a
life-changing event.
>> Who couldn't use $10,000? Who wouldn't
want to go there and get inspired to go
find millions of dollars?
>> Right, or go hobnob with a Netflix
director. I mean, who knows what that
might lead to. Maybe you got some
charisma.
>> will be there? You'll be shocked and
amazed. Nicola will be there. Everybody.
So last two tickets. Come with it, guys.
Here we go. Good luck. Last two tickets
to the show, Secret Summit, next
weekend. Good luck, everybody.
Do do do do. Was that copyrighted that
song? I'm not sure.
>> Yes.
B S A C. What is that, Doug? B S A C.
Oh, B S A C. Come on, Doug. Let's spell
it out. Spell it out, Doug. Come on.
>> [laughter]
>> B S A C. Come on, Doug. Come on. What
does that mean? Let's see if that
person's here. Let's hope that's his
initials. Bob uh Scott Aaron. Bob Scott
Aaron.
Right. Taco Mondo.
>> [laughter]
>> All right, let's
>> Aaron Charles for his first names. That
sounds great.
These are for the last two tickets. If
you're here, put it in there. Uh
I'm not sure if that's a shenanigans uh
>> [laughter]
>> person or not. Doug, I can't believe you
read it. Come on, Doug. That was the
best part. Oh my goodness. Doug's going
to get me kicked off the air.
>> [laughter]
>> They're like, where was the violation?
Right here. Exactly. All right, while
I'm waiting for him to come in or she or
she to come in, let's do the last
giveaway that I just talked about uh
from metal detecting shop.com, the
triple score metal detector, over a $500
machine that I can almost guarantee
you're going to find incredible pieces
of treasure wherever you live in the
world.
>> Jam, if you're still in there, put
#treasure. Jam Jam, get it in there,
man. I'm telling you. You're only
eligible, Jam. Yes, yes. You are
eligible. Everyone's eligible except for
us three and unfortunately the
moderators, but they all have one. You
know, they they I know they have
All right, so Doug, we're going to do
another one. All three of us combined.
This is a big one. Good luck, everybody,
for the big triple score detector
bundle. Let's go. Drum roll, please.
>> [laughter]
>> All right.
My my throat's getting sore now. Good
luck.
>> [sighs]
>> two
Rachel Mascota.
I DON'T RECOGNIZE THE NAME. OH my gosh,
I just saw another super chat go by with
a question. Did you Was it Okay, let me
say Rachel Muscado, you got it.
Um listen, you got uh 60 seconds to get
your name your zip code in the chat. Let
me know you're here. My moderators are
watching for you. If not, we're going to
give it away to someone else. So, please
60 seconds. There was another super chat
while we're waiting from Shawn Lucas. Is
Emma going to give her kids bear spray?
What I I'm sensing there's an inside
joke to this. So, in Dillon, Montana,
while we were
you know, when Jeff and I were new new
to YouTube and new to Beyond the Maps
Edge, everybody was really new to Beyond
the Maps Edge. And when Justin announced
that he was doing this book signing, I
said to Jeff, I said, "Let's do this.
Let's go. And I'm going to interview
every person who stands in line." What I
didn't know is that there was 1,600
people that were coming to get their
books signed.
Oh my goodness. And I brought prizes. We
brought t-shirts from Salt Face Mule,
which is this amazing hunt-friendly uh
brewery up in Asheville area. Um we
brought shovels, which turns out you're
not allowed to dig in a lot of places in
Montana. I hope nobody used them. We
bought bear spray. And Shawn Lucas is
fantastic. He's got these cute two cute
little kids. I don't want to say their
names just in case they don't want to
you know, he doesn't want that known.
But I walked up to him and interviewed
him. I'm like, "How long you been a
hunter?" And then I said, "Can I give
them a present?" And I come running back
and I have bear spray. And I'm like,
"Oh, I'm just going to hand this kid
bear spray." And I think about it for a
second. I'm like,
"Can I give your child bear spray?" It's
just not something you think you're
going to give a kid. But I gave about a
12-year-old bear spray. And so
>> [laughter]
>> We make fun of me. I give bear spray to
kids. Yeah, I mean, as long as the
nozzle's facing away from them, they
should be fine. I think that kid is so
ready to be out in the wilderness. He
doesn't need me. He's got his own little
bear spray.
>> the pin to release it. I've never I've
never used bear spray.
I've never
>> bought it. I've worn it on my hip like I
was cool, but I've never used it.
>> Yeah.
I've never used it either. I What What
are the funny parts of that um
uh Netflix series,
um
Cynthia shot herself in the groin with
with the bear spray. And she said that
hurt. Oh, she tells that story in
person. I've seen her wear those pants.
But she tells that story in person and
she's like, "I had to still hunt." I'm
like, "Your crotch had to be on fire."
And she's like, "Oh,
it was."
I would have loved to have met her.
She's like a firecracker. She would have
been such a fun person.
Yeah, I mean, listen
She's going to be there. Listen, guys,
you can go
uh that there's still tickets available.
Uh I'm Let me Let me see. I have the
live website up open over here.
Let me see how many you're up to uh um
Oh, good question.
>> me see.
Was that 800 when I sat down? So, let's
see where we're at now. We're close to a
couple You have eight days left to go
before you come in.
>> I Come on, guys. There's still 800.
>> We're going to get it. I have a bet with
Justin Posey that I'm going to hit
2,000. I hope you do. I hope you do.
Someone might step in and buy 500
tickets just to unlock the next
milestone.
>> Well, I mean, there's the colleges right
there, too. And it's like they they may
or may not know. And like I'm going to
go there and I'm going to tell I'm going
to get there Tuesday night. And I'm
going to just Start putting flyers out.
>> Be more boots on the ground, but for
like collection instead of trying you
know, different kind of collecting. So,
I'm going to get some people out there.
This military base There's a lot of
people. There's Zeus's father again.
Zeus, I mean, come on. You're going to
go broke. Save some money to buy
Justin's book at the event.
>> [laughter]
>> I I don't know if you got the email.
quarterhoarder@yahoo.com
is my is my email.
Um I don't have it open right now, but
if you send me that picture, I'll put it
up next week. I'd love to see your your
super fancy leather white feathered
cowboy hat with all
all that cool stuff. I don't even know
what that means.
Um I'm not sure. But listen, we're going
to get ready to wrap up soon, Doug. I at
least want to get Emma out of here. I
know she's got to go live again
tomorrow. She went live yesterday.
Uh of course I got to reiterate the
whole point of the show, the Seeker
Summit metal detecting metal detecting
I'm sorry. Treasure Hunt Convention
next weekend.
>> This was in Tues in Tucson, Arizona,
right? Tucson, Arizona. The metal
detecting world will be represented.
That's what I was trying to say.
>> Absolutely. Between Nokta Detectors, our
good friend Mark, who was a huge
supporter of the show, gave all a bunch
of prizes away. He will be there.
>> so generous. Mark is so generous. Super
good guy. Uh Ryan from
metaldetectingshop.com will also be
there. Donated a prize today. Super
generous. Uh both of them can answer any
questions if any of the treasure hunt
community is interested in metal
detecting to add that extra layer.
Because some of these places, hey, while
you're out searching for the treasure,
maybe you swing the detector along the
way and you might not find Justin's, but
maybe you'll find old silver coins and
gold and rings and jewelry.
It's the It's a frontier of detecting
that you can do in your own backyard and
find treasure. So, I recommend that
everybody to give it a shot uh if you've
never done it before. Uh Nicolina will
be there from the metal detecting world.
>> to meet her. Part of Beyond Oak Island.
Uh really nice person, too. Super duper
smart, too. Wait till you see her. She's
like a I forget what Mark said. She's
like a physicist or some crazy thing
like that.
Uh and then of course all of the people
associated with the treasure hunt. Uh
Justin and Scott, the director of the
show, Jared, Cynthia, so many other
people that I'm just not familiar with
yet. And if I would go, I'm sure we'd
leave with a ton of friends there.
That's the beauty of these things. Thank
you very much. It was a great show. I
want to thank Emma once again not only
for coming in, but for picking up the
slack of Justin wasn't able to make it.
I can't tell you
>> me owes me. Don't worry. I will make
sure he does.
>> Yes, I really appreciate you coming on
spending so much time. I'll let you go
so your throat is done. And I'll make
sure to mention it again on our next
week's show to pick up those tickets,
the Seeker Summit.
>> So much.
>> I hope it's super duper successful. And
I can't wait to see all the videos of
how it turned out. Thank you so much for
having me. Have a great day, guys. Thank
you, Emma. Emma, you have a good one.
Bye-bye.
All right, Doug. There it is. The Seeker
Summit event. I'm really excited. I wish
it was any other weekend because the one
event that you know, we don't like to
miss, the Show Me Hunt, I couldn't miss
that for the world. But uh and the Show
Me Hunt sold out. So, it's not like I
feel like there's competition at this
point.
>> Right. Right.
>> Now, if you you know, if you're a
detectorist and you didn't get your
tickets to Show Me,
go out to the Seeker Summit. Listen,
you're going to meet some great people.
You're going to have a lot of fun. You
might win tens of thousands of dollars.
And you might get clues to get the two
million dollars.
So, um I'm I'm super excited. Brie, come
on. Brie's not Brie's not supposed to
send me super chats. Nokta rocks,
period. Good luck at your event, Emma.
Looking forward to seeing you soon,
Jason and Doug. Thank you. Yes, Brie
will be out for our coming up event,
Doug. Come out swinging. Pretty soon.
>> We had Robert on. Yes, Brie will be up
on the stage with us giving out some
prizes. I can't wait to see her event. I
don't think we've seen her in over a
year. So, that's going to be really
exciting.
Uh I don't know uh Brie if we heard from
all the ticket winners, especially the
last one that had the
goofy name. Um
We give what we could. Hopefully they
they'll reach out. I'm glad we got some
people that are picking them up. And I
believe all of the physical prizes were
claimed.
And they all had US zip codes. So,
they'll all be going out between uh Ryan
and Mark uh in the next couple of days.
Make sure you email me
quarterhoarder@yahoo.com
uh name, address, phone number, and I
will forward them to the right people.
Woo. All right, Doug. That's pretty
good. A day full of treasure. Um you
know, a little bit of a snafu with
Justin's flight. Yeah, a little
auspicious start, but uh got through it.
I'm surprised he even I'm surprised he
even said this was a good day for him
knowing he was like knowing he was like
landing from one flight going to to
another. I could have did it tomorrow or
something. Yeah. But I'm But I'm glad he
made it. It was uh it was uh super nice
to meet him.
Um So, what what do you think of the
whole thing, Doug? Buying this book,
trying to interpret uh the puzzles and
riddles to possibly find million dollars
in uh in treasure. Make Maybe we can
have him on in a you know, like a month
or so after this event. And you know,
really sit down and ask him some of the
questions he was unable to answer
because he was on the run. So. I'm sure
he's super busy. I mean, with the event
coming up next week. Yes.
>> what I said. In in a month or two, you
know, maybe. We'll have him on for a
full interview to get even more
questions about his hunt. Oh, thanks,
Sue. Sue Ramsey said, "Did your son make
it to Japan safely?" Yes, he did. He's
got two or three more days. You know
what he's doing today, Doug?
Um See if he won the contest. No, no,
no. You know how like over here like if
business people No, no, he's a business
major. So, he's going there for like a
his senior
uh it's part of a class.
But you know over here like business is
done like on the golf course, you know,
you golf and you're Well, over there,
they have these like I call it a
bathhouse. That's probably not the right
name.
>> geisha house. It's a It's a house where
it's like these giant steam rooms. And
everyone goes in and you get you strip
down naked. And you have communications
with other people in the nude in these
things. And I forget the name of it in
Japanese.
And I said, "Wow, you're really going to
do that?" And he's like, "Yeah, I want
to experience everything that they do."
So
>> Yeah. They They They like to see how
they measure up with the competition.
He's more open than me. I'd be so so uh
nervous about that. And I forget the
That's such a weird Everything over
there is just so Their culture is so
different than ours. But yes, he's
having the time of his life over there.
So, that's that's super exciting. FLX
Detectorist, thank you John.
We got to see him at Dig Stock, we
mentioned uh last week.
Um, we're going to we're going to get
ready to wrap this up though, Doug. My
throat is sore, sore, sore.
Um, I want to thank all the moderators
for really working overtime today. They
got a workout today, didn't they? Yes, I
mean, they were texting me the whole
time, keeping me updated with who was
there, who was not. Um, so I want to
thank them
again. Oh, and Bree's right, it's called
an onsen. Bree is 100% right. Onsen. The
Japanese thing that my son's doing, an
onsen.
And he said it like so matter-of-factly,
like, "What are you talking about, Dad?
You never heard of an onsen?"
I had no [clears throat] idea what that
was, but
yes, but I want to thank Bree, Metal
Bree Tecturist, for not only giving me
the Japanese naked bathhouse answer, but
for moderating all of the the winners
today.
Yes, thank you very much. Uh, Chris
Wicked Digger, another moderator, thank
you for all your help tonight. Uh, Hot
Mess Fishin, Alicia, thank you very
much. And of course, Teresa the Treasure
Hunter. Yep.
>> Thank you guys for all the help, you
know, there was I think there was I
don't even know how many prizes there
were with some people that weren't able
to accept the tickets, maybe over 10
drawings today, which just at some point
got whoa, a little a little
overwhelming.
Uh, I want to thank again, Mark and
Nokta Detectors for donating the
AccuPoint, the Pulse Dive, the Find X
Pro, and everything he does. They've
been very generous. Always, always. I
don't think Mark's ever told me no,
ever. Um, which is surprising, Doug. So,
I want to thank Mark and Nokta. And of
course, I want to thank Ryan from
metaldetectingshop.com
uh, for generously throwing in the
triple score last minute. Yeah. So, and
making a a grandiose prize, so thank you
again. Uh, if you need any gear, Doug,
make sure you check out
metaldetectingshop.com
and support the people that support us.
Yep. Um, otherwise, I'll say a couple of
hellos to the chat and then I want to
get out of here. I know there was 600 or
so, now it's whittling down, it's
getting late. 300.
>> but Barry Casey, crazy crazy digging,
Wendy Olson, uh, Mike Bomhoff, former
winner, Mike Bomhoff. Uh, Eric the Cape
Cod Father is here, our good friend.
Wish Upon a Beep. Again, FLX Detector
John, Sue Ramsey, Lindiana Jones, who we
gave a shoutout to earlier. There's our
good Lynn.
Who is going to be out at the um
I forget the name of Honeybrook,
Albersen.
I think you're Oh, I got it. Look at
that, Doug. Look how fast I can be. The
Albersen Antique Show this weekend. Yep.
>> want to get out there and support Lynn.
Uh, Tommy Herring is here. 71 Vega Dave,
thank you. Again, Nokta Mark, who was
here with her all night long, I think.
All night long. Metal Detecting Shop
again, all night long. Thank you.
Hanging out. Amanda Collins.
Yes, 3D Bronze. Next time, what's this
one?
Next time you interview John Collins
Black let me know and I will send you
some replica Oh, that's very nice of
you. Thank you, 3D Bronze. I meant to
reach out to John to do a follow-up.
I'll probably do it another
maybe 2 months. I wanted to do it like
the 6-month mark, but I will. Thank you
very much. If you can email me your
contact info,
I'll do that and we'll plug your stuff.
Uh, I really appreciate it. Quarter
Hoarder, yahoo.com. Thank you.
Uh, Boo Monster, thank you for
mentioning my question. Was just being
silly. Listen,
when I do this, I say it, you know, to
my moderators, I've got six monitors
going on with windows and giveaways. If
I see a question, I just throw it up and
ask it, and sometimes the question isn't
pertinent, sometimes it's about a
conversation within the chat. Uh, it's
really tough.
But thank you very much. Uh, Magic Man
Texas is in there says That's not it,
that's Lynn.
Will there be a show next week? No, no
Thursday show next week. Doug and I will
be traveling.
Yeah, we'll be at the Missouri hunt.
Yeah. Um, so no, no show next week, but
we'll be back the following with a I
have no guest schedule for the
following, so we could talk about the
last couple of videos, as well as all
the shenanigans from the Missouri hunt.
So, but no, next week, uh, fortunately,
no, we'll be we'll be traveling again.
Uh, Come Out Swinging, then we see see
you at COS. Yes, Come Out Swinging will
be coming up soon, too, the second
weekend of April. There are still
tickets available. Come Out Swinging.
So, if you want to meet me and Doug and
Rich and Charlie and Lynn and Jessica
and Matt and Metal Bree Tecturist and
everybody, make sure you come out. You
got to go to the Come Out Swinging
Facebook page. I don't have that linked
available right now. It was in last
week's episode. There are still tickets.
I'd love to see you and hang out and get
you in the video. Hopefully, they'll
find something good.
Uh, will you and the crew be at the
Techny Heartland this year? Yes, I
believe so. I still
I haven't gotten the tickets yet because
I was waiting for one last piece from
Casey, but I believe we got the nod.
I will I'm 99% sure that we will be
there. 99.3%
sure we will be there.
Uh, but Doug, we're going to wrap it up.
I'm really tired, my throat is sore.
I'll give you your last words of the day
before we get out of here. Um, my throat
is sore, also.
You did a great job considering the word
we got 5 minutes before we went on the
air
that Justin may be late because he's
jumping
>> Listen. plane to plane and Listen, Doug,
I'll give you a little bit of an insider
thing that I do.
Be professional.
>> I and I blame nobody for this. Things
happen.
But whenever I have a guest come on,
>> [clears throat]
>> I always say, "Are you 125%
sure you'll be there?"
And in this case, you know, Emma
contacted me to have Justin come on. So,
then there was like an intermediary, and
I'm like, "Emma, are you 197%
sure he's going to be there?"
And Emma's like, "Yes, yes, I'll have
Justin text you right now to confirm."
>> [snorts]
>> Now, things happen. It was it's out of
control. Yep. But my one biggest stress
thing in doing this is when you have a a
guest come on and the guest doesn't show
up.
>> be there. We've had issues with the time
zones before, so now I'm meticulous with
emailing them, "It's 7:15 my time. You
live here. Here's a map. It would be
5:15 your time." You know, like baby
baby arms to make sure it doesn't happen
again.
Today was just listen, you know,
flights are late, that's how it works.
No one's no one's fault. But that snafu
threw me for
for quite a you know
>> A loop, yeah. a loop in the last second
when I had the whole outline of
questions structured for John.
But Emma really really did step in. She
was amazing, so I want to really thank
her. Without her, the show would have
come to a grinding halt. She really
stepped up. Yeah, she did. Uh, she did a
great job and that's why I know this
Secret Summer event is going to be
fantastic.
All right, Doug, I'm going to get out of
here. My throat really is sore. Again,
thank you all my moderators. Thank you
to Nokta. Thank you to
metaldetectingshop.com.
Thank you to Justin and Emma. Thank you
to Dog Take Dog for hanging in there all
night long.
You're right, I just thought of it and I
did and look, I instantly get yelled at
for it.
>> [laughter]
>> Um, yes, and again, no show next week,
we're back in 2 weeks, same bat time,
same bat channel. Uh, there will be of
course the Tuesday episodes we'll keep
pumping out. So, we're out of here for
the week. Thank you everybody for
hanging in all night long. Thank you for
watching, listening, participating.
And Yes, and hey, we will see you on the
next one.
Later. See you.

Sorry guys, he left.
>> [gasps]
>> Just kidding. Okay.
If we could put together a warm Seeker
Summit welcome for the one and only
Justin Posey.
>> [cheering]
[cheering]
>> Why don't you have a seat? Hi friend.
Hey JP, how you doing?
I'm doing good.
I'm glad to hear it.
>> It's a good day.
Are you tired yet?
A little bit. A little bit?
That means you guys have a better chance
of getting real clues.
That's what I was hoping for.
Uh we have Howard grabbing us a book
just in case we need it. So, he may just
run up here and hand it to us at any
moment. Is that your water?
It is.
Thank goodness. Okay.
I think that the best part of not the
best part, there's so many best parts,
but one of the most unique and coolest
parts of this event was
the Q&A with the votes.
So now, oh look at that, the delivery
system is here.
Uh so now, we're going to start
with the number one requested question
from everybody here with the most ups,
which means people wanted it.
Has anyone
located or correctly identified
the bride?
I'll answer this, but before I do,
there's
actually somebody I want to wish happy
birthday to. Hayden, if you're out
there, Hayden.
Happy birthday to you.
You sure you don't want to sing?
I mean, I'll stop. I'll pause.
>> people to leave early.
Um
has anyone correctly identified
>> Has anyone located or correctly
identified the bride?
Yes.
Oh man, don't you guys wish you'd added
a little bit to that so I could do a
follow-up?
Here's the follow-up. Who? No, just
kidding. Um
I agreed to not ask follow-ups, but
maybe at the end. You know, he's known
for being a little uncanny.
The second most asked question was, does
timing have anything to do with finding
the treasure? For example,
do you have to be at a specific spot at
a specific time of day during any point
following the poem in order to find the
treasure? 20 people would like to know.
Okay, one more time.
Does timing have anything to do with
finding the treasure?
For example,
do you have to be at a specific spot at
a specific time of day during any point
following the poem in order to find the
treasure?
That's an oddly specific question. It
seems very very specific to me, too.
Uh
what I will say is that um
the the
the element of
time, if it wasn't already obvious
through the Netflix series, is
is important.
That's fair. I mean, I think it makes
sense. You did touch a clock.
Right?
>> of time, there's actually something I
want to clear up.
Oh goodness. I have to get my notes
here. One moment.
>> lose your coin, though. Don't lose your
coin. Thank you. I'll set it right
there. Okay. Okay, speaking of time,
uh in the Netflix series, clearly there
are
some times shown.
And I feel that
there were a few Well, there were a few
times that slipped in that were
not by design. And so, I'm just going to
eliminate those specific times
uh to make things what I hope is
clearer.
I think Jim's going to fall out of his
chair.
>> [laughter]
>> There are two times specifically that
uh don't matter.
And
it's okay if you're off by a minute or
so. I know it's a little hard to tell on
that clock, so
uh at approximately 4:02 p.m.,
that does not matter.
And at approximately
5:26 a.m. or p.m.,
uh that does not matter, either.
I hope that helps.
I mean, how could it not, right?
I also have uh some updated statistics
that people may or may not be interested
in.
>> You know I love a good statistic.
So, I think the last time I sent this
out, boy, I don't recall when it was. It
was
pretty early in the hunt. And I I posted
some stats, and I'll read them off here
for a refresher, and we'll talk about
what they're at now.
Uh the number of people that have asked
me to verify their solution
before heading out,
uh that was 24,101
people.
And the updated number as of
last night,
let's see if I can find the note.
Where did I put that note?
On your treasure hunt.
My goodness.
There it is.
Uh it is now at uh 277,428.
Oh my gosh.
Uh the next statistic,
uh the the number of people that have
conveyed to me they are 100% sure
they know where the treasure is.
Um I
to be fair, I I
I appreciate the confidence. That's
That's really cool.
Uh
it was uh 13,388
people.
And as of last night, it is now
119,644.
Half of those people have also told me.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh
the next one was uh bribe attempts. Oh.
That stood at 32.
We are now at
1,221.
I appreciate the effort, you guys. I
mean,
a lot of
>> [laughter]
>> a lot of enthusiasm. Um
uh blackmail attempts.
Uh that was at three.
We are now at uh 80.
Oh, wow.
Uh again, valiant effort. Valiant
effort. Uh
tracking attempts. This is a new
category
uh that didn't exist.
Uh that is at 19.
Oh, wow.
Uh search and rescue operations. Uh
unfortunately, people that have required
uh search and rescue assistance,
uh that was at one.
And uh we've grown a little bit since
then. Uh it's at 16.
People.
We We're smarter than this.
Um I think it's exuberance um and I can
relate, so.
Uh anyway, updated stats, there you have
it. There we go.
Well, we're not going to bribe you
today. We're just going to ask nicely.
How about that?
I appreciate the honesty. Uh I'm here
for you.
At which stanza does boots on the ground
become absolutely required? Meaning,
no amount of at-home research or mapping
can substitute for being physically on
site.
We're going to go to the book for this
one.
Sure. He's going to read be reading
that. Let me read to you.
At which stanza does boots on the ground
become absolutely required? Meaning, no
amount of at-home research or mapping
can substitute for being physically on
site.
It's kind of a big one, and it looks
like he might answer it.
This is a very specifically worded
question.
One more time. I want to make sure I get
it right.
>> have it as many times. I'll keep reading
it.
At which stanza
That means paragraph, just so you know.
does boots on the ground become
absolutely required? Meaning, no amount
of at-home research or mapping can
substitute for being physically on site?
Stanza four.
Write that down, Jim.
Hey.
That was huge.
Is checkpoint
is the checkpoint a physical object that
can be moved?
Yeah, I told myself tonight I'm going to
try to not punt on any question. Oh
gosh, I hope
This is um
>> [clears throat]
>> I'll say that it's it's not something
you need to worry about.
Okay, you don't have to worry about it.
But there was somewhere you said you
were going to clarify the checkpoint in
a in a recent interview. I think it was
X marks the spot, wasn't it?
What what specifically was I going to
clarify? Refresh my memory.
You said
Okay, I'll pull it up. Jim, text me.
Okay.
Is the Is the something we find along
the way something you placed there or
something that was already there?
Both.
>> [clears throat]
>> Oh my gosh, I love these answers.
Sure. Is the something you we find along
the way something you placed there or
something that was already there?
Okay.
Are the majority of the hunt items and
locations located in the same state /
county
as the actual treasure location?
You know,
I think about the Forrest Fenn treasure
hunts and pretty much any treasure hunt
and it seems that it's almost like
sports teams form.
I'm team Montana.
I'm team Wyoming. I'm team New Mexico.
Uh I've always found that interesting.
Um they are somewhat arbitrary lines on
a map.
Uh
So I I would just generally be less
concerned about the borders.
I mean it is beyond the map's edge,
right? That sounds like an edge.
Okay, I understand the photographs in
the book reflect your life and therefore
provide general context. My question is
were any of the photographs, not
illustrations, placed to function as
explicit clues, meaning
they contain specific deliberate
information meant to help solve or
interpret the poem?
I think they are useful, yes.
Oh my gosh.
I I can. I hope I'm not reading too
quickly. I'm trying to be very
I'm trying to annunciate a lot for you.
I understand the photographs in the book
reflect your life and therefore provide
general context. My question is were any
of the photographs, not the
illustrations, placed to function as
explicit clues, meaning they contain
specific deliberate information meant to
help solve or interpret the poem?
Okay.
Justin, you said "As hope surges clear
and bright" is the first actionable
clue.
You haven't specified, but what is the
last actionable clue?
Let me check. To the book.
See, I should have just bookmarked that
page.
Does that book have a bookmark in the
front? No?
No. Okay, sorry.
Uh which stanza has the last actionable
clue?
>> clue, but what is the last actionable
clue?
I don't want to cop out answer.
Uh it does somewhat depend and depending
on your interpretation, it's either
stanza
four or five.
Okay.
Okay, I'll behave.
Yeah.
>> [laughter]
>> For the first time in my life. Um you've
said the first Oh, wait, I just read
that. Did you make the container
yourself?
I
It's probably more accurate to say that
I
I made targeted
and deliberate modifications.
My gosh, these answers are so good.
Okay. Is the number 42 relevant to
finding the treasure?
>> [laughter]
>> Um
I I I guess the short answer is yes.
That's a pretty short answer. And I like
it.
Has any searcher or searchers been in
the small kitchen-sized area where the
treasure is hidden?
To my uncertain knowledge, no. Oh, okay.
Has the container been correctly
guessed, but the cipher just has not
been solved correctly?
There have been people who have guessed
what the
container is uh correctly.
Bravo. Not you, Jim.
You knew that was coming.
>> [laughter]
>> Do you have the ability to view
searchers if they are near the treasure?
I am going to punt on that question. Um
I'm sorry. No.
They want
>> Do you have the ability to view
searchers if they are near the treasure?
Punt.
There you go.
The first punt, boys and girls, that's a
lot of questions answered so far.
Does her face belong to the bride?
Does her face belong to the bride?
That sounded like Sandal. It did sound
just like Sandal.
Depending on your interpretation,
yes.
Uh but you know, there are actually two
different ways to interpret this and the
answer depends. So it's a no or yes. I
know that's a strange answer, but that
is correct.
Way to confuse us, JP. Way to confuse
us.
So I What I heard was yes, no, maybe so.
Yeah. Okay.
I work Okay, perfect. So good at
interpreting these words.
Um
Go ahead. Actually, I'm I'm going to
revise I I think it's probably fair to
just say yes there. Yes. Oh goodness,
there you go.
Okay, are the place and the sacred space
the same location?
Not necessarily.
Okay.
Does return her face imply a physical
rotation?
Guys are killing me here.
Don't you wish you didn't say that you
were thinking about not punting earlier?
Repeat it one more time. Okay.
Does return her face imply a physical
rotation?
Boy, that's a semantically challenging
question.
Welcome to treasure hunting.
And people might rake me over the coals
for this one later. Um
but the the
the technically correct answer is yes.
Okay.
Is the cipher contained in a single
section of the book or across multiple
sections?
Who says the cipher's in the book?
It's a good day.
Do you need to move a rock or anything
else to see the container and would a
flashlight be useful during the day?
Gosh, these are tricky questions.
We've gotten a lot better.
>> there's there's technicalities here that
I
uh that are a little I guess
slightly nuanced.
>> [clears throat]
>> I mean I suppose
depending on the conditions,
technically yes, maybe a flashlight
could be helpful.
It's hard to say. I mean
that that's a tough one.
Uh what was the other part?
Do you need to move a rock or anything
else to see the container and would a
flashlight be useful during the day?
Um
Uh something will be need Something will
need to be manipulated in order to see
the treasure.
Oh.
Are transition Are transitions between
clues
meant to represent movement across
meaningful geographic separation
or
are they simply conceptual steps within
the same area?
One more time.
>> I was about to say, should I read that
bad boy again?
Are transitions between clues meant to
represent movement across meaningful
geographic separation or are they simply
conceptual steps within the same area?
This is another one of those questions
that are toughly worded.
That's fair. Hmm, um
Gosh.
I feel like I'm kind of hosed no matter
how I answer this.
I wonder who that was. I can't imagine.
Thank you, cousin Lori.
>> [laughter]
[sighs and gasps]
>> Um
I mean, it's
Each clue
in the poem
is not meant
to convey
great distance.
Oh, wow.
Does the hole referenced in the poem
correspond to a place that actually
includes hole in its name? Ergo, Jackson
Hole or Big Hole River?
That's an on-the-nose question. Um
>> I got to punt that one. I'm so sorry.
Sometimes you got to punt.
How many searchers have sent you a photo
of the correct checkpoint?
Zero.
>> [sighs]
>> Oh my gosh, I want to do follow-ups.
Okay, you mentioned there's another book
that could help you find your treasure.
Is that book your grandfather's memoir?
If so, he speaks a lot about vantage
points overseeing people and places. Did
you incorporate that into your hunt?
Did I incorporate vantage points into my
>> about a question.
What if I read it again? Okay. Let's do
that. Okay, you mentioned there's
another book that could help you find
your treasure.
Is that book your grandfather's memoir?
That's really the first question of the
two here.
That is a little too specific, so Okay,
so then here's the fun follow-up.
I just lost the question. Hold on.
How could I lose a question when it's on
the website?
>> [laughter]
>> Found it.
If so, he speaks a lot about vantage
points overseeing people and places. Did
you incorporate that into your hunt?
Did I incorporate vantage points into my
hunt? Um
That's that's a weird one to answer,
too. I mean
the
There is a I guess you could say a
vantage point involved.
Um
But it's not that any of the clues are
necessarily
talking about that vantage point.
Okay.
I figured out why the question moved.
It's cuz apparently I just upgraded I up
arrowed it. Oh. Like how could it have
moved?
>> You up voted it. I up voted it, so it's
good.
Would a solver make more progress by
searching for hidden thematic or
symbolic rules governing the poem or by
treating it more like Forrest Fenn's
poem where carefully but largely literal
interpretation of each line leads the
way?
Probably roughly both in equal measure.
Okay.
I don't like that look.
If we don't hit 2,000
>> [laughter]
>> I know where this is going.
What are the two states you would have
eliminated?
Thank god he said he's not going to
punt, right?
>> [cheering]
>> Oh, boy. This is a tough moment for your
moment for your friend.
>> I I think better when I pace. It's going
to have to be
>> all the time you need.
>> [cheering]
>> God, I love you people.
>> [cheering]
[cheering]
>> Where are these bribers when we need
them?
Okay,
um
Who was that?
An easy and a hard one.
Uh
>> [laughter]
>> Ah,
all right, let's do this. LET'S DO THIS.
>> [cheering]
>> OKAY,
UH YOU KNOW, I
wasn't prepared for this question.
I really didn't think we're going to
make 2,000. Now it was a kind of a trick
>> He really didn't. He bet against me and
he won and now I've lost and I feel sad
about it, so I don't know what I've lost
yet, but I feel like I'm going to pay.
I'm glad you feel better.
Okay, uh first state.
Uh the the treasure
and the treasure is not in Colorado.
That's big.
>> [cheering]
>> And the second state.
Uh
I was not prepared for this.
But in your gut
there's probably a state
that would really help.
That you'd feel so good tonight when you
went to sleep about.
And so would we. All right, um the
treasure and all associated clues is
not in Oregon.
>> [cheering]
[cheering]
[cheering]
[applause]
>> If he just broke your heart, no he
didn't mean it. I Okay. I feel like it's
time for comic relief, so
um
I'm going to tell a short story.
Thank you.
And you can blame my cousin Lori for
making me
>> you asked me for?
Okay, never mind. I might have a
question later.
We're so excited about the possibility.
>> the story.
Uh
Netflix was coming to film at my house
and it just so happened that within the
prior month or so, as I was out of town,
my sprinkler system died. And it was
very hot. It was in Texas and uh
pretty much everything around my house
perished. Uh
not almost nothing was spared. And
the Netflix crew was still coming and
there was an
very good chance that they were going to
be filming outdoors uh around my house
and it was just kind of embarrassing,
frankly.
I struggled with what to do about this
and I hatched this genius plan.
Um
And that plan consisted of
This actually exists. Uh
um
a biodegradable
grass paint.
I've heard of it.
Uh and so I yeah, I whipped this up and
I thought, well, I'll just go out there
and
I
paint a section of the grass cuz who
does that, right? Uh and so I whipped up
the the um
it's like a pack you wear on your back
and kind of like a weed sprayer. And I
go out there and spray it.
But it was so hot out and so I waited
until like 2:00 in the morning. Plus I
didn't really didn't want the neighbors
seeing I'm painting my grass.
That's the level of my vanity.
And so I embarked on this
2-hour expedition to
paint the grass and and it worked,
right? And I had the
flashlight out. I'm looking at this and
I was like, wow, that looks really good.
So I went back in feeling very proud of
myself and I heard a noise and I
realized that
the sprinkler system that was fixed
earlier that day had just turned on.
And so with
no hesitation, I pulled out my phone and
it's one of those Rachio systems. You
can control it, you know, and I hit the
off button and it wasn't working.
And I thought, oh my gosh, this I'm so a
sweaty mess in the middle of the night.
All my
biodegradable paint is washing away. And
so I made a run for it and I mean run.
And I came tearing out the front door
and
Okay, well, I was going to leave that
tidbit out, but
>> was an important point. You should not
have left that out.
>> removed my clothes, so I
I have my boxers on. Um
And so I was in this full bore run and
for whatever reason in that moment, I
completely
forgot
about the large oak tree
branch that was right about head height.
And I hit that thing hard, like face
first, and kind of close pinned myself
and on the ground and
knocked me out for a few seconds,
knocked the wind out of me.
And I woke up and I looked like the
Jolly Green Giant. I was
I was covered in green paint and the
sprinklers were going on me and I crawl
over and turn it off. I'm like, "What
have I done?"
And I came back to the house and I had
this raging black eye. I mean, just I
couldn't even open one eye.
And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, Netflix is
going to be here in 9 hours."
And I recall if Jared is here, I think I
sent a picture to Jared saying, "Would
you mind if we reschedule?"
Uh which uh actually the timing ended up
working out for a number of reasons and
we did end up rescheduling, so it was
okay. Uh but yes, that is the the grass
paint story. So, there you go.
Do you still have that picture?
I I have the picture of my black eye. I
>> I think he should post it on his face or
on his website. I think that'd be fun.
Well, stranger things have happened.
We'll see.
>> [laughter]
>> Back to the fun and unbelievably
uncomfortable questions.
Are national parks ruled out?
Uh I'm not I'm not going to say yes or
no to that, sorry. Okay.
That just got bumped for some reason.
Okay.
The key to one direction lies in
another. Does this relate to the
asimuth?
No.
Oh.
Lucky number 10 on the checkpoint
questions.
Is the checkpoint essentially
to its core
and finally connected related to a
topographic feature?
Wow, read that one again.
>> I figured we were going to go for a
double on that.
Is the checkpoint essentially to its
core and finally connected {slash}
related to a topographic feature?
Let me take a look at that. Good luck.
And finally connected. That's really
tricky wording. I'm not quite sure how
to answer this. Um
I mean, probably the most accurate
answer based on how I interpret that
question is uh
yes, there is there is some implication
there.
Okay.
Can you tell us how you know a searcher
was near the checkpoint? Follow-up.
Does it have to do You want to Oh, I
thought you were going to answer in the
middle. I'm like, "Okay." Does it have
to do with the technology or similar
concept as layer five via personal
confession {slash} contact or something
else?
Shall I read that four more times?
>> Yes, please.
>> Okay, good.
Can you tell I'm going to read the
question and then I'll read the
follow-up. Can you tell us how you know
a searcher was near the checkpoint?
I'm not going to say the exact way, but
there are a number of ways that
people have conveyed to me where they're
searching. Uh that can be through
email, it can be through messenger, it
can be through Discord, I can see it on
a uh a Facebook forum, I can see it uh
in a number of different venues.
And uh some additional avenues beyond
that as well. And so, in one of those
hemispheres or spheres, uh
I have
come to learn that at least or there
have been more than one person that have
been close to the checkpoint.
The follow-up will help with this.
Does it have to do with the technology
or similar concept as layer five via
personal confession {slash} contact or
something else?
It is true to say that layer five has
some bearing on the treasure hunt.
Okay.
How many searchers
Nope, that's what we've already asked
that. It got moved down. Don't down
arrow, guys.
They're messing with you.
>> I know. I'm like, "Don't you know I'm
just trying to read like a big girl?" Um
is there a specific Nope. Is it No, I'm
just messing myself up. Is there a
significant clue visible if the treasure
seeker is standing 15 ft away from where
the treasure container is buried buried
or hidden?
Okay.
Is there a significant clue visible if
the treasure seeker is standing 15 ft
away from where the treasure container
is buried or hidden?
Tricky wording again. Boy.
>> We're becoming known for it.
The most accurate answer is
no.
Okay.
You're going to love this question
primarily because the answer is today to
date, we have sold 1,006
tickets between cash and the website.
If we don't hit 11:11,
what is the scene you would have
eliminated from Golden Greek?
I actually feel like we kind of did this
earlier and that is the
the lawyer's office, Carl's.
Uh that that whole scene
uh no intentional clues at all. That was
just uh
uh something that the crew did, you
know, the Netflix crew, Jared and so
forth, and I was had zero involvement
and zero influence on that whole scene.
Excellent.
I didn't think we were going to get that
one.
His realm. Is he living or was he ever
living?
That depends on your perspective.
Someday we're going to learn how to ask
that question.
When you ruled out a state, does that
mean it's ruled out for clues {slash}
stops along the way and or final
location or would it only pertain to the
only the final location?
That is an excellent question.
I'm going to read it again.
Good job, Rogue.
When you ruled out a state, does that
mean it's ruled out for clues {slash}
stops along the way and or final
location or would it only pertain to
only the final location? Who Who asked
this question?
>> That would be Rogue.
Was it?
Well, wherever you are, Rogue.
>> there. Oh, I see.
Um
I'm glad you asked. And I don't want
this to spin out of control in any way,
so
the when I say eliminate a state, I mean
that
you don't need to worry about it. Like
there are no clues in that state,
there's no treasure in that state.
It's complete elimination.
Oh, that's big.
That's actually a big big big one in my
opinion.
You've mentioned it took multiple trips
to inconspicuously hide the treasure.
Was this achieved in a single day or
multiple days? Summit rules say no
punting.
>> [snorts]
>> Summit rules, huh?
It's like Fight Club.
Fight Club. I mean, who who am I to
break Summit rules and and ask you to
punt when you want to?
The
all of the trips
to hide the
the treasure
were done within a 24-hour time span.
Okay.
Are the clocks part of the cipher?
Are the clocks part of the cipher?
>> Yes.
Are the clocks part of the cipher?
Are the clocks part of the cipher? Yes.
Okay.
I don't like that look.
Was the animal scene one that made you
feel free?
Oh, fear. Sorry, fear.
Was the animal that I saw
>> remember how you talked about in I
recall
>> Sandal's episode. Was the animal scene
on that
one that made you feel fear? I read that
wrong.
>> Yeah. Mm.
Uh no. The animal I did not I did not
get any sense of fear in myself by
seeing the animal, no.
Okay. Oh, and for those that don't know,
uh
I know there's a lot of interviews and
stuff out there. It's hard to keep up on
this stuff, so
>> [clears throat]
>> what I mentioned in the interview
actually with Sandal uh
is that
upon along the way of hiding the
treasure
hiding the treasure, I saw uh
an animal that I had never seen before.
And it was uh
a very surprising experience to me. I
felt uh
I felt
a lot of gratitude to see that. Um
felt to me like almost like a
once-in-a-lifetime thing.
And uh anyway, that's that's the
backstory. And no, I didn't feel any
fear
when I saw it. It was actually quite the
opposite. But did you feel free? No,
just kidding.
Um
during your interview on X Marks the
Pod, a question at
15 minutes and 8 seconds
of possible trinkets that might be found
along the way, you answered in the
context of trinkets, there is something
along the way that will help
significantly. Would you elaborate?
Boy, what else can I say? I mean, that
was pretty valid though. Like, they had
the timestamp, but
Um
wow, how how else to phrase this? Uh
it's it's pivotal.
It's pivotal to your
to your journey.
Are the ancient gates a very obvious
location, or is it possible to locate
the bride without being certain of the
ancient gates' location?
Hm.
I think it would be a little strange
for you to discover
the bride without understanding
the gates.
Is it possible for a searcher who is
actively working on the hunt and boots
on the ground for their solve to be at
the checkpoint location and not
recognize it?
I suppose that depends on how close you
are to the checkpoint.
I I don't mean to be obtuse.
Sorry.
I hear you say no.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh but it is the it is the correct
answer. Yeah.
Do your rules rule out railroad tracks?
Do the rules rule out railroad tracks?
Uh which rule in particular are we
talking about?
>> suspect the man-made part is what
they're going for. I see.
Yeah, [snorts] I mean, I think we I I
talked a little bit about this concept
of it's it's true to say that some
people could interpret one of the clues
as having a man-made implication
uh depending on how you interpret the
poem.
Um but it is it is um
uh I think based on how the rules are
described, uh railroad tracks are are
ruled out.
Yeah.
Do you need to move any rocks?
Do you need to move rocks? Any rocks?
Any rocks?
Uh I'm
I'm going to I'm going to punt on that
one. Oh. Yeah.
What pep talk would you give to a seeker
who is very close to either the
checkpoint or the location? I feel like
I know who asked this question.
Hm. Tell me who you think it is, and
I'll tell you if you're right.
At the risk of sounding cliché,
uh
the night is darkest before the light.
And if you are confident
in the location which you're searching,
I see little reason to stray.
Uh but I suppose it really boils down to
how you built that confidence.
Are there any clues in the Tucker poem?
That's a pointed question. Are there any
clues in the Tucker poem?
Uh I mean, I think a reasonable person
would say
that
that poem is helpful.
You've met Oh, see.
Would the clock in the documentary have
been as equally effective if the numbers
on the face were not Stop up roaring.
Were were not Roman numerals? Was the
using Roman numerals purposeful? I see.
So, just to rephrase to make sure I
understand, uh were the the numbers on
the clock
um
Were the Roman numerals helpful, or did
it matter?
>> It makes no difference whether or not
the clock had Roman numerals or uh
traditional digits in the American
culture.
Are numbers in the poem ever indirectly
encoded? Ergo, word play, homophones, or
hidden within words? And if so,
does this assist either directionally
and or
help with measured paces?
All right, we're going to have to parse
this one. Hold on.
>> Okay. Let's go by Let's go point by
point. Are numbers in the poem ever
indirectly encoded?
Are numbers
in the poem indirectly encoded?
Boy,
uh indirectly, that's a tricky one.
>> you options. Word play, homophones,
Yeah, yeah.
Well, so so Hold on. We're talking about
numbers, but now we're talking about
homophones. Are we talking about a
homophone that represents a number?
I mean, ergo.
It's a tricky question.
I'm not trying to be as too much of a
stickler, but I know I know how this
goes in the sense that afterwards people
will pick this apart and say, "You said
this." You know?
>> [laughter]
>> So, I want to make sure I get it right.
You want to hear the second part again?
Huh? You want to hear the second part
again? So, let me let me just break it
down a little bit, and I'll I'll try and
answer it the best that I know how. Um
Are there numbers indirectly associated
with the poem? Regardless of what the
question is, this is the one I'm
answering. Okay. [laughter]
Uh
and I think
uh the answer is is yes.
And
the other question about homophones and
so on, I'm not going to touch that. But
what was the other part? Okay, the other
part is and if so, does this assist
either directionally
and or help with measured paces {slash}
distance to the final locations while
boots on the ground?
Yeah, I mean, there there there is a a
distance element in terms of following
clues in the poem.
Um
but I'm not going to rule rule out
things like homophones and whatever
whatever else was mentioned.
>> options. It was like word play, hidden
numbers were hidden within words.
>> No, I think I'd like to keep those in
play. Okay.
>> Yeah.
I feel like you answered a big chunk of
this earlier, but there's some
specifics, so I'm going to read it.
There are multiple word and numerical
discrepancies between the book versus
the audio {slash} ebook within specific
sentences. Are these intentional? If so,
can you This is long. If so, can you
explain their significance whether
they're related to the cipher {slash}
container, physical boots on the ground
solve, or part of the armchair solve
prior to the boots on the ground? Here's
your examples.
Big hill mentioned in Idaho book versus
Utah.
Yeah. Doc's death,
1940 versus 1949.
Running down the hill, 6 and 1/2 miles
versus 3 miles.
Grandpa Fitzwater's age, 83 versus 86.
So, the
for those [clears throat] that don't
know, I I did publish an errata that's
on the website treasure.quest,
and it is a running tally of the things
that people have found that were
unintentional inaccuracies in the book.
And I the the purpose of that is to make
sure that people don't spend time on
things that don't matter, that were
truly just mistakes.
And so, [snorts]
I'd encourage you to look at that
errata,
and it's possible that people have maybe
emailed me new things that should be
part of the errata that I missed.
Uh so, feel free to re-email those. But
I I heard a couple specific ones here.
There was a question around the
discrepancy in my grandfather's age. Uh
that is that is not intentional. It's If
if it's there, it's a mistake.
And then I think you mentioned something
else around uh
Utah versus Yeah, in the big hill
in the book, it's Idaho, and in the
audio, it's Utah.
>> That was uh surprisingly an an audiobook
uh narrator error.
So, that is not intentional.
Doc's death, 1940 versus 1949. If
there's a discrepancy there that's not
in the errata, it should be. So, it's
not intentional. Last but not least,
running downhill, 6 and 1/2 miles in the
book versus 3 miles in the audio.
Hm, let me take a look at that one.
Uh that's interesting. I actually didn't
know that existed. But if if there is
that discrepancy, it is certainly
unintentional. Not intentional.
Okay.
Does one need to be at the bride to
identify her foot of three or some
distance away?
You
You guys are tricky.
One more time.
Sorry. Does one need to be at the bride
to identify her foot of three or some
distance away?
Uh
>> [sighs]
>> that's a hard to answer. Um
You
Ah, I you know, if if
I guess it does make sense. Let me take
one more look at it. Sorry, guys. I want
to make sure I get this right.
I should have looked at these questions
beforehand.
Yeah, you should have. Does one need to
be at the bride to identify her foot of
three
or some distance away? No.
There you go.
Okay.
When and where
was the first place Brandon joined you
on your boots on the ground search for
Forrest's treasure?
The first time Brandon joined me on
the Forrest Fenn treasure was
in Yellowstone.
And it was at
Iron Springs.
Does the location of the treasure truly
predate any of the locations you
searched for the first Forrest Fenn
treasure?
No, I have not specified. I was thinking
I hadn't heard that one.
Does the location of the treasure Oh,
wait, sorry. It moved again. Is the
checkpoint location visible in Golden
Greed?
Is the checkpoint location visible
in gold and greed?
No.
Okay. Ew,
goodness. Not specifically, no. Is
Shadowed sight from the perspective of
the searcher a location or a concept?
I'm going to have to look at that one.
Is Shadowed sight from the perspective
of the searcher a location or a concept?
Both.
This is so fun.
When you were hiding the treasure, you
said you saw an animal in the wild for
the first time. Which animal class did
it belong to?
Which animal class did it belong to?
Um
It was mammalian.
>> [laughter]
>> I almost said something so bad.
Um okay. What's your favorite story from
your grandfather's book, Where the hell
did you come from?
Golly, there's a lot of good stories in
there.
I like the story about the time that he
uh
confronted a poacher
at a cabin where they were having a
poker game.
And
due to some belligerence, uh he was
forced to bring this individual in and
he started acting up in the car
and they had a little bit of a a
standoff, if you will.
Uh I think just that really encapsulates
my grandfather in the sense that
he was actually small in stature, uh
especially compared to me.
Uh and he was very good-natured
uh until he wasn't. And there was a very
clear line and
you never had to guess which side of the
line you were on.
And uh I I just feel like that that
story kind of personifies
or really
brings that out uh in his character. So,
I I like the story.
If someone locates the checkpoint, is it
still available for others to find or is
it something that can be taken and no
one else can find?
Yeah, I'm going to punt on that one.
I think you might punt on this one, too.
Where exactly is the location of the
treasure?
>> [cheering]
>> Well, that's a question.
I mean, that one seems very dis-
succinct.
>> Can I see that? Sure.
Are you looking at who it is?
Where exactly is the location of the
treasure?
I feel like I got that one out okay.
I mean
I mean, how exact do you want to be?
I mean, it's on Earth.
Uh
>> [laughter]
>> um
I really don't know the right way to
answer this. I'm just
>> a really good video if you want me to
help you.
>> Oh, yeah? The American West. The
American West.
It's certainly not a place that you have
to go many miles to find.
Um
I think what I've seen in the treasure
hunt is
uh
you know, there there are a number of
people that are
are going pretty deep
into the wilderness.
And there are some people that are that
are certainly taking
uh risks.
And this is
really not something that you need to
do. And I I know it's kind of
subjective, like what what defines a
risk.
Uh but I do see people that
uh are
still repelling into caves and
and uh
uh looking on cli- you know,
cliff sides and
uh gosh, you you don't need rope.
If you need rope, then it's the wrong
it's not the right location.
Um
But yeah, I I know that doesn't at all
answer the question, but it's the best I
got.
>> [laughter]
>> I think that was pretty good
considering.
With many seekers in Tucson right now,
some may try to locate your brother's
memorial. How does that make you feel?
When I wrote the book and this Netflix
series came to pass,
I knew that was a risk.
And what I will say is that uh
the area in which my brother's memorial
is located is very rough country.
And
uh I do not suggest that anyone try to
go there. And I think as I've conveyed
before, the treasure is not in the
immediate vicinity
of that memorial.
Um
So, there's
there's in terms of the treasure hunt,
there's really no need to go to it.
Okay. Thank you.
In the poem Beyond the Map's Edge, are
there any references to specific Native
American legends?
I have not specified.
That's true, he hasn't.
When you say you don't need to hike more
than a mile to figure out where the
treasure is at,
is that from start to finish or just
when you're when one is going and
retrieving? What is the approximate
hiking distance from the beginning to
end of the poem?
Uh I think the way that that I
originally phrased it still stands. You
certainly don't need to go more than a
mile to figure out where the treasure's
at. You're not going to be going many
miles into the wilderness. This is meant
to be a
a somewhat kind of curated experience.
Uh so,
you know, I golly, you
I mean, seriously, if you're getting to
a point where you're needing to
you know, drink many bottles of water or
something like that, you're you're going
too far.
So,
um
it's actually, all things considered,
uh the I mean, I I did it with a broken
tibia. So,
uh I mean, I was on the mend, but
uh you you don't need to take any big
risks here. I don't think that
completely answers the question, but
that's the best I got.
Super close. Super close.
What's one mistake you see participants
consistently consistently make when
interpreting clues? What mindset shift
would help them improve?
Uh I think it goes back to what I
mentioned earlier in one of the
sessions, and that is uh
it might behoove people to
uh
take a Matt stance, Matt the editor. And
what Matt mentioned is
I
he took his treasure hat off, right? And
he he read the memoir as as a memoir.
And no, you certainly don't need to read
the memoir to find the treasure.
Uh but for people that are having
trouble and and needing more context and
understanding of me and so on, which I
think some understanding of me is
important. Uh the memoir is helpful, and
I think reading it as
a memoir is useful.
Uh
And certainly there there you can read
beyond that, and there I'm not saying
that um you know, more semantic meaning
of each of the the sentences isn't
important, but uh I think it might be
helpful for people to if you're getting
in deep and you feel like you're going
down many rabbit holes, probably the
best reset is uh
to just read it as a memoir.
I like that.
Is the hole in the poem the hint with
the man-made implication?
Let me take a look at that one. Yeah.
Is the hole in the poem the hint with
the man-made implication?
No.
What is your favorite childhood memory
with your brother Brandon?
Gosh, that's tough.
This is going to sound strange.
Um
we used to build forts.
Uh back
behind the backyard and uh
he was building a fort one day and I was
spying.
He didn't
didn't know that I was watching and
he was trying to build a bench
and he had set up this
kind of rickety ding metal metal thing
and he sat on it and it it fell over.
And it was the first time I heard him
curse
as a kid.
Uh
I won't repeat it here uh
but
he set that thing up it must have been
17 times and sitting on it and falling
over cursing and trying again and
that replays in my mind.
Um
and I think it really
it boils down to I think the resilience
that he had even at a very young age. He
was a very
stubborn kid. Huh.
But that's for whatever reason that one
really sticks out to me and it's funny
because I really wasn't involved. I was
just an observer.
Yeah.
>> [applause]
>> In an interview you were asked if you
feel you could have used a different
used a different words or phrase in the
poem for greater clarification. Is bride
one of those words?
Let me take a look at that one.
>> Yeah, I figured that was coming.
In an interview you were asked if you
feel you could have used a diff a
different words or phrase in the poem
for greater clarification. Is bride one
of those words?
Uh no, I'm I'm pretty pleased with that
one.
>> [snorts]
>> For an optimal solve
does the poem need to be read or
rearranged in any way other than how
it's represented on the website and in
the book?
Uh I'm not going to rule that out.
Oh goodness.
You mentioned earlier that the treasure
location could be accessed
30
Oh, this has got to be somebody from
another country. March 31st, 2025 at
8:10 p.m.
Would people also have been able to
locate the treasure at that time? They
did like British time.
I'm just going to reread this. Sorry, I
I'm just making sure I want to get this
right. Uh you mentioned earlier that the
treasure location could be accessed
March 31st, 2025 at 8:10 p.m.
Would people also have been able to
locate the treasure at that time?
Uh and I think the answer is if you knew
if you knew exactly where it was
I you you could retrieve it.
Um
I'm not saying whether or not it would
be
easy, but it's possible.
Is the bride a physical object like a
river or mountain?
Hm.
Uh the bride is something that is
visible.
What is closer to the treasure, the
checkpoint or where you figure out where
the treasure is at?
Oh my, let me take a look at that.
Please do.
What is closer to the treasure, the
checkpoint or where you figure out where
the treasure is at? Wait.
That's a
not quite sure I understand that
question.
I think the conjecture is that people
think you say the checkpoint is a
checkpoint in in one interview which
there's a few out there you said
that line. You said specifically the
line
where you figure out where the treasure
is at as though the checkpoint wouldn't
be that place.
Um
I'm struggling with how to answer this
cuz I I'm not sure I totally understand
the entirety of the question. Uh
but the you know that the the the
checkpoint is really a necessity in
terms of finding the treasure. You'd be
hard-pressed to
uh to
to get all the way without the
without seeing the checkpoint.
Yeah.
When discussing the passing of Brandon
in the documentary a B-roll clip of Red
Mountain in North Phoenix is shown.
Brandon was found in the Rincons west of
Tucson. Was the Red Mountain clip chosen
by the documentary crew as a fill-in or
was it chosen specifically for the scene
by Justin? That was B-roll that was
chosen by the crew. I didn't have any
influence or involvement in that.
Is the location where you hid your
treasure within 75 miles of the place
where you searched for the Forrest Fenn
chest?
75 miles.
Not 76.
Um
75 I searched a lot of places, guys.
Uh so yeah, I mean it's it's it's true
to say that at some point I had searched
for the Fenn treasure within that
75-mile
radius. Yeah.
Interesting.
Is the location where you hid your Oops.
How many hints clues hints/clues are in
the stories in the book and not
including the poem?
Uh I have to read that.
>> [snorts]
>> How many hints/clues
are in the stories in the book not
including the poem?
Uh I haven't counted them, but there are
there are several.
Uh and I also want to make sure that
people understand
the answer that I gave in the prior
question
because when I first heard about the
Fenn treasure
I
I had a question for Forrest in terms of
he said it was hidden in the Rocky
Mountains and my question was is it any
Rocky Mountain or is it the official
Rocky Mountains?
And so
that led me down a whole other rabbit
hole and thinking that my gosh, it might
not actually be in the Rocky Mountains.
Uh so
I guess what I'm saying is I don't want
someone to get the impression that
necessarily I've you know eliminated a
bunch of states or something like that.
So
Yeah.
>> [snorts]
>> Does "I wait for you to cast your pole"
refer to a fishing pole?
I have not specified.
Is the hunt 24/7 accessible year round?
Um
is the hunt 24/7 accessible year round?
I mean I suppose that would depend on
your definition of accessibility, but it
would be possible.
Is double arcs on granitable the clue
with the man-made implication?
Hm.
Uh punt.
Yeah.
Do you need to get your feet wet to
obtain the treasure?
You don't have to.
I have so many follow-up questions.
Is there a time travel element to the
hunt?
Sorry, time travel?
Boy, that would be cool.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh not to my knowledge. No.
Is all footage in the Golden Greedy
documentary that you wished to be in the
documentary actually in the documentary?
Yeah, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a
scene that didn't make it. Um there were
I got I feel like I got really lucky.
The universe was in
in my my corner that
that day when it came together because
uh I everything that I really wanted to
be included got included.
Not sure how to take this one.
The latest bribe
a wrinkled $20 bill and I will take a
picture with you. 10 square mile area is
good enough. Don't want to be greedy.
Um okay.
>> [laughter]
>> Uh
I don't know what to
what to say [laughter] to that one. I
too don't even know what to think about
that one.
Do the states you've chosen Oh, the
people who Do the states you've chosen
for the summit event have anything to do
with the treasure where the treasure is
located?
Well, I'm certainly not going to rule
them out. Uh there was a lot of things
that actually went into choosing this
location. For those that are not aware,
we were actually looking for a location
that had easy access for everybody that
was low cost, that had a preferably an
international airport. You know, at some
point we had looked at
I mean, I think even a few people had
thrown around places in Utah and even
over in New Mexico. And then we also
talked to people up in Phoenix. I think
we got a quote for $83,000.
>> $83,000 what? I think the highest we got
was like 162. Yeah. So, not cheap.
Venues are surprisingly expensive.
And and so, that's how we actually ended
up in the Tucson area is because the the
price point is still pretty cheap for
everybody to come in and accommodations
were reasonable. And we were not
conflicting with the Gem and Mineral
Show, which is a huge huge thing here.
And actually, funny story, originally we
booked at Old Tucson Studios.
And I thought that would have been a
really fun venue as well. And uh
I feel like we got a little lucky in the
sense that we didn't expect this heat
wave this early. Yeah. And much of Old
Tucson Studios is outdoors.
But they actually double-booked. And so,
they had to back out. And
thankfully, the Expo Center was
available and the air conditioning
worked out great. So, here we are. I do
love it. I love the air conditioning.
>> [snorts]
>> Would a snorkel be helpful in this
treasure hunt?
Would a snorkel be helpful? Wow.
Sounds dangerous. No.
A vehicle snorkel or are we talking
a human snorkel? But
They did not specify.
>> Words matter.
I'd say generally no.
If you're going snorkeling, please just
and looking for the treasure, just
don't.
>> [laughter]
>> Not needed.
Has the third stanza of the poem been
solved? Let me take a look.
I want to make sure I get this right.
Third stanza. In Ursa East
his realm awaits. His bride stands
guarded at ancient gates.
Her
foot of three at 20° returned her face
to find the place. A part of this stanza
has been solved.
Yeah.
At least part.
Has anyone figured out where or what the
hole is in the poem?
Yes.
You said that up to halfway of the
second stanza of the
Pretty much you just answered this. But
I'll read it anyway. You said that up to
halfway of the second stanza of the poem
has been solved. If so, can you say how
many more clues have been solved?
You know, it's
different clues Some different clues
have been solved from different people.
You know, if I look at the
say the the person that I'm aware of in
the world that has solved the most
of this, I would say that they've solved
at least
at least six clues.
Justin, how exhausting is it to have
cryptically cryptically Wait. How
exhausting is it to have to cryptically
answer question after question about
your hunt? Will you miss that or be
relieved after the hunt ends?
Huh.
You know, I
these [clears throat] Q&A sessions are
are kind of interesting to me cuz I
I do like to think on my feet and it's
it's it's kind of a fun challenge to
make sure that I answer this the best
way that I know how.
Um
But yeah, I mean, I suppose over time it
gets a little little taxing at times,
but I'm still having a lot of fun with
it and I hope you guys are too.
>> [applause]
>> Have you ever seen a wolverine in the
wild?
Was that Cynthia?
Yes, I have.
Yes.
Is Shadowed Sight from the perspective
of the searcher a location We already
have that. They got down arrowed.
I guess they didn't like that question.
Ooh. Do you have a solution for the
harmful effects of data centers? How do
we balance technology and nature? Wow.
Uh
That's different. I like it. Uh so, I
actually think data centers are a very
temporary problem.
And what we're seeing right now is all
across the country, there's these land
grabs and we're seeing a lot of concern
about these big data centers rolling out
and all this energy that they're going
to be using.
And it's true. It's that is concerning,
but
I maybe have a radical viewpoint on
this, but I think within the next 5
years we will actually have the world's
first data centers in space.
And that actually solves our problems in
many regards. One is that it's optimal
temperatures for data centers. You don't
have to worry about the heating problem
that we have right now, which is sucking
up so much energy.
And if you think about it, with the sun,
we use less than 1 millionth of a
percent of the sun's energy today.
And if we are in space
with
appropriate technology, we can harness
much more of what the sun has to offer.
And so, we solve the energy problem
almost overnight. And then the only
thing left in space is how do you
transmit the data back to Earth. And it
turns out lasers are pretty good at
that. And we actually have the
technology to do that now. So, I think
within the next 5 years it will be a
solved problem. I know it's very
concerning right now.
But I think we're we're right at the
inflection point of solving that.
>> [applause]
>> I love how when you talk tech, you get
so enthusiastic.
Okay, are there multiple meanings to
Castor Pollux?
I think people can interpret it in
different ways, but there's only one
correct interpretation.
I heard that.
Which one?
>> [laughter]
>> Sorry. You have said that there are no
clues in the legal section. Is it
correct then that the Angsar is not a
clue?
Yeah, so turns out that Angsar is in the
legal section, isn't it? Um
I
I think the fairest answer is that
the Angsar itself that appears in the
legal section
that that particular symbol is you can
you can rule out because it's in the
legal section. And for those that don't
know, at some point somebody asked me to
eliminate I think a chapter where um
where there are no clues. And so, I
mentioned probably the the the best one
to eliminate is the legal lowdown.
There's no intentional clues that I
recall in that chapter and there's a
little Angsar symbol that those are
familiar with
that resides in that chapter. And that
very specific symbol is not
Yeah, I mean, it's it's okay. You don't
have to worry about that.
But also pay attention to that chapter.
Huh.
Yes, please.
How long of a period did you go without
seeing a person when you were headed to
the final location of the treasure?
Yeah, so when I went to hide the
treasure, it
turns out it's actually really hard to
be anonymous and private in the US.
Even very simple things like driving to
the store.
It's not easy because you have a license
plate and that license plate, there are
many different cameras that see you
along the way. And so, there is a record
that develops.
So, anonymous travel is very hard and I
really wanted to be seen by the least
amount of people possible. And so, my
route was convoluted.
It was very deliberate and
very taxing, you could say.
And I did it twice. And the first time
was that kind of a dry run to make sure
I kind of got the kinks worked out.
Um
But
overall, extremely few people ever
saw me along the way.
And that's for a multitude of reasons.
And in cases where people did see me, I
was actually in skies.
>> [laughter]
>> That helped.
Do I need a wizard staff during any part
of the hunt?
Every journey needs a good walking
stick.
Before we go on, I want to tell you that
it's 7:08.
Should we I can't remember what Jam,
what was the How long were we supposed
to go to?
7:40?
20. So, we have 12 minutes. Okay.
>> are troopers. I feel like I'm putting
everybody to sleep here.
Yeah, they I can't believe this whole
first row is not out cold.
Um if you've made a tangible progress,
is the map in the book still useful or
is it most useful in the beginning of
the hunt? If you've made tangible
progress, is the book and Is the map in
the book still useful or is it most
useful in the beginning of the hunt?
I think it's a good I think it's a good
primer.
Yeah.
What are you willing to elaborate about
the structure logic {slash} logic of the
poem as it guides you through the clues?
There's nothing that I'm aware of that
needs clarification right now.
Dang. Okay. Thank goodness.
>> [gasps]
>> Say and answer a question you're shocked
no one has asked pertaining to your
hunt.
And answer.
That is a good one.
Boy.
I mean, I can think of a lot of
questions.
I'm just trying to decide which one.
You're going to love the next question.
Huh.
I mean, you know, at this point in the
in the in the treasure hunt, when I say
that you know, I can think of a lot of
questions, many people have asked many
questions. And so, I'm I'm hard-pressed
to say
uh
Boy, this is a tough one, guys. Hang on.
Give me a moment.
I need to pace again. I'm sorry.
>> [laughter]
>> Walk the size of a kitchen.
Mhm.
Sure, I'm glad to read it.
Say and answer a question that you're
shocked no one has asked pertaining to
your hunt.
So, basically, they're asking him to
pick a question and answer it, but he
hasn't ever had it before.
You like that clarification? I I mean, I
really like this. And I mean, I can I
can think of actually one very specific
question that would be extremely useful
to ask, but
if I pose it to myself
uh
It's actually something I can't pose to
myself. Um
but I know somebody actually out there
probably already knows the question.
Um
and I'm keeping an eye out for it. So,
we'll we'll stay tuned on that one. But
I I uh I can think of a question.
I'm sorry, I can't I can't verbalize it,
though.
Okay.
This is Slow Stellar. We've asked you
and one other thou- and one and other
thousand questions.
What are three to four different
questions you would ask a seeker of your
treasure that could help them understand
the journey you've created and have
embarked upon? If possible, please ask
us at least one question related to
boots on the ground, one related to the
book, and one related to the poem, and
one related to Golden Greed.
Holy cow. Let me take a look at this.
Slow Stellar. That was neither slow or
stellar.
What are three to four different
questions you would ask a seeker of your
treasure that could help them understand
the journey you have created and we have
embarked on?
Um I you know, I
I don't know if I'll do three to four,
but I'll say that um
in any for better or for worse
in any treasure hunt, there is I don't
like this term, but there is a creator.
And
every creator has motivations. They have
a reason for doing what they do
and something that that that drives
them. And I think
understanding that is important.
Um
no matter who is hiding a treasure. I
mean, if you think about Forrest Fenn
uh if you if you believe where the
treasure was found at Nine Mile Hole
he did it because of significance. And
if you read the memoir as a memoir, I
think a reasonable person who wasn't
even looking for treasure could read
that memoir and say, "Ah,
you know what? That's a that's a
recurring theme. That was important."
Um
and so, I'd say
uh intent and understanding a little bit
about the the person that hid it is
is part of is part of it. [snorts]
Um and I wish I I could say like there's
a way to hide a treasure where you have
no bias at all uh from your say your
upbringing or the experiences you had,
but
uh I I actually don't know if that's
possible. So, I'd say that just
generally, it's not really a question
you should ask, but um
a theme, I guess you could say. I don't
know if that helps or not.
Fenn specifically mentioned Nine Mile
Hole in his book
which the clues led to the area. Do you
mention the area for the first
actionable clue in your book or what? Is
your book written as more of a theme or
of the general area?
Oh, I have sorry, got to look again.
I mean, I couldn't read that twice.
Do you mention the area? I mean
I'm I think probably in the book I at
least mention the American West, so it's
in the American West. I mean, I you
know, it's interpretation here. I'm
trying. So, uh I'd say um the the the
very specific
area is is not mentioned, but
there are times in the book where
uh descriptions
uh pertain to the area where the
treasure is hidden.
The dedication feels layered and very
intentional. Could you walk us through
how it came together, when you wrote it,
the headspace you were in at the time,
what influences shaped it, what you
hoped it would convey, and whether it
was meant to acknowledge someone or
something specific or something more
symbolic?
Yes. Uh the dedication was actually
probably the last thing that I wrote.
Actually, that's not true. It was the
legal stuff.
Uh but the dedication was the most the
last meaningful thing that I wrote. And
it is layered and it is intentional.
Um
the headspace that I was in was a a time
of reflection and a time of what's to
come. I was on the precipice of things
really coming together. Uh I was
certainly nervous about it, but uh yeah,
it was really about reflection. And the
influences that shaped it uh and and
what I hoped to convey
I mean, I think it's pretty clear that I
am talking about a
a person
in that dedication. I
I'm not going to say who that that
person is, but it is somebody that is
uh
uh that is very special to me.
And
important in my life
and I felt that it was an injustice not
to do so.
>> [laughter]
>> You sent it back to me at the top. Silly
technology.
Okay.
Okay, I found it. Nice try.
Can you tell us more about your first
elk hunt?
My first elk hunt? Yeah.
Uh
my my earliest recollection is actually
going to the Mogollon Rim in northern
Arizona uh actually with my stepdad and
my mom uh
and we we camped there and I actually
didn't um hunt at that time. I
I had bow and arrow. I was really
terrible at it and I was probably I was
definitely too young and weak to even
have a compound bow, so it was
uh
more like just kind of shooting and
archery and target practice. Uh but my
my stepfather and the whole hunting crew
were there and and it was an elk hunt.
And that's that's the earliest
recollection that I have.
Could you talk a bit about the Wyoming
map you're holding in Golden Greed and
how those circled areas fit in your Fenn
solve, especially since they didn't come
up come up in your Dal or Dale article?
Oh gosh, yeah. I mean I mean, I looked
at hundreds of locations for the Forrest
Fenn treasure and I'm sure there was
some on that map that I had circled that
I was I was excited about and uh
boy, we'd probably be here all night if
we started talking about all the
locations that I searched, but uh there
were certainly some circled on that map.
Are there poem clues that reference or
are related to the sport of golf?
Uh let me read that one. Sorry.
Are there
poem clues that reference or relate to
the sport of golf?
I I haven't specified on that one.
Oh, wow.
We are in stre- instructed to walk near
water silent flight, round the bend,
past the hole. If the entire poem is
understood, is it intended we walk
without driving to the treasure location
from where from here, where we are
instructed to walk?
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm not going to narrow
that down, uh but you're not
that that should probably be the
it's probably the least of your concerns
at that point.
How deep is the dang hole?
Sounds like Forrest.
How deep is the dang hole? Uh deep
enough.
Following the rules of the area, can
your dog physically walk the
kitchen-size area without breaking them?
Can the dog walk the kitchen-size area
without
>> breaking them? Without breaking them.
I'm confused by the question.
>> dog physically walk the kitchen-size
area without breaking them? That is
literally the words.
>> without breaking the dog?
Gosh, that sounds horrible. Uh dogs
would be safe walking the area.
Yeah. That's good.
>> Oh, without breaking the rules. Oh, I
didn't hear rules in there. Did I miss
that?
>> the rules of the area. Oh, following the
rules of the area. See, this is a tricky
one. And the reason I'm hesitant to
answer these types of questions is
because things can change. And if they
change, then
uh
you know, people say, "Well, at this
point, you know, you said this. And why
did you say that?" And you know, I I I
just try and avoid the conspiracy or
discrepancies there altogether. And so,
that's generally the reason why I'm
hesitant about talking about whether or
not you have to pay or whether or not
you um
uh you know, dogs are allowed or
whatever rules pertain to that area
because uh
there's always a possible for change.
And it's actually, I think for many
types of land, uh
more
more uh likely than I think some people
realize. And so, I'm just I'm generally
hesitant to answer those questions.
Um
but to the best of my knowledge,
and this will be the last time that I do
this. Uh
to the best of my knowledge, based on
how the rules and regulations are today,
I I am not aware of anything that would
preclude you from
having your dog with you.
This is our last question. And then
we're going to have a little hunt.
Is East a portion within one Ursa, or is
there a West Ursa and an East Ursa?
Let me take a quick look. Yep. Is East a
portion within one Ursa,
or is there a West Ursa and an East
Ursa?
Huh.
I'm
You only need to worry about Ursa East.
That's that's the simple way to look at
that.
So, that's our question.
>> That's it. Okay.
>> [cheering]
>> Good job.
We did it.

MW Featured Question — July 2026
https://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-questions-with-justin-posey-beyond-the-maps-edge/

Q: Where did you attend Space Camp as a kid? What location in Alamogordo? ~ Cassidy K.

A: Space Camp, in my case, was not Huntsville. Mine was a hill in Alamogordo, New Mexico, home to the New Mexico Museum of Space History. There was no simulated liftoff. There was a diorama. There was a gift shop with maybe eleven items in it, four of which were rocks.

What Alamogordo lacked in NASA funding, it made up for in unintentional honesty. This was a town whose other major claim to fame was Trinity Site. The message a kid absorbed: incredible things happen in empty places, usually because nobody was around to say no. The desert has a way of telling you what it's about whether or not you're paying attention.

Yes, that's a black eye. It happened during what I've generously been calling a sportsball incident, the details of which I intend to take to my grave.
~Justin

Antlers Saloon live — Treasure Hunt With Us (Ema, JAM, Sandal)
Justin posted: "LIVE from Antlers Saloon! Ema, JAM, and Sandal!" with a youtube.com/live link on Threads, plus the cipher-solved announcement.

No public YouTube caption dump was available when this file was written (YouTube later blocked automated caption pulls; the live URL was not archived with a stable video ID in our sources).

If you have the VOD, drop the ID and we can pull captions.

Related: Treasure Hunt With Us Discord / channel; treasure.quest announcements for the cipher solve.

MW Featured Question — August 2026 (Childlike Wonder)
https://mysteriouswritings.com/childlike-wonder-august-2026-featured-question-with-justin-posey/

Q: What does childlike wonder mean to you? ~ Jamie

A: Childlike wonder is the stubborn refusal to let "because that's just how it works" be a satisfying answer. It's pulling a thread everyone else walked past.

Children don't experience gravity as a law. They experience it as a personal affront. That perpetual outrage at the ordinary? That's the thing.

The more accurate opposite is incuriosity: the quiet, organized tragedy of a mind that stopped asking why and started just filing.

Childlike wonder is the decision, usually poorly timed, to crouch down and examine the caterpillar while everyone else is already at the car.

What nobody tells you is that the caterpillar was always the point. The car was just where everyone agreed to be.
-Justin